330 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

Faerunner wrote...

The elves sacked Val Roeyaux during the war. That is an historical fact and no more open for discussion than the conquest of Lisbon during the Napoleonic Wars.

No, the former is fiction while the latter is reality. You might want to learn to tell the difference between the two.

In-universe, whatever accounts that say the elves sacked Val Roeyaux were written by the Orlaisians, who were just as biased as the Dalish. Since they won the war afterwards, they could write history however they wanted, and so could try to depict their enemies as ruthlessly and themselves as sympathetically as they wanted. 

IF the elves managed to get to Val Roeyaux, I seriously doubt it was in as great a numbers as you imply or created the bloodbath you make it out to be. Not to mention that it makes no sense for them to invade the enemy's capital city if they weren't already at war and had nothing else to lose.

 
The sacking of Val Royeaux was well into the war.  Here's the course of events; Something sets off war between the Orlesians and the Dalish, Dalish are winning, Dalish push forward all the way to Val Royeaux, Orlais uses the attack on the seat of the dominant religion to get other nations to help them, Dalish lose.

The attack that is in question is Red Crossing.  The Orlesians say that was what sparked the war and the Dalish say, not much really. 

[Zkyire]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Good idea to get this discussion back on topic. I think the Templar v. Mage discussion has been beaten to death a hundred times over already.

Blood magic is seen as abhorrent in Andrastian society, but so is ordinary magic. Magic is already vilified in Andrastian society, so mages will already be villains in the eyes of many Andrastians. The issue I see is that templars can nullify the abilities of a mage unless it's blood magic. It's a matter of using a school of magic that permits mages to fight against the templars without their abilities shutting down their powers. I'd condone blood magic use in Inquisition, although I wouldn't force everyone to use it.

Doubt the Dalish would blood magic en mass, but I imagine some apostates might.

In terms of pure survival on a small-scale? I'd condone blood magic, but only if the Templars are committing atrocities. And only as an absolute last resort.

The only reason the magisters of Tevinter can get away with blood magic is because they're already in power. The mages of the south arent in that position, so if they resort to this while they're still at war with the Templars, they'll lose whatever little popular support they had. Meaning very few if any people would be willing to take pity on them and hide them from Templar patrols.

Also why the hell are people talking about a war between Humans and the Elves in a thread about Mages vs Templars?

Modifié par Zkyire, 18 octobre 2012 - 01:17 .

[xsamplexample]

 friends/family of mages would support them, as well as the qunari, perhaps?  Any mages could find refuge with them.  theytoo, have mages, afterall.  

[Icinix]

Fools.

[brushyourteeth]

The mabari will support them.

Same as they protested slavery in the Tevinter Imperium by boycotting the country as a whole.

[Vicious]

Also why the hell are people talking about a war between Humans and the Elves in a thread about Mages vs Templars?

To perpetuate the 'chantry is evil and must die' idea. That said, The current divine, Justinia, is nothing but a friend to mages. People should read Asunder.

[Plaintiff]

Any lord or other powerful individual who thinks that magical healing, incredible offensive capability, potions and enchanted goods might be useful to have.

[Plaintiff]

Vicious wrote...

Also why the hell are people talking about a war between Humans and the Elves in a thread about Mages vs Templars?

To perpetuate the 'chantry is evil and must die' idea. That said, The current divine, Justinia, is nothing but a friend to mages. People should read Asunder.

What exactly makes her a friend to mages?

[BouncyFrag]

TBH, I'd rather I didn't have to side with either and be focused on something different such as the Qunari and Teventir.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 18 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[SirDoctorofTARDIS]

Very few will support the mages. According to the codex

"While mages often resent the templars as symbols of the Chantry's control over magic, the people of Thedas see them as saviors and holy warriors, champions of all that is good, armed with piety enough to protect the world from the ravages of foul magic."

In addition the Dalish wouldn't interfere in what they consider a human conflict. Unless they head to Tevinter the mages will have to stand alone.

[Zkyire]

xsamplexample wrote...

 friends/family of mages would support them, as well as the qunari, perhaps?  Any mages could find refuge with them.  theytoo, have mages, afterall.  

First place the Templars will look for missing Mages.

