106 réponses à ce sujet

[Merlik]

or 3.5 edition if you never looked at 4th, what class/levels/stats would the NPCs have?


STEN?

STR 20
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 13

 

[Sloth Of Doom]

If this had been 4th edition D&D it really would be WoW.

[Merlik]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

If this had been 4th edition D&D it really would be WoW.

I guess you mean the classes would make it more like wow? Otherwise I would say the current rules are more wow than 4E D&D. At least in 4E you have to rest before healing instantly back to 100%.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

[Merlik]

Yes, healing surges give you a certain amount of health back but you can run out of them, it then takes a full 8 hour rest to replenish your healing surges and heal up to 100%. Healing surges are like healing potions and you have to spend them to get health. In DA, as soon as combat is over it takes a few seconds and you are all healed up, for free.

[Bibdy]

That's a rather high Charisma score for Sten, don't you think?

Not to mention Wisdom. "You're a woman fighting. This makes no sense! MY MIND CRUMBLES AT THE POSSIBILITY OF SOMEONE MAKING DECISIONS IN THEIR LIFE!!!11"

Modifié par Bibdy, 30 décembre 2009 - 11:20 .

[amrose2]

... it would have been an incredibly boring game.



O look i cast a spell.. now can't do anything for the rest of the dungeon. That'll teach me to be a caster. ZzzZzzzZzz

[mmu1]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

Now, I actually dislike 4E more than most, but that's flat-out false. Healing surges only recover a relatively small amount of health, and are really only used for healing during combat.

...and to be honest, we'd have been lucky if the Bioware devs came up with something as good as 4E. Making a good RPG system is really hard, like this first effort of theirs clearly shows. Not that they're alone in this, most pen and paper RPG systems are garbage too, and those only require the rules, without a hugely complex piece of software to go with it... Hell, I can't really rememebr the last CRPG I played where the system was actually something I enjoyed, and not just put up with, because the game overall was good enough.

[steelfire_dragon]

if DA:O was a dnd game we would be waiting for the current lawsuit to be over to get the game, and we would have to settle with a T rating.



this whole idea is just bad.

[Alodar]

If this had been 4th edition D&D Sten wouldn't exist as his race isn't part of D&D lore.
There would be no blight, darkspawn, or grey wardens.
There would be no fade, no Dalish, no alienage, no paragons.
Also if Wizard's of the Coast had approval several areas of the game would have sent them into apoplectic shock.

I understand it can be interesting to compare systems but this game is completely incompatible with the D&D worlds and rule set -- and IMHO is much better for it.

Alodar

Modifié par Alodar, 30 décembre 2009 - 11:55 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

 I'd love to see SOME 4E CRPG.

[Zibon]

Alodar wrote...

If this had been 4th edition D&D Sten wouldn't exist as his race isn't part of D&D lore.
There would be no blight, darkspawn, or grey wardens.
There would be no fade, no Dalish, no alienage, no paragons.
Also if Wizard's of the Coast had approval several areas of the game would have sent them into apoplectic shock.

I understand it can be interesting to compare systems but this game is completely incompatible with the D&D worlds and rule set -- and IMHO is much better for it.

Alodar

D&D doesn't have "lore".  The lore is part of the setting which exists separately.

[ladydesire]

SleeplessInSigil wrote...

 I'd love to see SOME 4E CRPG.

Not going to happen for a while, due to the lawsuit mentioned earlier.

[Skellimancer]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

You are saying it is any worse than these rules?

[mmu1]

Also if Wizard's of the Coast had approval several areas of the game would have sent them into apoplectic shock.

Yeah... Because DAO is so much more dark and edgy than, for example, Planescape: Torment.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Skellimancer wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

You are saying it is any worse than these rules?

Much worse.

[Skellimancer]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

You are saying it is any worse than these rules?

Much worse.

You gain mana as you cast? The spells cost no mana? you start off with 9th level spells?

[steelfire_dragon]

Sten would be a goliath fighter that focuses on twohanders if this game was a 4e game.



there is the answer to the op.

nice day and move on



read my lips, no new 4e crpgs

[MerinTB]

Skellimancer wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Have you played 4e D&D? You don't need to rest to heal anymore, you just use one of your 'healing surges' and keep going.

You are saying it is any worse than these rules?

Much worse.

You gain mana as you cast? The spells cost no mana? you start off with 9th level spells?

Despite Doomies gloomies on 4th ED, everyone complaining about balance would be happier with a 4th ED system.

For the person who said Wizards cast one spell and can do nothing else, that's not 4th ED.  In 4th ED you can cast Magic Missile (if you choose it, or Thunderwave, or Scorching Burst) At-Will . . . once per round.
Magic Missile is like the staff bolt in DAO.
Except it can miss.

Modifié par MerinTB, 31 décembre 2009 - 04:29 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

I am glomy about 4e. I suppose it would make a good anime-based game and I am sure it will translate to the computer seamlessly, but as a tabletop RPG I find it decidedly lacking in flavour. After about 15 sessions our group universally decided to shelf 4e and move on to games whee characters actually have...character.

