435 réponses à ce sujet

[fr33stylez]

Sauruz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
How is it pyrrihic? Pyrrhic applies that both sided takes heavy loses. The reaper did not take heavy loses to win.

To metagame myself now, paraphrasing the post credit sequence: "...They fought a terrible battle so we did not have to..."
This seem to me that Hackett-Shepard-Joker Inc fought to the last ship but, the Reapers were so weakened by the war that the next group did not take much loss.

I simply found it distasteful someone put in there that the next group used the Crucible...

Sorry, DEV say used the crucible and devs have last say.

That's what one dev wrote, on Twitter.
Video games are a collaborative effort. What one person who was involved in the project - even if he was lead writer - says after the product was released has little relevance to what is actually in the product.

Agreed. It's silly to say one writer (of many) of ME3 has the 'last say' through his personal twitter account, for a scene that was never explained in-game.

So if Gamble says tomorrow on twitter 'Shepard eventually harvests the galaxy in Control' , we should take it as canon?

[DrGunjah]

Davik Kang wrote...
You probably have an answer.  But I don't think it's changing anything.  We keep making the same points backwards and forwards.

I have, but just let us agree on having different opinions.
Btw I'm starting to believe that bioware intentionally ****ed up the endings to keep the discussion going

Modifié par DrGunjah, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:37 .

[M Hedonist]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Because I don't believe what you do.

I hope this quote will be enough to kill this thread.

[Tibbur]

Who's to say a cerby group won't pop up in the future and toss out shepard-alist with a crucible. Taking control of the reapers for their own means. That's if he can even can control them for eternity or doesn't become corrupted. Just having active reapers anywhere in the universe is too dangerous.

Modifié par Tibbur, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:43 .

[Davik Kang]

DrGunjah wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...
You probably have an answer.  But I don't think it's changing anything.  We keep making the same points backwards and forwards.

I have, but just let us agree on having different opinions.
Btw I'm starting to believe that bioware intentionally ****ed up the endings to keep the discussion going

Absolutely, though I do think this is a really good thing.  This is what makes the ending a 10/10 ending in my opinion.  You've probably seen the writers' notes "lots of speculation for everybody about everything" or something along those lines.  Some see that as cheap, but for me, the ME ending showed me a level of respect I'd been craving as a player.  Some games give you the good guy fight, and let you pick "good" or "bad" as a pretence for some kind of meaningful choice.  You pick good, you get a medal ceremony.  Bad, crush everyone with your rule by the fist.  It's not really a choice, just an exuse for replay value.

ME seems like so much more.  Like it is geared towards giving you the satisfaction of the different possibilities in one playthrough rather than several.  I know for a fact that a lot of players actually find this view repulsive, but there it is.  I thought it was awesome.

[Cyberfrog81]

dreman9999 wrote...

Oh stop it. The dev that wrote was the
producer of the project. Stop try to find away out of using the
crucible. Sorry, no matter what you do, it's used.

Nope. That was Gamble's interpretation. It's not canon.

dreman9999 wrote...

Right, the option to allow you to control teh reapers any way you want..Including having them not involve themselves with life at all , is some how the second worst option.

This is incredibly naive. You just disposed of the latest indoctrinated sucker who believed the Reapers could be controlled.

And they call refusers foolish... 

[drayfish]

Xilizhra wrote..

drayfish wrote...

Are you seriously quoting The Illusive Man as evidence for why my Shepard was a fool to have faith in the inherent good of the universe? The Illusive Man? Who believed that he could bargain his way around morality to suit his purpose? Who conceded so many ethical barriers that he brutalised and terrorised innocents, and eventually lost himself down a spiral of delusion that served his enemy's whim?

He is the posterchild for why believing you can compromise your beliefs utterly and still serve your fellow man is a delusion.

If that is the counter argument then I would do it again in a heartbeat.

And still be demoralised utterly when the Bioware writers stabbed that hope down.

