So far we know of 3 Eluvian mirrors in the Dragon Age universe. The one from the Dalish elf origin story, the one from Witch Hunt that Morrigan (and your Warden) walks through & Merril's from DA2 (however this could be the same mirror from the Dalish elf origin story but I doesn't look like it)
Anyway we all can assume that the Eluvian will play some important role in the future if not in DA3. My thought on the Eluvian is that it is what the Tevinter magistars used to enter the black city. While Morrigan, Flemeth, possible Old God Baby & all other things will be key things in DA3 & beyond I think the Eluvian will play a hudge role in the future.
It's unknown how many Eluvian's there are and what exacly is on the other side of them but I would like to see what possibilities it holds. Leave your own thoughts on this
The Eluvian
Débuté par
DRobin13
, oct. 17 2012 07:12
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#2
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 08:34
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I find it funny that when the elves try to use it, like Tamlen and Merrill, it's depicted as a dangerous thing that only leads to destruction. But when a human uses it, like Morrigan, suddenly it works fine. Apparently humans can utilize elven technology better than the elves can.
(Don't even get me started on the human Finn easily guessing that the elven word for "mirror" was Eluvian, where the Dalish Ariane was not able to do it. We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.)
Since it's an elven artifact, I'd like to see how it affects the lives of elves everywhere, Dalish and Alienage alike (preferably improve their lives, but you never know), rather than just the lives of humans. It's possible it can be a portal to the Black City, I'll give you that, (Tamlen seemed to imply as much when he touched it), but I would also be interested if its utilization somehow brought on great social change for elves the way Merrill hoped.
(Don't even get me started on the human Finn easily guessing that the elven word for "mirror" was Eluvian, where the Dalish Ariane was not able to do it. We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.)
Since it's an elven artifact, I'd like to see how it affects the lives of elves everywhere, Dalish and Alienage alike (preferably improve their lives, but you never know), rather than just the lives of humans. It's possible it can be a portal to the Black City, I'll give you that, (Tamlen seemed to imply as much when he touched it), but I would also be interested if its utilization somehow brought on great social change for elves the way Merrill hoped.
Modifié par Faerunner, 17 octobre 2012 - 08:36 .
#3
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 09:32
daffl5
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i have a feeling tamlen isn't dead... just transported through the eluvian
#4
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 09:42
Fyurian2
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Faerunner wrote...
I find it funny that when the elves try to use it, like Tamlen
Not a mage, and that eluvian was responsible for tainting a Dalish Warden leading to them no choice but attempt the Joining and become a Grey Warden if they wanted to survive.
and Merrill, it's depicted as a dangerous thing that only leads to destruction.
The two Eluvians she's been involved with were dangerous.
But when a human uses it, like Morrigan, suddenly it works fine. Apparently humans can utilize elven technology better than the elves can.
Dalish aren't the same as the elves of Elvhenan.
Understand why, and it makes sense that they can't use eluvians. Plus, it took a demon to tell Merril how to repair the Eluvian.
Plus, Morrigan is an Apostate raised and trained by Flemeth, and more than likely found
(Don't even get me started on the human Finn easily guessing that the elven word for "mirror" was Eluvian, where the Dalish Ariane was not able to do it. We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.)
Finn's an expert with ancient Tevinter Imperium within the Fereldan Circle. No doubt including information not made available to the public, and certainly not elves.
The Tevinter Imperium used them too, and were the ones responsible for tainting them.
Since it's an elven artifact, I'd like to see how it affects the lives of elves everywhere, Dalish and Alienage alike (preferably improve their lives, but you never know), rather than just the lives of humans. It's possible it can be a portal to the Black City, I'll give you that, (Tamlen seemed to imply as much when he touched it), but I would also be interested if its utilization somehow brought on great social change for elves the way Merrill hoped.
I think it would work better if (somehow) the knowledge behind their construction and how they work was found/recoverd, and allowed the Dalish to begin building a new network of eluvians.
#5
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 09:51
Maria Caliban
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Faerunner wrote...
We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.
Yeah, BioWare, stop picking on the Dalish. Show a bit of sensitivity in your portrayal of elves.
Um... If you play a Dalish Warden, you find him later on and kill him.daffl5 wrote...
i have a feeling tamlen isn't dead... just transported through the eluvian
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 octobre 2012 - 09:58 .
