435 réponses à ce sujet

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

[Noelemahc]

Xilizhra wrote...

There are fates worse than losing.

No, really, there aren't. Not here. Even if it's a trick, the result will be the same no matter what I do, so I really don't have anything to lose. And no, I never bought that conventional victory was possible.

Do you maybe think the two bolded statements are interdependent in your case? Therein lies the point of differing viewpoints.

[drayfish]

Xilizhra wrote...

drayfish wrote...

For me it was in no way about Shepard. She was already dead - bleeding out, she'd given her all. It wasn't her sacrifice I (or she) was concerned with. At that point it was the spirit of the universe.

Shepard had gathered the largest force in the galaxy, a unified armada, fighting for its very survival, for the right to live, to prove themselves worthy of the gift of existence. For her to then throw that away for them - to homogenise them into a dreary genetic blah; or to take their freedom away by dominating them as an uber-being (no matter how noble her intentions); or to weigh up the value of lives like some sociopathic statistician (Geths do not equal Organics, so they can die) - she would do more than just throw herself on the fire, or even sacrifice some of her own men, she would have killed the spirit of communion and faith that had gathered them all together in the first place.

She would have become a Reaper herself, judgementally imposing her will on everyone, and devaluing the sanctity of life that everyone thought they were fighting for.

By Refusing she was holding firm to her faith in that conflagration of noble spirits, the belief that unified they could do mighty things because they held respect for others most sacred.

And again, just because the writers wanted to belittle her for holding firm to that belief is on them, and their vile cynicism.  Not her.

Then TIM was right about your Shepard: idealism did doom the galaxy in that case. When you break away from seeking the best possible outcome into doing things for the sake of the ideals themselves instead of the life they're supposed to serve, then they become weights dragging you and everyone around you down. The "spirit of communion and faith" will be just as killed if everyone who was feeling it is dead, plus every other possible spirit and life that may have come out of them.

Are you seriously quoting The Illusive Man as evidence for why my Shepard was a fool to have faith in the inherent good of the universe?  The Illusive Man?  Who believed that he could bargain his way around morality to suit his purpose?  Who conceded so many ethical barriers that he brutalised and terrorised innocents, and eventually lost himself down a spiral of delusion that served his enemy's whim?

He is the posterchild for why believing you can compromise your beliefs utterly and still serve your fellow man is a delusion.

If that is the counter argument then I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

And still be demoralised utterly when the Bioware writers stabbed that hope down.

Modifié par drayfish, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:41 .

[Shinnyshin]

Xilizhra wrote...

There are fates worse than losing.

No, really, there aren't. Not here. Even if it's a trick, the result will be the same no matter what I do, so I really don't have anything to lose. And no, I never bought that conventional victory was possible.

Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle.  Sounds pretty unlikely, yes.  But it sounds MORE likely than the anti-organic AI just giving you the keys.  And there's actually some groundwork laid for it, slim though it be.

I get that people are desperate, but from your Shep's point of view...there are DEFINITELY ways in which accepting the AI's options can make things worse.

P.S. That actually was a possiblity I considered when I first saw control.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:41 .

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...I don't care what the Catalyst's nature is, all I want to do is stop the harvest. If I die from one of those choices, the result is the same as me dying from not making a choice: the galaxy is doomed. I have nothing to lose anymore.

Good grief - why would you be willing to wager the future of the galaxy without first understanding the Catalyst or its solutions?

Because refuse absolutely would mean losing. It better to try something with the chance of stopping the reapers then trying it in away that has no way of doing so.

Yeah, you're metagaming again Dreman. If you have no case to make beyond 'it was worth a try', don't bother.

No , i'm not. Even with out metagaming we know that we can't beat the reaper conventinally. It we list everything in the ccodex and inthe last 2 games, it clear we can't.

If we refuse we will lose.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a conventional victory was any less likely that what we got? To be clear, the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Which is to say nothing of the bizarre justifications being put forward for Control in this thread.

Of course it was not likeley. The first reaper we fought took on 3 fleets  and had to be stunned to kill. And then we are told a fleet of Ships like that, that dwarf the number of all the ships in the fleets of the entire galexy combine is coming. And then we are told and shown they an make near endless ammounst of clone husk troopers and turn our own in to there oun troops.

