163 réponses à ce sujet

[upinya slayin]

Atheosis wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Other then the collectors being the most brutal faction, I didn't notice any change in the other 3?
What do they mean by spike in difficulty?

The shield gate change is a big part of it.  That and the outright murder of FBWGG.  Oh and Dragoons and Bombers generally creating more disruption to camping strategies.  For truly skilled players the difference in difficulty isn't huge, but for those who were using camping and shield gating to just barely get by it's pretty huge.

EditL: Oh and there's the fact that nearly everything executes now.  That's a big issue for those who tend to get downed a lot.

The shieldgate is a wierd gltich that BW cna't pinpoint. its nto an intentional thing taht was added so i don't count it. BW can't even locate the issue. It sucks sometimes but its not part fo teh difficulty. you cna't nerf a game around a glitch.
FBW is a million times better of a map right now. I actuall enjoy playing it again. If you could only do gold with FBW and Geth then you shouldn't have been playing it in the first place.
Dragoons are a joke. they die easy and can be dodged. I wish i was recording yesterday when on gold my MQE tok on 3 dragoons in a small area and dind't get shot or smashed once lol.you dodge them like you would a brute. there hornet is mroe of a threat at rnage then anything else they do.
If you get downd alot the difficulty isn't for you ro maybe try a new kit?
if you had to camp to get by then the difficulty wasn't for you. I'm not talking down to anyone but if you play a difficulty taht you can't win on w/o using a cheap tactic only for teh rewards then you have no reaosn to play becuas eit s a grind and not fun then

You seem to be suffering from a case of "unable to see things from the perspectives of others".  Personally I have no real issues with the slight bump in difficulty (and really don't even think Collectors are that bad), but I think it's obvious that the game got much harder for some people with the changes they've made.  Dragoons are obviously tougher than Guardians.  The farming of White is no longer viable.  Bombers and ungrabbable Pyros make camping against Geth much tougher.  The examples are there for you to see if you simply acknowledge that many people who don't have your skill have been regularly beating Gold for months and now can't.  Seriously dude, you need to develop the capacity to see things from other viewpoints.  If you can't do that then discussions become pointless, and generally devolve into little more than arguments. 

I can see other peoples point of view. I said they shouldn't make any changed to silver or bronze. they could even make them easier if they want to. its fine by me. What your missing is that nobody is entitled to be able to play gold and platinum.  The are suppsoed to be difficult. only good players should be playing gold and really good ones playing platinum.

Are dragons tougher then guardians? Of couse, guardians are the weaked thing if you have any AP, or lash, or pull etc. but they seem to spawn in palce of pahtoms and are much easier IMO then phantoms making ceberus easier as a whole.

The fact you can't expliot the AI for an entier match isn't making the game harder. its called fixing an expliot that shouldn't have exosted. BW never intended for people to sit in one spot and not have to mvoe for an entire game. I'm sorry if people think tis harder becuase they can't use teh FBWGG trick any more, but the truth is they should have been happy tp get all the credits they earned cheaply.

once again i can see other peoples points. I just don't agree with it. The game isn't harder becuase you can't sit in 1 spot and expliot teh AI using cheap tactics. I'm not gonna feel bad for somebody who can't do taht anymore. They should be happy. they'll have more fun running around in silver then they ever would ebhind teh FBW counter. I will feel bad if somebody was a able gold player who did run around and use soft cover and now can't do it, but i've yet to find someone saying that. eveyrone complaining is becuase they cna't exploit the enemey.

[TommyNg]

no , i can still solo gold , dont change that

[Xaijin]

Master Che wrote...

Suirieko wrote...

Quite honestly, ever since the last DLC, the game did feel way harder than before.

I noticed it immediately when I played as an adept and when I played smaller maps.  The number of bosses spawning on Gold seems to have exploded!  In one match I was seeing Banshees coming into the room on Dagger 2X2 one right after the other with Brutes coming up the other side.  It was ridiculous!

uh, gold has always been that way. It's what made open hacks on glacier and giant and london such a glorious pleasure.