#6
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 09:55
whykikyouwhy
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I've played around with a few theories in the past with regard to the Eluvian, and the magisters/Golden-Black City. Specifically with the Eluvian being a portal/connector between locations.
**Slight spoilers for Legacy**
- The magister made an assault on the Golden/Black City via the Eluvians, or one large one in Kirkwall (since Kirkwall is the Hellmouth of Thedas). But in using the Eluvians, and upon being tainted (if we figure that the taint was part of the blackness Corypheus refers to as being in/of the City), they traversed back through the mirrors, bringing the taint with them into the waking world.
- The assault on the Golden/Black City was made from five different points – one for each magister. This may explain why Corypheus was alone in his imprisonment. It may also tie in the existence of the Nexus Golem. Nexus meaning “connected series or group, or means of connection” – perhaps there was a golem at each entry point into the City.
I hope that we'll get some more hints, clues, details, etc. about the nature of the mirrors in the next game.
**Slight spoilers for Legacy**
- The magister made an assault on the Golden/Black City via the Eluvians, or one large one in Kirkwall (since Kirkwall is the Hellmouth of Thedas). But in using the Eluvians, and upon being tainted (if we figure that the taint was part of the blackness Corypheus refers to as being in/of the City), they traversed back through the mirrors, bringing the taint with them into the waking world.
- The assault on the Golden/Black City was made from five different points – one for each magister. This may explain why Corypheus was alone in his imprisonment. It may also tie in the existence of the Nexus Golem. Nexus meaning “connected series or group, or means of connection” – perhaps there was a golem at each entry point into the City.
I hope that we'll get some more hints, clues, details, etc. about the nature of the mirrors in the next game.
#7
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Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 10:24
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Fyurian2 wrote...
Not a mage, and that eluvian was responsible for tainting a Dalish Warden leading to them no choice but attempt the Joining and become a Grey Warden if they wanted to survive.
The two Eluvians she's been involved with were dangerous.
Dalish aren't the same as the elves of Elvhenan.
Understand why, and it makes sense that they can't use eluvians. Plus, it took a demon to tell Merril how to repair the Eluvian.
I'm not commenting on the in-universe reasons for why things happen, but why the real-world writers chose to write the course of events as they did. I find it mighty convenient that every Eluvian we've seen elven characters mess with happen to be dangerous and difficult to activate (and they're depicted as naive fools for messing with powers too great for them to understand), whereas the one time a human uses it solves it easily (with a stolen Dalish book, no less) and is completely fine. Apparently the recurring "Eluvian is dangerous" theme only applies to elven characters.
Finn's an expert with ancient Tevinter Imperium within the Fereldan Circle. No doubt including information not made available to the public, and certainly not elves.
The Tevinter Imperium used them too, and were the ones responsible for tainting them.
In other words, Humans Are Just Better. Better access to information and better able to decipher ancient texts not relevent to them. The Dalish spend their whole lives collecting and preserving elven lore, so we've got to make sure to include a scene where a human is able to effortlessly decipher a simple elven word that the Dalish have not been able to figure out from centuries of study (despite it being their language), and have the said Dalish in the room express shock and embarrassment over it. The human Circle mage out-Dalishes the Dalish and we're supposed to laugh at her expense.
I'd be willing to give this one scene a pass if not for the frequent "Take take, Dalish!" jabs throughout the entire series.
I think it would work better if (somehow) the knowledge behind their construction and how they work was found/recoverd, and allowed the Dalish to begin building a new network of eluvians.
That's alsowhat I meant when I said utilizing it. But sure, let's toss it in.
#8
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 10:34
whykikyouwhy
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Well, in the context of this thread and the theories posted regarding the magisters, I would say that the danger extends beyond the elves.Faerunner wrote...
Apparently the recurring "Eluvian is dangerous" theme only applies to elven characters.
#9
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 10:36
fchopin
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DRobin13 wrote...
So far we know of 3 Eluvian mirrors in the Dragon Age universe.
I only know of two mirrors as i have not played the witch hunt and that is not part of my game.
#10
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 11:04
Urzon
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I thought the Eluvian Merrill had was made for a shard of the one found by the Dalish Warden... Because, I doubt the Keeper would allow Merrill to transport a large tainted mirror all the way to Kirkwall from Ferelden.
@Fyurian2
Merrill repaired the Eluvian herself through research. The only thing she got from the demon was the knowledge of how to use blood magic, so she could cleanse the Eluvian shard of the Taint. She would have needed tons of lyrium, which is hard to get, to do it any other way. After she learned how to use blood magic, she had no further contact with the demon until Act III.