I disagree with him on most things, which is why I'm disappointed that he turned out to actually be right about your Shepard. Mine proved him wrong.
But if you're talking about inherent good? No, I don't believe that the universe is inherently good. We have to work to do good ourselves, and are frequently held back by our baser nature. That's just how things work.

Again - I can only say how heartening it is to disappoint a guy who himself damned all civilisation by compromising himself, his morality, and all life so blatantly in the misguided belief that fundamental ethics and respect for life can be bent at will.

And if your vision of the universe is so bleak - we are all broken, base creatures, motivated by selfish, amoral desire - then I can certainly see why your Shepard would have chosen Control (and it is certainly not for the benign reasons I had first presumed).  If we sorry, corrupted souls have to be saved from ourselves and compelled to behave, I genuinely fear for the kind of Shepard-Catalyst they have awaiting them. 

Modifié par drayfish, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:48 .

[dreman9999]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Oh stop it. The dev that wrote was the
producer of the project. Stop try to find away out of using the
crucible. Sorry, no matter what you do, it's used.

Nope. That was Gamble's interpretation. It's not canon.

dreman9999 wrote...

Right, the option to allow you to control teh reapers any way you want..Including having them not involve themselves with life at all , is some how the second worst option.

This is incredibly naive. You just disposed of the latest indoctrinated sucker who believed the Reapers could be controlled.

And they call refusers foolish... 

1. Nope. Dev's have last say.
2.I'm sorry but It's clear TIM is heavily indoctrianted. What issues TIm has is not what Shepard has. Remeber, the leviathens and the catalyst clearly tell you the reapers are just machines doing what they are programed to do. They have no will. I still do. So that means I can control them. And the ending shows this.

[dreman9999]

Tibbur wrote...

Who's to say a cerby group won't pop up in the future and toss out shepard-alist with a crucible. Taking control of the reapers for their own means. That's if he can even can control them for eternity or doesn't become corrupted. Just having active reapers anywhere in the universe is too dangerous.

Because my Shepard ai wil be hunting them down like the dogs they are. 


Really it's up to bw to say what happens next.

[dreman9999]

fr33stylez wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
How is it pyrrihic? Pyrrhic applies that both sided takes heavy loses. The reaper did not take heavy loses to win.

To metagame myself now, paraphrasing the post credit sequence: "...They fought a terrible battle so we did not have to..."
This seem to me that Hackett-Shepard-Joker Inc fought to the last ship but, the Reapers were so weakened by the war that the next group did not take much loss.

I simply found it distasteful someone put in there that the next group used the Crucible...

Sorry, DEV say used the crucible and devs have last say.

That's what one dev wrote, on Twitter.
Video games are a collaborative effort. What one person who was involved in the project - even if he was lead writer - says after the product was released has little relevance to what is actually in the product.

Agreed. It's silly to say one writer (of many) of ME3 has the 'last say' through his personal twitter account, for a scene that was never explained in-game.

So if Gamble says tomorrow on twitter 'Shepard eventually harvests the galaxy in Control' , we should take it as canon?

Devs have last say so yes.

[AlexMBrennan]

Depends on what you think about Word of God and Death of the Author. As far as I am concerned, it's not canon if it's not in the actual game.

Edit to clarify for the sophist trolls: Or books, comics and other published media.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 18 octobre 2012 - 10:54 .

[cyrexwingblade]

I actually do. I would destroy if I could, but I can't. I can't refuse, because it's a waste of everyone's effort.

So I control. And hate myself.

[m2iCodeJockey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
RGB was all Crucible.

OK. Here are a couple big-assed pics...






 See the end of the Crucible in each pic? The RGB machine is part of the Citadel and it's the only reason to bring the Crucible to it.
It is already there when Shep wakes up.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 18 octobre 2012 - 10:18 .

[dreman9999]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Depends on what you think about Word of God and Death of the Author. As far as I am concerned, it's not canon if it's not in the actual game.

Too bad ME revilation and the other books prove you wrong.