[fantasypisces]

I guess we differ in opinion. Sten would have 8 Charisma. Negative modifier for sure (seeing as how Charisma is based on first impressions - and I have always hated Sten until he was well into the warm range).

[Merlik]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

I am glomy about 4e. I suppose it would make a good anime-based game and I am sure it will translate to the computer seamlessly, but as a tabletop RPG I find it decidedly lacking in flavour. After about 15 sessions our group universally decided to shelf 4e and move on to games whee characters actually have...character.

I do agree that 4e tends to make you focus more on the rules and less on character.

[MerinTB]

Merlik wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

I am glomy about 4e. I suppose it would make a good anime-based game and I am sure it will translate to the computer seamlessly, but as a tabletop RPG I find it decidedly lacking in flavour. After about 15 sessions our group universally decided to shelf 4e and move on to games whee characters actually have...character.

I do agree that 4e tends to make you focus more on the rules and less on character.

More so than 3.5?  Really?  Or 2nd Edition?  Or 1st?

Compare the PHB and DMG of each edition, and you'll find remarkably little in ANY of those books about "acting in character", "developing a good backstory for your character", "personality quirks for your NPCs" or the like.  The point of those RULE books are to give you the RULES for the game.

Honestly, 4E simplifies character creation, make combat easier to understand and the game as a whole more accessible to new players and new dungeon masters.

All editions of D&D put out later books (whether DMG2's or Campaign Sourcebooks or World Books (FR, Eberron, etc.)) that would delve more into the game world, fleshing out PCs and NPCs, tips on how to run a game, on how to role-play, etc.

The lack of character comes only from the group of players and the DM, not from the books.  It is up to the gamers, not the game's rule books, to add all the acting and personality and story to your sessions.

Modifié par MerinTB, 31 décembre 2009 - 05:32 .

[Merlik]

MerinTB wrote...

Merlik wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

I am glomy about 4e. I suppose it would make a good anime-based game and I am sure it will translate to the computer seamlessly, but as a tabletop RPG I find it decidedly lacking in flavour. After about 15 sessions our group universally decided to shelf 4e and move on to games whee characters actually have...character.

I do agree that 4e tends to make you focus more on the rules and less on character.

More so than 3.5?  Really?  Or 2nd Edition?  Or 1st?

Compare the PHB and DMG of each edition, and you'll find remarkably little in ANY of those books about "acting in character", "developing a good backstory for your character", "personality quirks for your NPCs" or the like.  The point of those RULE books are to give you the RULES for the game.

Honestly, 4E simplifies character creation, make combat easier to understand and the game as a whole more accessible to new players and new dungeon masters.

All editions of D&D put out later books (whether DMG2's or Campaign Sourcebooks or World Books (FR, Eberron, etc.)) that would delve more into the game world, fleshing out PCs and NPCs, tips on how to run a game, on how to role-play, etc.

The lack of character comes only from the group of players and the DM, not from the books.  It is up to the gamers, not the game's rule books, to add all the acting and personality and story to your sessions.

It is partly or mostly the groups fault, but the increased number of options people have with the new rules gets everyone into maximizing their effectiveness. Everyone is more aware of map placement, terrain, character position, etc. because all these things influence their power options.  It very easy to start focusing on the battle like a board game.

[hereticeyes]

mmu1 wrote...

Now, I actually dislike 4E more than most, but that's flat-out false. Healing surges only recover a relatively small amount of health, and are really only used for healing during combat.

...and to be honest, we'd have been lucky if the Bioware devs came up with something as good as 4E. Making a good RPG system is really hard, like this first effort of theirs clearly shows. Not that they're alone in this, most pen and paper RPG systems are garbage too, and those only require the rules, without a hugely complex piece of software to go with it... Hell, I can't really rememebr the last CRPG I played where the system was actually something I enjoyed, and not just put up with, because the game overall was good enough.

I an unfamiliar with 4E, but I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed Bioware's talent and spell system.

-Every talent has a purpose, the talent repetitions such as the frostbolt rank 1, frostbolt rank 2 types are kept to a minimum
-There are 3 classes, and you can create several playstyles within each class.
-I like how magic and healing and restricted to one class. It fits well lore-wise.

There are a lot of abstractions in Bioware's system. Such as a common inventory for everyone, mana and health regen between battles. That cuts back a lot on the tedious micromanagement.

Furthermore, mages no longer have to choose between:

-holding back their spells during a fight
-go all out and do an 8 hour rest between battles

I have yet to see a 4E game implementation. It might be good in its own right, but I feel that the Bio gaming system blends well within its lore setting, which I find to be superior to Dnd 3.0's lore.

posted by steel_dragon
if DA:O was a dnd game we would be waiting for the current lawsuit to
be over to get the game, and we would have to settle with a T rating.

Steeldragon raised an excellent point. If Bioware used a system owned by Wizards of the Coast, then Bioware must abide by lore restrictions set by WOTC, on top on violence and mature subjects restrictions.

Remember NWN2? Obsidian could not allow an option to destroy the Wall of Souls because that would conflict too much with WOTC's lore.

On the other hand, Dragon Age allows a lot of freedom if the player wishes to reshape the world.

Modifié par hereticeyes, 31 décembre 2009 - 06:36 .