Sorry, but there is not one thing in the ME u that even hint to conventional victory being possible. Sorry, we can't beat the reapers conventionally. Let go of that notion.

[dreman9999]

Shinnyshin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are fates worse than losing.

No, really, there aren't. Not here. Even if it's a trick, the result will be the same no matter what I do, so I really don't have anything to lose. And no, I never bought that conventional victory was possible.

Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle.  Sounds pretty unlikely, yes.  But it sounds MORE likely than the anti-organic AI just giving you the keys.  And there's actually some groundwork laid for it, slim though it be.

I get that people are desperate, but from your Shep's point of view...there are DEFINITELY ways in which accepting the AI's options can make things worse.

P.S. That actually was a possiblity I considered when I first saw control.

"Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle. "

No, you do control the reaper but you do with them want you want. Nothign say you use them for ill or have to use them at all. You can let organics rule themselves.

[dreman9999]

Noelemahc wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are fates worse than losing.

No, really, there aren't. Not here. Even if it's a trick, the result will be the same no matter what I do, so I really don't have anything to lose. And no, I never bought that conventional victory was possible.

Do you maybe think the two bolded statements are interdependent in your case? Therein lies the point of differing viewpoints.

But out side of the crucible all you have left is conventional warfare. Which you know you will lose by doing.

[dreman9999]

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

[Noelemahc]

dreman9999 wrote...

Of course it was not likeley. The first reaper we fought took on 3 fleets  and had to be stunned to kill. And then we are told a fleet of Ships like that, that dwarf the number of all the ships in the fleets of the entire galexy combine is coming. And then we are told and shown they an make near endless ammounst of clone husk troopers and turn our own in to there oun troops.

Sorry, but there is not one thing in the ME u that even hint to conventional victory being possible. Sorry, we can't beat the reapers conventionally. Let go of that notion.

1. Those fleets were not full-strength (only the human one was).
2. Sovereign had the entire might of the Geth fleet at his disposal. IT'S ON OUR SIDE NOW AND HAS BEEN UPGRADED SINCE THEN.
3. Neither Geth nor Reapers were in ANY galactic fleet handbook at that point. It was the first large engagement between Geth and organic forces EVER since the Morning War (and it was a ground war), and the first contact our cycle had with a live Reaper. ULTIMATE element of surprise, baybee. It's super effective.
4. None of the Council Race fleets had guns prepared to fight ships of synthetics.
5. Thanix Cannons. They penetrate shields.
6. Thanix Cannons. They cut armour like butter.
7. Thanix Cannons. They are standard issue on all human, Turian and Geth (if you played your cards right) ships by the time the United Fleet attacks Earth.
8. Thanix Cannons. They are officially declared as an anti-Reaper specific weapon in ME2.
9. Thanix Cannons. They aren't actually used in a single scene in ME3.
10. Thanix Cannons. They were deliberately retconned to make conventional victory seem impossible.
11. Thanix Cannons. Their existance was INTENTIONALLY IGNORED by the writers of ME3.
12. Thanix Cannons. Are you seeing a pattern yet?

Modifié par Noelemahc, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Shinnyshin]

dreman9999 wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle.  Sounds pretty unlikely, yes.  But it sounds MORE likely than the anti-organic AI just giving you the keys.  And there's actually some groundwork laid for it, slim though it be.

I get that people are desperate, but from your Shep's point of view...there are DEFINITELY ways in which accepting the AI's options can make things worse.

P.S. That actually was a possiblity I considered when I first saw control.

"Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle. "

No, you do control the reaper but you do with them want you want. Nothign say you use them for ill or have to use them at all. You can let organics rule themselves.

And your character knows this how?  Because the AI whose mission it is to harvest organics told you really really nicely?

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

Read again, please ...

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a conventional victory was any less likely that what we got? To be clear, the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Which is to say nothing of the bizarre justifications being put forward for Control in this thread.

Of course it was not likeley. The first reaper we fought took on 3 fleets  and had to be stunned to kill. And then we are told a fleet of Ships like that, that dwarf the number of all the ships in the fleets of the entire galexy combine is coming. And then we are told and shown they an make near endless ammounst of clone husk troopers and turn our own in to there oun troops.