Modifié par Xaijin, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:14 .

[upinya slayin]

JAMiAM wrote...

Bioware, please do not overcorrect with reducing the difficulty. Yes, the game did get a little more difficult with the last patch, and the release of the Retaliation DLC, but that is a good thing.

People really should dial their pride back a notch or two, and realize that they might just need to dial down their difficulty levels if they can't play at the same levels they had gotten used to. New enemy types, new hazard conditions, and new map layouts require a learning curve. Suck it up, and learn the new tactics you might need to adopt, in order to consistently survive, at a lower level.

+1

[LoonySpectre]

I actually noticed the "feel" of the game returning to the pre-DLC. I feared to play Platinum at all due to all changes, but today I played one, and it went just like any Platinum I've been to (average scoring, sometimes dropping, and being a mediocre player in general).

[january42]

Simbacca wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

...Dragoons are a joke. they die easy and can be dodged. I wish i was recording yesterday when on gold my MQE tok on 3 dragoons in a small area and dind't get shot or smashed once lol.you dodge them like you would a brute. there hornet is mroe of a threat at rnage then anything else they do...

This!  I don't understand how people have been complaining so much about Dragoons.  When I see 3 of them coming at me, I think "ooo, three easy kills".  When they want to melee or smash they run straight at you, making it really easy to land a couple headshots (which usually kills them, they really don't have that much armor).  Smash is very easy to sidestep, just about an ability staggers them (more abilites than what work on most armored targets), and they die quickly.

Pugs complain because they tend to go to one area on a map and never leave it.  With the recent changes it has gotten harder to camp one area, necessitating more flanking tactics as was the developers original intent with gameplay.  They get tunnel vision trying to squeeze as many kills/points as they can in that one big cluster before their teammates (who have been firing at the exact same cluster the whole time, all with the same tunnel vision out of desperate point chasing) so they don't see the 3 Dragoons coming from their flank, the only time they're really a danger.

Yes Dragoons move very fast, this makes up for just how fragile they truly are.  If you see them coming, they're nothing.  And that's why people complain about them, because they are not used to keeping their head on a swivel, they aren't checking their surroundings every couple seconds like they should.  They feel it's 'cheap' to be quickly killed but something they didn't yet see.  They never think 'oh maybe if I wasn't staring in the same direction for the last minute...'

The problem isn't really an unintended spike in difficulty...the problem is an unintended spike in lag tolerance and the way the net code deals with it. All the new enmies are quite fast.

Minor lag turns them into teleporters, so it becomes basicly almost impossible to keep track of them in this case. I've been killed and execute before even getting the extend prompt.

Basicly, before minor lag was an annoyance. Now it causes the unintended spike in difficulty as you can't even use cover to compensate.

Try soloing a bit and then play some pub games you'll see what I mean.

[UpirNoir]

upinya slayin wrote...

JAMiAM wrote...

Bioware, please do not overcorrect with reducing the difficulty. Yes, the game did get a little more difficult with the last patch, and the release of the Retaliation DLC, but that is a good thing.

People really should dial their pride back a notch or two, and realize that they might just need to dial down their difficulty levels if they can't play at the same levels they had gotten used to. New enemy types, new hazard conditions, and new map layouts require a learning curve. Suck it up, and learn the new tactics you might need to adopt, in order to consistently survive, at a lower level.

+1

Wrong. People who played a certain difficulty on a regular and comfortable basis, should not be forced down. That makes no sense. I agree, that when readjusting the difficulty they have to walk a very fine line so not to overdo it though. But that is always the case with balancing.

[whateverman7]

JAMiAM wrote...

Bioware, please do not overcorrect with reducing the difficulty. Yes, the game did get a little more difficult with the last patch, and the release of the Retaliation DLC, but that is a good thing.

