435 réponses à ce sujet

[FOX216BC]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

the price is to high
"Guardian of the many"  this is just a impossible thing to do/be.

This won't end well.
Synthesis and control, the future generations will pay for your ignorance.

Ah yes, the "I read about something like this in a sci-fi novel, it didn't end well" argument.

We have dismissed that claim.

"we have dismissed that claim"
Yeah, the turian consular's statement.
We all saw how that worked out.

[hukbum]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ever wondered what the child wanted to say with "you will loose everything"? The galaxy will change arround GodShep, new civilization, new ideas everything will change - and she/he will be stuck to the agenda: Protect everyone at any cost.
If you choose control you can say one thing for sure: There will be casualties.

Fewer than there would be, I suspect, without Control.

"For ever" ... run the numbers on that one.

[DrGunjah]

Your fear paranoia is completely irrational.

"There are worse thing than death" ... irrelevant! We know what the Reapers' goal is, so if this is a trick, it's not going to deviate away from that very simple goal: we get harvested.

Well I am not a bit more paranoid than you credulous. It's only irrelevant if you think synthesis (or the like) is something good. Because you know that goal changes in the last 10 minutes of the game, from harvesting to synthesis. Hey why not let us trust the reaper boss, synthesis must be great, we all know they have great ideas, like their last one (harvesting). Now what if 1 year later the reapers realize it does not work and start mindcontrolling everybody(if you assume they don't do it already when choosing synthesis). Or maybe even something worse. I'd rather be dead.

Which, again, Refuse is already content on allowing to happen.

If you think they're secretly plotting to turn us into some kind of tentacle monsters or something for eternity, just for lulz, you're so scared s***less about the situation it's not even funny.

It doesn't have to be tentacle monsters, what happens with synthesis is already horrifying enough.
Remember, you doom every lifeform that will ever exist to share your fate, while with refuse you only affect your cycle.

[Xilizhra]

hukbum wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ever wondered what the child wanted to say with "you will loose everything"? The galaxy will change arround GodShep, new civilization, new ideas everything will change - and she/he will be stuck to the agenda: Protect everyone at any cost.
If you choose control you can say one thing for sure: There will be casualties.

Fewer than there would be, I suspect, without Control.

"For ever" ... run the numbers on that one.

And there'd be casualties from innumerable other sources forever as well without Control. I don't believe Control would lead to more deaths than there would have been otherwise.

[spirosz]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

... so Control them to lose, if possible.


At least you're trying something.

The Control ending/slides shows the Reapers helping to re-build, does it not? So I'm assuming you're headcannoning them to "lose" after?

[LucasShark]

... Because it leads to an eternal Shepard-run police state?

[DrGunjah]

Xilizhra wrote...
The Catalyst perceives Destroy as a solution. Probably because it wants to wipe the slate clean of synthetics, as opposed to some cycle defeating the Reapers conventionally and leaving all of the current ones around. The Catalyst is trying to cut its losses.

If this was really a viable solution, why do they even harvest organic life? they just could come every hundred years to our galaxy, kill all synthetics and go home again. And why would he have to cut their losses when they actually win? Just let shepard die down there -> profit. Cycle continues. But I see whats going on... doing nothing is not an option for you guys, even if (in the case of the catalyst) that means you win.

[hukbum]

Xilizhra wrote...

hukbum wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ever wondered what the child wanted to say with "you will loose everything"? The galaxy will change arround GodShep, new civilization, new ideas everything will change - and she/he will be stuck to the agenda: Protect everyone at any cost.
If you choose control you can say one thing for sure: There will be casualties.

Fewer than there would be, I suspect, without Control.

"For ever" ... run the numbers on that one.

And there'd be casualties from innumerable other sources forever as well without Control. I don't believe Control would lead to more deaths than there would have been otherwise.

Fair point.
But listening to the GodShep-agenda and knowing that I left him there with a big f***ing army ...
What will happen? One thing's for sure - GodShep can't allow anyone to surpass his/her forces, because otherwise he/she can't fulfill the "Protect everyone"-agenda anymore. Thinking about this "little" thing, makes me worry enough not to choose it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

1) There is no reason for Ghostie to do anything unless Shepard is a threat (control panel) or it serves Ghostie's goal (Synthesis.)
2) We don't know sh** about the mechanism before blasting/breaking part of it: that's meta-gaming.
3) There's no reason for Sovereign to attack the Citadel if Ghostie lived there and had control of it.
4) If Tali is an admiral and Koris was saved, the Rannoch Reaper's dialog is nonsense. It only makes sense if Shepard had to chose either Geth or Quarians not both.
From my POV, the Rannoch Reaper did not foreshadow anything.
5) With Leviathan installed, the Levi say they don't know what it's doing but, it is not accomplishing the task they gave it. Later, it says "I am just carrying out their directive." Which one is right?

