184 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

Malanek999 wrote...

After looking at the epilogue slides months later it shows you some sort of utopian world

Utopia and free will are mutually exclusive concepts...

[AdmiralCheez]

Eterna5 wrote...

Of course not. But you're trying to tell me that Organic races are going to drive themselves to extinction out of principal. Ridiculous.

Oh, they'll submit eventually.  And then they'll rebel.  And then they'll submit again.  It's kinda how things go, historically speaking.

Especially considering the Epilogues slides completely debunk your assertion.

Epilogue slides are feel-good copypasta, meant to give closure to everyone, regardless of the ending.  Even so, what about 200 years in the future?

Think of the Shepalyst as the Government and the Reapers as the police Force. To common civillians attack the Police because they enforce the law? Do common people begrudge the Police because they prevent you from commiting murder?

Um, yes, actually.  People that believe the police are corrupt or have too much power rebel against them all the time.

Why then would people oppose a force that enforces peace?

Said Harbinger to the Protheans.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're talking about separate issues. If they don't want me there as the Catalyst regardless of the Reapers' own nature, because they just dislike me having that power period, then that's a completely different issue. However, given that the Council isn't really a democracy either, I don't think the waves caused would be that big.

The krogans would like a word with you.

I'd prefer Synthesis over Control if it was better explained. And I've taken plenty of risks before in my Paragoning time.

I took a lot of risks, too.  Trusting the Reapers, though?  That was a bit of a leap, even for me.

[Eterna]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The old Reapers' plans are no more, because those were all the work of the original Catalyst, who is now gone. Although I don't plan to "rule," it wouldn't be a question of whether they'd be all right with the Reapers in charge, but with me in charge. If they're rational, they'll accept it; if not, it's not my concern, though I hope they do accept it.

Shepard is dead.  You admit that you don't care whether or not your subjects are willing.  You may believe you are in the right, but so does every other dictator, and you (or rather a synthetic copy of you) have more power than all of those dictators combined.

I ask you then. What is wrong with a Dictator that enforces peace? Being a Dictator doesn't instantly make you bad, just an FYI.  What is so bad about taking away the freedom to start a war and conflict?

 Do you consider NATO to be a wholly immoral organization? It essentially serves the same purpose. 

[Xilizhra]

The krogans would like a word with you.

Which ones? The ones who were given a bunch of privileges after fighting the rachni and started a new war as their thanks, or their descendents who've done nothing to reform their culture and hold continuous grudges against the rest of the galaxy for actually winning that war?

[Eterna]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Of course not. But you're trying to tell me that Organic races are going to drive themselves to extinction out of principal. Ridiculous.

Oh, they'll submit eventually.  And then they'll rebel.  And then they'll submit again.  It's kinda how things go, historically speaking.

You still haven't answered why people would oppose a force that protects them.  The Reapers don't tax and beat down civillians they don't like. They do nothing more than rebuild and protect against Galatic threats.

Modifié par Eterna5, 18 octobre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Hey]

So Cosmic G, has this thread helped your decision at all?

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
You still haven't answered why people would oppose a force that protects them. 

The force either fails to protect or is too strict.

[Eterna]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
You still haven't answered why people would oppose a force that protects them. 

The force either fails to protect or is too strict.

Do you have evidence that this occurs in Control?

Modifié par Eterna5, 18 octobre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
Do you have evidence that this occurs in Control?

No, but is there evidence that it doesn't occur?
It was more of a general case anyway.

[AdmiralCheez]

Eterna5 wrote...

I ask you then. What is wrong with a Dictator that enforces peace? Being a Dictator doesn't instantly make you bad, just an FYI.  What is so bad about taking away the freedom to start a war and conflict?

Because it hardly ever works out that way.  Power corrupts, the saying goes, and people are generally uncomfortable when they're not in control of their own lives.

But you remind me of someone...

Do you consider NATO to be a wholly immoral organization? It essentially serves the same purpose.

Depends on what NATO's been up to.  They've been known to be jerks occasionally.

[Eterna]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Do you have evidence that this occurs in Control?

No, but is there evidence that it doesn't occur?
It was more of a general case anyway.