People really should dial their pride back a notch or two, and realize that they might just need to dial down their difficulty levels if they can't play at the same levels they had gotten used to. New enemy types, new hazard conditions, and new map layouts require a learning curve. Suck it up, and learn the new tactics you might need to adopt, in order to consistently survive, at a lower level.

basically...but this is the bsn, the land of the greatest players that never have any trouble in the game and can speedrun plat blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back; so if they're struggling, it must be something wrong with the game

once again, the vocal minority wins and bw is gonna make a change that isnt neccessary...great job bsn, keep up the good work

[D Wrecks]

I think this "unintended spike in difficulty" stems from the relentless behavior of the dragoons, geth bombers making it near impossible to avoid the notorious staggercannons, and the Collectors being downright brutal. Dragoons need to slow down and have a little delay between their attacks; with the addition of the bomber, the stagger-centric geth need to become less stagger-centric (and hunters need to stop being able to kill you while staggered); and the the praetorian's laser shouldn't be able to ignore walls.

[jakenou]

I'm going to stick to gold-reapers with the 1 or 2 characters I feel most confident with for now. Somebody tell me when it's safe to come out, k?

[MinatheBrat]

The only difficulty change that I see as a "problem" are the instant death occurrences where it 'appears' that the shield/healthgate wasn't working.

The dev's say that the gates are working, which means there must be another reason we're getting that effect and that's -hopefully- what they're working on. I appreciate them keeping us informed on it.

I like the new enemies. My 2cents.

[CapitateGoose]

Master Che wrote...

http://social.biowar...527105#14529186
I would like to say, "THANK YOU" for this. 

Chris Schanche wrote...

....

Our efforts have mostly shifted however to seeing what changes we'd like to make towards fixing the unintended spike in difficulty. After implementing some of those fixes we will see what effect that is having if any on this issue and then reassess.

If fixing the issues includes:
1. Being kill in 2 shots on gold, by pretty much any enemy (played for the Tech challenge, I know Krogans may be OK, but I want to play other clasess too), 
2. Not being able to stay alive after reviving myself or being revived - (Voluses can make a difference here)
3. Not sure, but it seems the missiles no longer clear a full room - 1-2 enemies are left alive which brings us back to 2.

This cause me to have a very low rate of extraction on my usual gold/PUG lately, and a spike in using medigel/missiles - which seem not to help at all (I played wit no medigel, and actually it worked out better and avoided lot of frustration).

So if the fix includes these issues, a big THANK YOU from me too..

[Komrade Kaos]

Miclotov wrote...

You forget to mention the spawn behaviour with the only intention to trap you. :>

^ this!!! I feel paranoid all the time now!!

[drmoose00]

i had ~9 gold fails in a row last night. Many can be traced to the teamates with level 1-2 gold weapons, I am sure. But even so, I usually was about 9/10 gold successes no matter what b4, and platinum about 50/50. Now way way down.

what would have been ideal is if they created a more customizable difficulty, like the ability to add a certain % of friendly fire, or set the enemy sheild level to "extreme" or something. that way those (in the minority it seems) who are OtH and want the "extreme" challenge can find all they want.

[Ashen One]

People are always quick to point out enemy buffs, but ignore enemy nerfs.

Has anyone noticed how the Atlas can be staggered by gunfire now?

[D Wrecks]

▲ Yes, actually, and I think that should go away.

[brokdikdog]

hudder92 wrote...

So you haven't noticed enemies spawning right next to you then? I've not seen this prior to the last patch. Now it happens almost every game. And I'm not talking about one or two enemies.. I'm talking about whole mobs of them.

I had a few games yesterday where out of the blue, full health and full shield while I was hosting, I was downed. This was on silver and gold games. I was told twice by another player that he saw a husk spawn right on top of me and that is what downed me. I've also noticed a lot of spawning right next to me, or running around a wall and nothing is there but then immediatly you are surrounded by enemies and being hit until down. Had this real bad on giant when running toward the spawn point to get ammo. Turn the corner and you are safe, then you are being beaten.