1.) You're making projections about the catalyst's motives.
2.) Yeah we do. Post-Coup, Hackett says the scientists are convinced it will destroy the Reapers. There's nothing fishy about the catalyst telling us that that's what it does. No metagaming.
3.) Basless assumption, about both what the catalyst's control is and why Sovereign attacked it.
4.) Doesn't change the very big hint: he thinks organics have no power over synthetics. Why did he think that? Obviously because the catalyst has them all indoctrinated.
5.) He said the opposite: it's doing what he told it to do.

The answer to you original question is: Not everyone had the same POV as you. Testing Ghostie's dialog against Sovereign's speech alone, it did not pass the smell test.

Sovereign's speech doesn't detail anything conclusive. He says nothing other than "you're doomed, puny mortals."

edit: Thanks for Sovereign speech, Reth.

Which I addressed and said meant nothing. Thanks indeed.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

FOX216BC wrote...

"we have dismissed that claim"
Yeah, the turian consular's statement.
We all saw how that worked out.

I see you're big on relating unrelated events to prove a point. Too bad you effectively prove nothing in the process.

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Also, how is it at all preferrable to have him just "shut off" than carrying out Destroy/Control yourself? The loss of the catalyst won't destroy the Reapers. For all we know they'll still survive and losing control will confuse them, making them even worse than before.

No. Shut EVERYTHING off. Him, the Reapers, the husks, the whole shebang. Or get them all to kill each other. He can do that. He controls them. Simple.

Again, his creators were control-freaks. You think they programmed him to be able to *not* do his job? I doubt it.

If he needs you to use the Crucible to stop his self-admitted obsolete solution, then it probably is not so simple.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

DrGunjah wrote...
Well I am not a bit more paranoid than you credulous. It's only irrelevant if you think synthesis (or the like) is something good. Because you know that goal changes in the last 10 minutes of the game, from harvesting to synthesis.

The goal doesn't change, the catalyst can't make any of Destroy/Control/Synthesis happen. He can only harvest.

It doesn't have to be tentacle monsters, what happens with synthesis is already horrifying enough.
Remember, you doom every lifeform that will ever exist to share your fate, while with refuse you only affect your cycle.

You're running scared.

What happens in synthesis is nothing. You can be synthesized and basically keep your form in just about every way, or you can be synthesized by becoming goo in a giant sentinet dreadnought programmed to genocide. Easy choice.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

spirosz wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

... so Control them to lose, if possible.


At least you're trying something.

The Control ending/slides shows the Reapers helping to re-build, does it not? So I'm assuming you're headcannoning them to "lose" after?

*If possible. As in, that's a chance you'd be taking. If not possible, oh well. Still better than abandoning the Crucible outright, since the outcome cannot be worse than the outcome of Refuse.

You bring up a point, though. There's just no way the writers can know your character enough to know how they'd control. Their attempt, using past decisions and Shepard's morality to tell the tale, was admirable. But if the epilogue doesn't fit, you headcanon this. Destroy/Synthesis/Refuse? Not so much.

LucasShark wrote...

... Because it leads to an eternal Shepard-run police state?

1.) You cannot know what happens after choosing Control w/o metagaming, especially not if that's not how you see your Shepard's control.
2.) That still isn't a worse outcome than Refuse (which people should know leads to defeat anyway). In fact, you buy the galaxy time to find conventional means to destroy the Reapers before any ensuing conflict, so it's way, wayyyy better.


*edit* - HYR is out for the next eight hours, tee tee why ell - !!!!

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .

[AlanC9]

spirosz wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

... so Control them to lose, if possible.


At least you're trying something.

The Control ending/slides shows the Reapers helping to re-build, does it not? So I'm assuming you're headcannoning them to "lose" after?

Well, if you can use the Reapers to fix the relays -- it'd be really, really stupid not to, wouldn't it?

[m2iCodeJockey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
1.) You're making projections about the catalyst's motives.
2.) Yeah we do. Post-Coup, Hackett says the scientists are convinced it will destroy the Reapers. There's nothing fishy about the catalyst telling us that that's what it does. No metagaming.
3.) Basless assumption, about both what the catalyst's control is and why Sovereign attacked it.
4.) Doesn't change the very big hint: he thinks organics have no power over synthetics. Why did he think that? Obviously because the catalyst has them all indoctrinated.
5.) He said the opposite: it's doing what he told it to do.

1) Yes, when making a decision about something that goes against my own survival instinct, that is normal.
2) He says THEY SUSPECT it has enough power to do so but, they don't know specifically how.
3) Making sense of what Sovereign and Saren said, they attacked the Citadel to activate the Citadel relay. If the Citadel is part of Ghostie, how does it not control itself? It can kill its creators but, not repair Ksad Ishan's sabotage and activate the relay?
4) One SHOULD NOT have control if in a described COOPERATION. After all, the Geth are intelligent.
5) Ghotie's perspective is that it is following their directive. Levis' perspective is that Ghostie is not succeeding at the task. Levis also said that Ghostie serves its purpose - one of a few things Levis said to conflict themselves and Ghostie.
6) Sovereign's speech in two places says at least two things: This isn't the first time it's attacked the Citadel and its motive is to initiate mass extinction. This says then, whomever commands the Reapers is our enemy - So, I tried shooting the little b******d, right after looking at how to get back to the panel/Anderson.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 17 octobre 2012 - 07:14 .