[dreman9999]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
RGB was all Crucible.

OK. Here are a couple big-assed pics...






 See the end of the Crucible in each pic? The RGB machine is part of the Citadel and it's the only reason to bring the Crucible to it.
It is already there when Shep wakes up.

Sorry...This proves your wrong...

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2012 - 10:33 .

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...

What issues TIm has is not what Shepard has.

Then why'd you shoot Anderson, dummy?
Just don't shoot him...

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What issues TIm has is not what Shepard has.

Then why'd you shoot Anderson, dummy?
Just don't shoot him...

Sorry, I not unable to make choice..I still have free will.

[AlexMBrennan]

Too bad ME revilation and the other books prove you wrong.

Sophistry. Go away, troll.

If you had any understanding of the terms I used, you'd have realised that I'm talking about the difference between published media - here games, books and other published tie-in media like comic books and external commentary from the creators. I had assumed that this was clear from context (a discussion of Word of God via Twitter) that anyone looking up the term in question would realise what I meant without me spelling out every detail.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 18 octobre 2012 - 11:00 .

[Davik Kang]

dreman9999 wrote...
Sorry...This proves your wrong...

I don't think this proves anything.  I don't even think it's good evidence for the assertion.  Watch the Low EMS version.  There you can see the thing still gripped by the vices.  It looks like they might have just missed it on the first one.  We don't see anything unfold and dock on the Citadel.

The only helpful thing I can see is that the Red thing highlighted in pic 1 matches the red thing highlighted in pic 4.  Which goes against your claim.

[dreman9999]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Too bad ME revilation and the other books prove you wrong.

Sophistry. Go away, troll.

If you had any understanding of the terms I used, you'd have realised that I'm talking about the difference between published media - here games, books and other published tie-in media like comic books and external commentary from the creators. I had assumed that this was clear from context (a discussion of Word of God via Twitter) that anyone looking up the term in question would realise what I meant without me spelling out every detail.

So, that means Emily Wong is still alive then?

[dreman9999]

Davik Kang wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Sorry...This proves your wrong...

I don't think this proves anything.  I don't even think it's good evidence for the assertion.  Watch the Low EMS version.  There you can see the thing still gripped by the vices.  It looks like they might have just missed it on the first one.  We don't see anything unfold and dock on the Citadel.

The only helpful thing I can see is that the Red thing highlighted in pic 1 matches the red thing highlighted in pic 4.  Which goes against your claim.

But it's show to be there. It is a part installed into the citadel. Shepard is standing on that in the end of the game.

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...
So, that means Emily Wong is still alive then?

We don't know what happened to Emily Wong...
She could very well be alive...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 18 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
So, that means Emily Wong is still alive then?

We don't know what happened to Emily Wong...
She could very well be alive...

Pics or it didn't happen.

[m2iCodeJockey]

dreman9999 wrote...
...Here is the "nubbin"....
* snip *

Thanks. I see that in the bik. Now, "Han shot first..."

It breaks two more things:
1) If the engineers had both the "source emitter" and the "modulator" and animated CAD models on top of schematics, it doesn't make sense that it would take more than an hour for someone to say "This is uses the Citadel as focused emitter. It's the only thing in the known galaxy that's has something that fits those feet and is dark energy process capable..." (if anyone bothered to listen to Shepard's Ilos suit data after she's proven to be correct about an invasion.)

2) There are large cables, at least eight on Control and two on destroy that go right from the modulator into the Citadel Tower. They are not in the cut scene and make no visual sense if the modulator was not already on the tower.

[drayfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Depends on what you think about Word of God and Death of the Author. As far as I am concerned, it's not canon if it's not in the actual game.

Too bad ME revilation and the other books prove you wrong.

Mass Effect: Deception (a novel okayed by the game's directors and producers, and sold as an official contribution to the overarching narrative) was so filled with lore and canon faults that it was recalled for revision.

I'm not sure how that fits into your argument.  Indeed, it rather wholly undermines it.