Sorry, but there is not one thing in the ME u that even hint to conventional victory being possible. Sorry, we can't beat the reapers conventionally. Let go of that notion.

And again...the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Please, point to me at any time in ME as a series where it was stated that conventional victory is possible?

Really because seeing Sovergin take on 3 fleets at once clearly means we an conventionally  beat of fleet of those ships.

[dreman9999]

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

Read again, please ...

I did...
When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

[dreman9999]

Shinnyshin wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle.  Sounds pretty unlikely, yes.  But it sounds MORE likely than the anti-organic AI just giving you the keys.  And there's actually some groundwork laid for it, slim though it be.

I get that people are desperate, but from your Shep's point of view...there are DEFINITELY ways in which accepting the AI's options can make things worse.

P.S. That actually was a possiblity I considered when I first saw control.

"Control "gives you control of the reapers" by having a human reaper assimilate Shepard.  By choosing this option, you become the commander in chief of the first human reaper and procede to lead their forces in the next cycle. "

No, you do control the reaper but you do with them want you want. Nothign say you use them for ill or have to use them at all. You can let organics rule themselves.

And your character knows this how?  Because the AI whose mission it is to harvest organics told you really really nicely?

Yes, you do understand that we have to take what the catalyst is saying a varibale right?

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

Read again, please ...

I did...
When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

When did I say that the kid says something like that? Please ... calm down and read.

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a conventional victory was any less likely that what we got? To be clear, the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Which is to say nothing of the bizarre justifications being put forward for Control in this thread.

Of course it was not likeley. The first reaper we fought took on 3 fleets  and had to be stunned to kill. And then we are told a fleet of Ships like that, that dwarf the number of all the ships in the fleets of the entire galexy combine is coming. And then we are told and shown they an make near endless ammounst of clone husk troopers and turn our own in to there oun troops.

Sorry, but there is not one thing in the ME u that even hint to conventional victory being possible. Sorry, we can't beat the reapers conventionally. Let go of that notion.

And again...the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Please, point to me at any time in ME as a series where it was stated that conventional victory is possible?

Really because seeing Sovergin take on 3 fleets at once clearly means we an conventionally  beat of fleet of those ships.

Are we even having the same conversation Dreyman?

Yes, we are. You saying that the reapers not being able to be beat conventionally is because of what was written in ME3.

I'm saying it was alwasy the plan from the start. Do you get me now?

[Noelemahc]

dreman9999 wrote...
Please, point to me at any time in ME as a series where it was stated that conventional victory is possible?

Really because seeing Sovergin take on 3 fleets at once clearly means we an conventionally  beat of fleet of those ships.

For the love of Fwiffo, read my posts that you obviously chose to not read if you keep repeating the same inane questions over and over again.

[dreman9999]

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I understand you taking about control but you seem not to get what I'm say. Your picking and choosing what the catalyst many bein glieing about and telling the truth bout with no bases. I'm say for everythogn the catalyst says you have to consider if it's a truth or a lie, not just pick and choose.

No, when Kid says "you can control the reapers" you read "I'm free to do what ever I want". The kid never said this. It never said something about "not bind by protocol" nothing about "Freewill-GodShep". I don't trust the kid so this point makes me think.
Hell - you said yourself that Casper is a shakled AI. How did you even come to the conclusion that YourShep can do whatever he/she wants?

You're just saying "I trust you, everything will be fine." See the difference?

As for refuse - I shoot the tube.
I admire the Geth and EDI. But I'll not refuse. But if refuse and control will be the only options, I would choose refuse. Why? The galaxy is screwed both times. Control will only lenghten the suffering.

When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

Read again, please ...

I did...
When the hell do he say the shepard ai is binded by protical. Sorry, but that is a base less claim.

When did I say that the kid says something like that? Please ... calm down and read.

I  know that. I saying suspecting it is baseless.

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

I  know that. I saying suspecting it is baseless.

Nope, you want to see things that are not there. The kid never said you will be bound, but it also never said you will be free.
As long as you don't see this, you'll never understand why someone would choose refuse over control.

[Xilizhra]

Do you maybe think the two bolded statements are interdependent in your case? Therein lies the point of differing viewpoints.