Then last night on giant I was soloing it on silver. Wave 10, I'm already running up the ramp to the control room before wave 10 starts. As soon as I reach the door the game shows it's a hack obective in the control room. I turn to run in the door and the room is full of enemies. After fighting half of them off i use a rocket and start the hack. Then some enemies spawn in the hack cirlce and down me. I get up and rocket them since I still had my rocket out. The next wave of enemies come through the doors. I fight them off. Then about 3/4 of the way through the hack another spawn of enemies in the hack circle down me immediatly. I gel and get staggered and downed before I can get the missle launcher out. Gel again and get the launcher out but get downed before firing. Gel and fire the missile and immediatly the wave ended.

I've also noticed that enemies will go from 100% accuracy to being complete idiots. One game I have TC on and running toward the back ramp on giant when I get shot by a marauder over by the extraction zone. The next game i'm not even cloaked and I see 3 or 4 enemies shooting at a wall half way up the ramp I was about to run up. They pay no attention to me as they are all zeroed in on the wall and firing at it as they move towards it.

[scheherazade]

- The dragoons are idiotic, and they charge in straight lines.
I may have been hit by one once? They're a total joke, they make cerberus easier.
As far as I can tell, they ate into the phantom budget, which lowers the difficulty level substantially.

- The bombers are annoying, and far too durable for something that size, but their damage is meh'.
They haven't made the game harder, they made it more annoying - because they tend to zip around right when you go to shoot them - and you waste ammo.

- Sure collectors are harder than the other races, but they're new, so you can't say they are harder than they were before.

The only gripe I have is the amount of stun that geth have. It slows the action down, and just isn't fun.

Note : I never farmed FBW, so the FBW changes made no impact on me whatsoever...

-scheherazade

Modifié par scheherazade, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:40 .

[drmoose00]

Komrade Kaos wrote...

Miclotov wrote...

You forget to mention the spawn behaviour with the only intention to trap you. :>

^ this!!! I feel paranoid all the time now!!

actually this is a huge part of the difficulty increase. the spawn behavior is out of control and completely illogical. IMO if you clear a upload/data zone, the enemy should spawn at a clear "safe" landing zone, and not magically appear out of thin air right behind you. As it is now, uloads on gold or Plat are just crazy revive/gel fests usually. And with the enemy stagger (that about 80% of the enemies have now, it seems), it can be next to impossible.

[Xaijin]

1. "Newers" need to learn to effectively combat the new units before complaining about them.

2. Gold and Platinum should stay as they are.

3. Bronze should be easy.

4. Silver should be moderate.

5. People should not expect a multiplayer game to stay completely static over the course of its lifetime, because people will stop playing it. This is not a supposition, it's a fact, borne out by tons and tons and tons of data.

[Ashen One]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

People are always quick to point out enemy buffs, but ignore enemy nerfs.

Has anyone noticed how the Atlas can be staggered by gunfire now?

He always did get staggered by gun fire.

No, this only started happening after Retaliation.

Air Quotes wrote...

And also did the "cover face...umm canopy" animation

That animation has always been present, but I'm talking about the stagger animation that plays when you hit an Atlas with Phase Disruptor or Kroguard charge, for example....

Except I've done it with a Striker, and again with a Saber.

[OuterRim]

Ashen Earth wrote...

People are always quick to point out enemy buffs, but ignore enemy nerfs.

Has anyone noticed how the Atlas can be staggered by gunfire now?

I have noticed this too, but them being sped up by 3x and now doing DOT hardly balances the unit out. In fact its further proof that the game has been tweeked to be harder. I kinda like the speed increase in them though.

---

I think the biggest jump in difficulty seems to be more noticable in silver. I use to be able to solo silver without using a gell. Now it takes me 2 or 3. The Dragoons are a nuisence, but easily negated due to their animation cues. I actually think its made playing cerberus easier on gold, as there seems to be less phantoms (a problem unit for me).

Modifié par OuterRim, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:48 .

[Xaijin]

High enough force or gunfire would always stagger an Atlas, even before retaliation, it just required things like two separate proxy mines detonating at once followed a by a vanguard charge or giant weapon damage spike, in addition to the armor plates destruction.