[DrGunjah]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
The goal doesn't change, the catalyst can't make any of Destroy/Control/Synthesis happen. He can only harvest.

if available, the catalyst obviously wants you to choose synthesis. he says it's the best solution and inevitable, etc. Although he can not click the button, it can very well be his goal to make you choose synthesis.

You're running scared.

What happens in synthesis is nothing. You can be synthesized and basically keep your form in just about every way, or you can be synthesized by becoming goo in a giant sentinet dreadnought programmed to genocide. Easy choice.

Yeah but it's not your choice. You can do it or not but there is no preview like "hey shepard, watch, this is how everyone will look like". You don't know what exactly happens w/o metagaming. And changing the DNA of every lifeform is not a decision one should make within 5 minutes. When you believe everything the catalyst says ("The crucible has changed me") he invented that synthesis **** just 10 minutes ago. seems legit

By the way, a question i often read, but never saw an answer for: what will your people eat after choosing synthesis? You know every lifeform gets synthesized. organic lifeforms usually eat other organic lifeforms (no more steak sandwich for kaidan ). Even the vegetarians will have a bad time because plants are organic lifeforms too.

[Necrotron]

Because every other individual who ever dealt with the Reapers in any way, shape, or form in Mass Effect ended up an indoctrinated slave? So, wouldn't it seem reasonable, given the mountain of evidence against him, that the starchild is untrustworthy?

I think that is why most people who pick refuse pick refuse, because it fits the story and the character of Shepard. If you metagame, the answer is different, but if you rely on the information you actually have in game, better to die free than became an indoctrinated slave.

[Xilizhra]

I think that is why most people who pick refuse pick refuse, because it fits the story and the character of Shepard. If you metagame, the answer is different, but if you rely on the information you actually have in game, better to die free than became an indoctrinated slave.

I disagree. If I die free, the galaxy dies; if I become an indoctrinated slave, the galaxy dies. With the same result either way, I'll take maybe becoming an indoctrinated slave over definitely dying along with the galaxy.

[JPR1964]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

A refuser obviously doesn't believe a word the starkid is saying.

Why would they then choose control?

Exactly!

I don't understand why my parangon Sheppard has to believe a word of this damn genodicdal rogue AI...



JPR out!

[JPR1964]

Xilizhra wrote...
I disagree. If I die free, the galaxy dies; if I become an indoctrinated slave, the galaxy dies. With the same result either way, I'll take maybe becoming an indoctrinated slave over definitely dying along with the galaxy.

Well, just no!

I don't know if I'm going to die, unless I believe Starbrat, that I'm not...

And therefore, Reapers don't destroy the galaxy, only advanced  species...

And so on : there is so much contradiction in this game, that it doesn't feel right...

You don't seems to be fond of roleplaying, don't you?

JPR out!

[Bill Casey]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

You see, that's what frustrates me about how Control is presented in the EC. At no point is it implied that Shepard will ever destroy or free the Reapers. Instead, it seems that Shepard and the Reapers are here to stay, bending the galaxy to his will.

Times like these are when you headcanon. Anything that has to do with your character's story/backstory, IMO, is headcanon material for the player.

I commend the writers' effort with Control's EC epilogue and taking morality into account, but they also simply cannot know my character enough to make it completely accurate to him. So whatever I like can stay (rebuilding the galaxy), what I don't is out ("big brother") and replaced.

That AI at the end isn't my shepard, so just headcanon that it is silly...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .

[PinkysPain]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 This is a rule that you can't live without if you want to stay in school...

D'you ever try and stop the Reapers? Make them just stop what they're doing instead of Destroying/Synthesizing with them? Just pick Control ya dummy! Why didn't you think of that??

I refused to pick an ending or let the game pick an ending for me ... alt-f4 is best ending.

As for why I didn't pick control, cause I knew the little **** was lying and whatever remained of me would be thoroughly indoctrinated ... from a metagame respect I was right, since the reapers didn't fly straight into the sun towing the citadel behind them.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Xilizhra wrote...
I disagree. If I die free, the galaxy dies; if I become an indoctrinated slave, the galaxy dies. With the same result either way, I'll take maybe becoming an indoctrinated slave over definitely dying along with the galaxy.

WHOOOOOOA!!!!!
Did you just say "Submission is preferable to extinction?!!"

[Slayer299]

OP, why would I pick Control based on the assumption that the startwit is telling the truth?

If you believe the startwit is telling the truth to you about your options than there you go, you can accept whichever of the three you wish. But otherwise I have no reason to accept control as a good idea without meta-gaming it. .

[fr33stylez]

I can't choose Control from a narrative consistency standpoint without feeling like a moron. If this doesn't bother you, have at it.

[Gamer790]

If I could get the option to fly the reapers into a star after I had them repair the relays and give their gathered knowledge from throughout history to current races then I would look a little more kindly on control. If not then I don't like the idea of catalyst 2.0 imposing order with its army of super powerful, giant, robot squids.