Go back to the houses that they picked the mages up from when they were children.

The only safehouses they'll have are the ones that bore no Mages at all.

Hence why they need popular support. Otherwise they have no supply lines and no reinforcements, and each battle (even if they win said battle) means casualties that they're not replacing. Meaning they'll be inching closer and closer to defeat.

Modifié par Zkyire, 18 octobre 2012 - 10:24 .

[Terrorize69]

Awesomness wrote...

Very few will support the mages. According to the codex

"While mages often resent the templars as symbols of the Chantry's control over magic, the people of Thedas see them as saviors and holy warriors, champions of all that is good, armed with piety enough to protect the world from the ravages of foul magic."

In addition the Dalish wouldn't interfere in what they consider a human conflict. Unless they head to Tevinter the mages will have to stand alone.

The dalish may not have the option to opt out of the war. When the Templars had the circles to police and chantrys to protect, they could never of sparred the resources to hunt down the Dalish as long as they stayed away from cities.

Now Templars have no circles to manage, no chantrys they feel honor bound to protect. There's nothing to stop them now hunting the Dalish down in their war on mages.

The common people did see the Templars as protectors and holy warriors yes, then they abandoned the Chantry. How will most people feel about holy warriors abandoning those that spread their faith?

[ladyofpayne]

Not me. I knows them too close.

[vortex216]

i think every naton will eventually have to pick a side. mages may get some help from the chantry and the divine... maybe. Par Vollen and Tevinter might agree to stop fighting to aid their side of thewar. Qunari picking templars, tevinter picking mages ( regadless, they would fight). Orlais is
busy with its civil war. no doubt some mages wll help templars and some templars will help mages.The dalish would probably help mages, templars might get help from the seekers. and oh
yeah, my main character will support mages. thats gotta count for half a small nation AT LEAST.

[DarthLaxian]

brushyourteeth wrote...
Agree! Justinia may continue to help the mages if they let her. The Tevinter Imperium?... my guess is not so much. Those magisters have enough competition amonst each other already and not necessarily a sense of mage pride. They'll step in if there's power or resources to be gained. Alistair's friendly to mages (especially considering who his mom probably is), but since DA canon doesn't exist on the Ferelden monarchy, that may not make much of a difference.

My guess is that the mages stand pretty much alone. But since the Templars were planning to march on Andoral's Reach just a few days after Asunder's prologue, and by the time Cassandra interrogates Varric she's still trying to prevent a war, that probably means they've been doing a decent job of holding their own.

A smart nobleman, one who didn't have need of the Chantry (somewhere like Rivain) would strike while the iron's hot and earn the mages' support for a future coup. That could be the game changer that takes political power solidly out of Orlais' hands.

???

what in the blazes...after watching the anime movie when she did not reward the mages helping her in any way, i would not say she is helping them.

she is just indifferent...maybe i really need to read that book....

greetings LAX
ps: i would say that tevinter and maybe the wild-witches (and other hedge mages) would help them (with their hidden/lost knowledge the circles did not have or that was forbidden to them) because they see a chance to get rid of all the templars (that would still hunt them if they had the chance!)

[GodWood]

xsamplexample wrote...
friends/family of mages would support them, as well as the qunari, perhaps?  Any mages could find refuge with them.  theytoo, have mages, afterall.  

They're more than welcome to join.

Of course they'd have to be prepared to give up the luxurious lifestyle they had in the Circle.

[Xilizhra]

Zkyire wrote...

xsamplexample wrote...

 friends/family of mages would support them, as well as the qunari, perhaps?  Any mages could find refuge with them.  theytoo, have mages, afterall.  

First place the Templars will look for missing Mages.

Go back to the houses that they picked the mages up from when they were children.

The only safehouses they'll have are the ones that bore no Mages at all.

Hence why they need popular support. Otherwise they have no supply lines and no reinforcements, and each battle (even if they win said battle) means casualties that they're not replacing. Meaning they'll be inching closer and closer to defeat.

Given that the mages are still fighting this war despite that and being outnumbered, I suspect they haven't lost public support. This may be because the templars are becoming more and more extreme in their actions, at least enough for the commoners to not bother supporting them against the mages, or maybe the mages won sympathy on their own.