@Fyurian2
Merrill repaired the Eluvian herself through research. The only thing she got from the demon was the knowledge of how to use blood magic, so she could cleanse the Eluvian shard of the Taint. She would have needed tons of lyrium, which is hard to get, to do it any other way. After she learned how to use blood magic, she had no further contact with the demon until Act III.
Modifié par Urzon, 17 octobre 2012 - 11:05 .
#11
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 11:04
Fyurian2
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[quote]Faerunner wrote...
[quote]Fyurian2 wrote...
Finn's an expert with ancient Tevinter Imperium within the Fereldan Circle. No doubt including information not made available to the public, and certainly not elves.
The Tevinter Imperium used them too, and were the ones responsible for tainting them.[/quote]
In other words, Humans Are Just Better. Better access to information and better able to decipher ancient texts not relevent to them. The Dalish spend their whole lives collecting and preserving elven lore, [/quote]
No, humans just conquered the elves, destroyed the capitol of their homeland and stole/concealed/destroyed much of their knowledge whilst enslaving any they didn't kill.
Humans did all that again with the Exalted March against the Dalish Elves, who had already begun the extremely long and hard work of recovering their heritage, culture and even their ancestral language from Elvhanan.
The Dalish have to contend with humans in general, when it comes to their own heritage.
Specifically, the Tevinter Imperium and the Chantry.
The Chantry is the harder of the two for the Dalish. Don't think they want another Exalted March being declared against them.
Better access to information and better able to decipher ancient texts not relevent to them. The Dalish spend their whole lives collecting and preserving elven lore, so we've got to make sure to include a scene where a human is able to effortlessly decipher a simple elven word that the Dalish have not been able to figure out from centuries of study (despite it being their language), and have the said Dalish in the room express shock and embarrassment over it. The human Circle mage out-Dalishes the Dalish and we're supposed to laugh at her expense.[/quote]
The Dalish themselves, who are now divided into nomadic clans that are basically clan first, race second by necessity, do not have a complete language. They're recovering the language of their ancestors.
At this point however I'm going to stop.
There's not point in using reason when someone's blinded by their ranting.
[quote]I'd be willing to give this one scene a pass if not for the frequent "Take take, Dalish!" jabs throughout the entire series.
[quote]I think it would work better if (somehow) the knowledge behind their construction and how they work was found/recoverd, and allowed the Dalish to begin building a new network of eluvians.[/quote]
That's alsowhat I meant when I said utilizing it. But sure, let's toss it in.
[/quote]
Ah, apologies, thought you meant only the existing eluvians.
[quote]Fyurian2 wrote...
Finn's an expert with ancient Tevinter Imperium within the Fereldan Circle. No doubt including information not made available to the public, and certainly not elves.
The Tevinter Imperium used them too, and were the ones responsible for tainting them.[/quote]
In other words, Humans Are Just Better. Better access to information and better able to decipher ancient texts not relevent to them. The Dalish spend their whole lives collecting and preserving elven lore, [/quote]
No, humans just conquered the elves, destroyed the capitol of their homeland and stole/concealed/destroyed much of their knowledge whilst enslaving any they didn't kill.
Humans did all that again with the Exalted March against the Dalish Elves, who had already begun the extremely long and hard work of recovering their heritage, culture and even their ancestral language from Elvhanan.
The Dalish have to contend with humans in general, when it comes to their own heritage.
Specifically, the Tevinter Imperium and the Chantry.
The Chantry is the harder of the two for the Dalish. Don't think they want another Exalted March being declared against them.
Better access to information and better able to decipher ancient texts not relevent to them. The Dalish spend their whole lives collecting and preserving elven lore, so we've got to make sure to include a scene where a human is able to effortlessly decipher a simple elven word that the Dalish have not been able to figure out from centuries of study (despite it being their language), and have the said Dalish in the room express shock and embarrassment over it. The human Circle mage out-Dalishes the Dalish and we're supposed to laugh at her expense.[/quote]
The Dalish themselves, who are now divided into nomadic clans that are basically clan first, race second by necessity, do not have a complete language. They're recovering the language of their ancestors.
At this point however I'm going to stop.
There's not point in using reason when someone's blinded by their ranting.
[quote]I'd be willing to give this one scene a pass if not for the frequent "Take take, Dalish!" jabs throughout the entire series.