Yes. You don't see anyone vowing the downfall of their "oppresive" dictators. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

Which ones? The ones who were given a bunch of privileges after fighting the rachni and started a new war as their thanks, or their descendents who've done nothing to reform their culture and hold continuous grudges against the rest of the galaxy for actually winning that war?

So I guess they're up for indoctrination next, then.  Krogan pride is too great to entertain the idea of being ruled by something other than themselves.

[CosmicGnosis]

Festae9 wrote...

So Cosmic G, has this thread helped your decision at all?

Nope. This always happens. I begin to convince myself that a particular choice is the way to go, and then people completely dismantle my ideas.

[Eterna]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I ask you then. What is wrong with a Dictator that enforces peace? Being a Dictator doesn't instantly make you bad, just an FYI.  What is so bad about taking away the freedom to start a war and conflict?

Because it hardly ever works out that way.  Power corrupts, the saying goes, and people are generally uncomfortable when they're not in control of their own lives.

But you remind me of someone...

Do you consider NATO to be a wholly immoral organization? It essentially serves the same purpose.

Depends on what NATO's been up to.  They've been known to be jerks occasionally.

AI are not driven by Human Motivations. They cannot be corrupted by Power. And where did you hear that the Reapers in Control impose laws upon people that takes away control of their lives? Do you feel less in control of your own life because you're not allowed to Murder someone? 

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Which ones? The ones who were given a bunch of privileges after fighting the rachni and started a new war as their thanks, or their descendents who've done nothing to reform their culture and hold continuous grudges against the rest of the galaxy for actually winning that war?

So I guess they're up for indoctrination next, then.  Krogan pride is too great to entertain the idea of being ruled by something other than themselves.

The females aren't as selfish as the males, so this may not be a problem. I'm not going to attack the krogan. If the krogan want to negotiate for more freedoms, I'll listen. If the krogan attack me, I'll respond in kind.

[AdmiralCheez]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Nope. This always happens. I begin to convince myself that a particular choice is the way to go, and then people completely dismantle my ideas.

Look.  If you really can't decide, watch the videos again yourself.  Think about it.  Ignore the forums.  If you're still not satisfied, choose the closest approximation to what you want, and headcanon the rest.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

The females aren't as selfish as the males, so this may not be a problem.

DAT SEXISM.

I'm not going to attack the krogan. If the krogan want to negotiate for more freedoms, I'll listen. If the krogan attack me, I'll respond in kind.

Welp, somebody's going extinct.

[CosmicGnosis]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Nope. This always happens. I begin to convince myself that a particular choice is the way to go, and then people completely dismantle my ideas.

Look.  If you really can't decide, watch the videos again yourself.  Think about it.  Ignore the forums.  If you're still not satisfied, choose the closest approximation to what you want, and headcanon the rest.

I've watched those videos many, many times. They don't help.

[Xilizhra]

DAT SEXISM.

Eve says this herself. Who am I to judge krogan biology next to her?

Welp, somebody's going extinct.

The slides don't seem to point this direction at all.

[Eterna]

Xilizhra wrote...

DAT SEXISM.

Eve says this herself. Who am I to judge krogan biology next to her?

Welp, somebody's going extinct.

The slides don't seem to point this direction at all.

YOU CANT TAKE THE SLIDES AT FACE VAUE BECAUSE A PIECE OF CHEESE SAID SO.

[Hey]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Festae9 wrote...

So Cosmic G, has this thread helped your decision at all?

Nope. This always happens. I begin to convince myself that a particular choice is the way to go, and then people completely dismantle my ideas.

 
lol.  I hear ya, it's a no win deal.  It's kind of one of those gut decisions anyway unless you bring meta-knowledge into it.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
Yes. You don't see anyone vowing the downfall of their "oppresive" dictators. 

But we don't see much of anything.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

Eve says this herself. Who am I to judge krogan biology next to her?

idk a wider sampling, maybe?

The slides don't seem to point this direction at all.

The slides are the immediate aftermath.  Project 200 years into the future.

[AdmiralCheez]

Eterna5 wrote...

YOU CANT TAKE THE SLIDES AT FACE VAUE BECAUSE A PIECE OF CHEESE SAID SO.

THAT'S ADMIRAL PIECE OF CHEESE TO YOU, PUNK.