Well, true. I don't really have a problem with your viewpoint, but I do have a problem with people assuming that I'm deluded/evil.

Are you seriously quoting The Illusive Man as evidence for why my Shepard was a fool to have faith in the inherent good of the universe? The Illusive Man? Who believed that he could bargain his way around morality to suit his purpose? Who conceded so many ethical barriers that he brutalised and terrorised innocents, and eventually lost himself down a spiral of delusion that served his enemy's whim?

He is the posterchild for why believing you can compromise your beliefs utterly and still serve your fellow man is a delusion.

If that is the counter argument then I would do it again in a heartbeat.

And still be demoralised utterly when the Bioware writers stabbed that hope down.

I disagree with him on most things, which is why I'm disappointed that he turned out to actually be right about your Shepard. Mine proved him wrong.
But if you're talking about inherent good? No, I don't believe that the universe is inherently good. We have to work to do good ourselves, and are frequently held back by our baser nature. That's just how things work.

[dreman9999]

Noelemahc wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Please, point to me at any time in ME as a series where it was stated that conventional victory is possible?

Really because seeing Sovergin take on 3 fleets at once clearly means we an conventionally  beat of fleet of those ships.

For the love of Fwiffo, read my posts that you obviously chose to not read if you keep repeating the same inane questions over and over again.

1. Those fleets were not full-strength (only the human one was).
2. Sovereign had the entire might of the Geth fleet at his disposal. IT'S ON OUR SIDE NOW.
3. Neither Geth nor Reapers were in ANY galactic fleet handbook at that point. It was the first large engagement between Geth and organic forces EVER since the Morning War (and it was a ground war), and the first contact our cycle had with a live Reaper. ULTIMATE element of surprise, baybee. It's super effective.
4. None of the Council Race fleets had guns prepared to fight ships of synthetics.
5. Thanix Cannons. They penetrate shields.
6. Thanix Cannons. They cut armour like butter.
7. Thanix Cannons. They are standard issue on all human, Turian and Geth (if you played your cards right) ships by the time the United Fleet attacks Earth.
8. Thanix Cannons. They are officially declared as an anti-Reaper specific weapon in ME2.
9. Thanix Cannons. They aren't actually used in a single scene in ME3.
10. Thanix Cannons. They were deliberately retconned to make conventional victory seem impossible.
11. Thanix Cannons. Their existance was INTENTIONALLY IGNORED by the writers of ME3.
12. Thanix Cannons. Are you seeing a pattern yet?

1.-4.I'm taking about the human fleets. There 3 in the end of ME1.
5-6.Thanix cannons have to be close to be effecive ageist reaper...
http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities
The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them-- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters.

So back on point. what says that we can beat the reapers ocnventionally?

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2012 - 03:06 .

[dreman9999]

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a conventional victory was any less likely that what we got? To be clear, the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Which is to say nothing of the bizarre justifications being put forward for Control in this thread.

Of course it was not likeley. The first reaper we fought took on 3 fleets  and had to be stunned to kill. And then we are told a fleet of Ships like that, that dwarf the number of all the ships in the fleets of the entire galexy combine is coming. And then we are told and shown they an make near endless ammounst of clone husk troopers and turn our own in to there oun troops.

Sorry, but there is not one thing in the ME u that even hint to conventional victory being possible. Sorry, we can't beat the reapers conventionally. Let go of that notion.

And again...the only reason a conventional victory isn’t possible is because Mac and Casey insisted on taking the trilogy off on some bizarre, transcendental, morally repugnant, tangent at the 11th hour. You see, if our not so dynamic duo decided to scribble some different words on the piece of toilet paper that detailed our extended endings, we would have got a different one.

Please, point to me at any time in ME as a series where it was stated that conventional victory is possible?

Really because seeing Sovergin take on 3 fleets at once clearly means we an conventionally  beat of fleet of those ships.

Are we even having the same conversation Dreyman?

Yes, we are. You saying that the reapers not being able to be beat conventionally is because of what was written in ME3.

I'm saying it was alwasy the plan from the start. Do you get me now?

Oh, I get it...you have **** for brains

Ya, because some how we are able to have conventional victory some how magically.