[quote]I think it would work better if (somehow) the knowledge behind their construction and how they work was found/recoverd, and allowed the Dalish to begin building a new network of eluvians.[/quote]
That's alsowhat I meant when I said utilizing it. But sure, let's toss it in.
[/quote]
Ah, apologies, thought you meant only the existing eluvians.
#12
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 11:27
smallwhippet
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Maria Caliban wrote...
Faerunner wrote...
We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.
Yeah, BioWare, stop picking on the Dalish. Show a bit of sensitivity in your portrayal of elves.Um... If you play a Dalish Warden, you find him later on and kill him.daffl5 wrote...
i have a feeling tamlen isn't dead... just transported through the eluvian
Yes. When the camp is invaded by shrieks, one of them turns out to be a corrupted Tamlen. You have a short conversation with him and put him out of his misery.
#13
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 11:27
fchopin
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Urzon wrote...
I thought the Eluvian Merrill had was made for a shard of the one found by the Dalish Warden... Because, I doubt the Keeper would allow Merrill to transport a large tainted mirror all the way to Kirkwall from Ferelden.
Yes it’s the same one so there is only one mirror in the game, my mistake.
#14
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 02:23
Aulis Vaara
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I have two things to add: we don't even know if Morrigan is truly human (Flemeth is not, so where does that leave Morrigan?). Secondly, Flemeth seems to know more of the Dalish than the Dalish, so it stands to reason that Morrigan also has at least some of that knowledge, if not from her education, then from Flemeth's Grimoire.
Secondly, Morrigan was specifically looking for an untainted Eluvian, so she isn't "better" with Eluvians than the Dalish, she just found the one she was looking for.
Secondly, Morrigan was specifically looking for an untainted Eluvian, so she isn't "better" with Eluvians than the Dalish, she just found the one she was looking for.
#15
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 04:27
marshalleck
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Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter. She was kidnapped by Flemeth and raised as her own. Morrigan is a human with magical ability, trained by Flemeth.Aulis Vaara wrote...
I have two things to add: we don't even know if Morrigan is truly human (Flemeth is not, so where does that leave Morrigan?). Secondly, Flemeth seems to know more of the Dalish than the Dalish, so it stands to reason that Morrigan also has at least some of that knowledge, if not from her education, then from Flemeth's Grimoire.
Secondly, Morrigan was specifically looking for an untainted Eluvian, so she isn't "better" with Eluvians than the Dalish, she just found the one she was looking for.
I suppose you can be paranoid and skeptical of the exposition delivered by the writers if you want.
I think you're right on the money with Flemeth's knowledge of the Eluvians. If there is anyone alive in the current time of DA who would know what the Eluvians are and how to use them, surely it would be Flemeth. She's kind of been around for a while, you know? Using the Eluvian was probably part of her plan (and training) with Morrigan, which is why she wasn't surprised that's where Morrigan fled.
Modifié par marshalleck, 17 octobre 2012 - 04:30 .
#16
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 04:35
LobselVith8
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Faerunner wrote...
I find it funny that when the elves try to use it, like Tamlen and Merrill, it's depicted as a dangerous thing that only leads to destruction. But when a human uses it, like Morrigan, suddenly it works fine. Apparently humans can utilize elven technology better than the elves can.
I've never bought into the idea that Merrill was wrong. She successfully cleansed the shard, she was proactive about the plight of the People while her brethern were simply wandering aimlessly, and she never abused her abilities or knowledge.
Faerunner wrote...
(Don't even get me started on the human Finn easily guessing that the elven word for "mirror" was Eluvian, where the Dalish Ariane was not able to do it. We get it, BioWare. You hate the Dalish and you want to stick it to them every chance you can get. Please stop it.)
That does remind me of how science fiction and fantasy often portrays humans as "correct," even when it contradicts the cultural norms of the non-humans in question by imposing their own values and views on the respective character.
Faerunner wrote...
Since it's an elven artifact, I'd like to see how it affects the lives of elves everywhere, Dalish and Alienage alike (preferably improve their lives, but you never know), rather than just the lives of humans. It's possible it can be a portal to the Black City, I'll give you that, (Tamlen seemed to imply as much when he touched it), but I would also be interested if its utilization somehow brought on great social change for elves the way Merrill hoped.
I think Tamlen said he saw an underground city, which could imply the kingdom of Arlathan, which was sunk by the Magisters.
#17
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 04:50
brushyourteeth
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marshalleck wrote...
Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter. She was kidnapped by Flemeth and raised as her own. Morrigan is a human with magical ability, trained by Flemeth.Aulis Vaara wrote...
I have two things to add: we don't even know if Morrigan is truly human (Flemeth is not, so where does that leave Morrigan?).
I suppose you can be paranoid and skeptical of the exposition delivered by the writers if you want.
Okay, I've heard this before, but if Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter, why doesn't she correct Alistair when he tells her she looks just like Flemeth?
It sure seemed to me when she was explaining to the Warden that Flemeth takes the bodies of her daughters that it was somehow related to those male "guests" she has around the hut every now and then. Flemeth may not be human, but she definitely has a body. *ahem* It may even be one of her old daughters', if that grimoire had any truth to it.
And I guess if anyone could sense magical talent in an infant Flemeth could, but there is something to the idea of bearing a child that will almost certainly share your knack for magic. Especially if there's anything at all to the business about taking one as a new host body.
#18
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 04:57
LobselVith8
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marshalleck wrote...
Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter. She was kidnapped by Flemeth and raised as her own. Morrigan is a human with magical ability, trained by Flemeth.
Actually, The Warden can ask Morrigan if she is Flemeth's biological daughter, and she admits she doesn't know.
#19
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:00
brushyourteeth
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And when Aveline mentions the Chasind legend that she steals children, Flemeth answers "Bah! As if I had nothing better to do!"LobselVith8 wrote...
marshalleck wrote...
Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter. She was kidnapped by Flemeth and raised as her own. Morrigan is a human with magical ability, trained by Flemeth.
Actually, The Warden can ask Morrigan if she is Flemeth's biological daughter, and she admits she doesn't know.
... I don't exactly trust Flemeth, but I don't think she outright lies either.
Modifié par brushyourteeth, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:00 .
#20
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:17
DRobin13
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Faerunner wrote...
The Tevinter Imperium used them too, and were the ones responsible for tainting them.
This encourages me to think that the Eluvians lead to the Gold/Black City. This would be an interesting thing to explore in the future especially considering if your Warden went through the Eluvian w/ Morrigan.
#21
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:34
Rpgfantasyplayer
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I have never heard that if Morrigan is not or is Flemeth's daughter. Morrigan doesn't know for sure if she is but nothing has ever come out saying that she definately is not Flemeth's daughter. It is one of they many mysteries of the DA universe.
#22
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:35
marshalleck
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I don't specifically remember this. Are you sure it wasn't intended as a (clumsy) sarcastic jab on Alistair's part? He and Morrigan don't really get along or like each other very much, and saying she looks like a wrinkled swamp hag sounds like something he'd say to her.brushyourteeth wrote...
Okay, I've heard this before, but if Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter, why doesn't she correct Alistair when he tells her she looks just like Flemeth?
If that's how Morrigan understood the comment to be intended, it would explain why she didn't start talking about her relationship to Flemeth. But like I said, I don't remember this at all.
Modifié par marshalleck, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:37 .
#23
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:43
Bfler
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I think, she is Flemeth's daughter and Maric the father, but only Flemeth knows it and that is why she also rescues Alistair from the tower. Remember when Maric is in her hut for a while in Stolen Throne.
And the arguments between her and Alistair are typical characteristics of siblings.
And the arguments between her and Alistair are typical characteristics of siblings.
Modifié par Bfler, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:53 .
#24
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:43
brushyourteeth
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marshalleck wrote...
I don't specifically remember this. Are you sure it wasn't intended as a (clumsy) sarcastic jab on Alistair's part? He and Morrigan don't really get along or like each other very much.brushyourteeth wrote...
Okay, I've heard this before, but if Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter, why doesn't she correct Alistair when he tells her she looks just like Flemeth?
Here we go -
(forgive the lazy linkage - I'm in a hurry).
#25
Posté 17 octobre 2012 - 05:46
marshalleck
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Yeah--I think that's pretty much exactly how I called it.brushyourteeth wrote...
marshalleck wrote...
I don't specifically remember this. Are you sure it wasn't intended as a (clumsy) sarcastic jab on Alistair's part? He and Morrigan don't really get along or like each other very much.brushyourteeth wrote...
Okay, I've heard this before, but if Morrigan isn't Flemeth's biological daughter, why doesn't she correct Alistair when he tells her she looks just like Flemeth?
Here we go -
(forgive the lazy linkage - I'm in a hurry).