[Demyx_IX]

Oh I'll definitely support them. Mages is where it's at.

[Terrorize69]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

So wait how many groups are ther?
Mages that want to let go of the circle
Mages that support the circle.
Rebel Templar
Templars
Do Tevinter Mages differ from the mages that want to be free from the circle?

The Divine, Chantry and loyal Seekers. Most likely the inquisition is the name given to this group.

Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order are the anti mage faction in the war.

Independent Mages are another faction. Although we don't know how organized they are, could just be numerous small groups, or a united faction under a form of leadership, like a council of first enchancters.

Blood mage fanatic groups will most likely make a large enough appearence. Although in a Templar war, blood magic is mages best option for survival. A united mage faction may have blood mages working for their cause.

City elven and common people will be neutrual, city guards and armies will side with different sides depending on the region and area.

Dalish will try stay out of the war, but seeing as clan leaders are mages.. Templars won't discriminate, a rouge mage is a rouge mage. They may ally with mages, enemy or my enemy is my friend.

Dwarfs can swing either way, depends how desperate Templars will be for lyrium.

Tev while busy with the Quanri, will have their eye on the conflict and most likely will take advantage, either by going pro mage or anti-white divine.

[Zkyire]

Xilizhra wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

xsamplexample wrote...

 friends/family of mages would support them, as well as the qunari, perhaps?  Any mages could find refuge with them.  theytoo, have mages, afterall.  

First place the Templars will look for missing Mages.

Go back to the houses that they picked the mages up from when they were children.

The only safehouses they'll have are the ones that bore no Mages at all.

Hence why they need popular support. Otherwise they have no supply lines and no reinforcements, and each battle (even if they win said battle) means casualties that they're not replacing. Meaning they'll be inching closer and closer to defeat.

Given that the mages are still fighting this war despite that and being outnumbered, I suspect they haven't lost public support. This may be because the templars are becoming more and more extreme in their actions, at least enough for the commoners to not bother supporting them against the mages, or maybe the mages won sympathy on their own.

The Chantry telling people not to get involved one way or the other, or outright demonising the Templars for going rogue could play a big part in helping the Mages fight on an even field.

I suppose though that the biggest help for them is that without Chantry support, the Templars can't rely on a huge amount of help either.

[brushyourteeth]

Plaintiff wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Also why the hell are people talking about a war between Humans and the Elves in a thread about Mages vs Templars?

To perpetuate the 'chantry is evil and must die' idea. That said, The current divine, Justinia, is nothing but a friend to mages. People should read Asunder.

What exactly makes her a friend to mages?

It would take hecka spoilers to explain that, but if you're really interested, feel free to PM me and I'll explain as much as I can. 

[LobselVith8]

Zkyire wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Good idea to get this discussion back on topic. I think the Templar v. Mage discussion has been beaten to death a hundred times over already.

Blood magic is seen as abhorrent in Andrastian society, but so is ordinary magic. Magic is already vilified in Andrastian society, so mages will already be villains in the eyes of many Andrastians. The issue I see is that templars can nullify the abilities of a mage unless it's blood magic. It's a matter of using a school of magic that permits mages to fight against the templars without their abilities shutting down their powers. I'd condone blood magic use in Inquisition, although I wouldn't force everyone to use it.

Doubt the Dalish would blood magic en mass, but I imagine some apostates might. 

In terms of pure survival on a small-scale? I'd condone blood magic, but only if the Templars are committing atrocities. And only as an absolute last resort.

My main argument for blood magic is that templars can nullify the abilities of a mage otherwise; we see Meredith use her abilities to prevent the saarebas from using his magic. Blood magic is the only form of magic (that we are currently aware about) that can be used by mages without the templars shutting it down.

Zkyire wrote...

The only reason the magisters of Tevinter can get away with blood magic is because they're already in power. The mages of the south arent in that position, so if they resort to this while they're still at war with the Templars, they'll lose whatever little popular support they had. Meaning very few if any people would be willing to take pity on them and hide them from Templar patrols.

Given what the Chantry preaches about mages, I have to wonder how much support they even have. According to the Chantry, the templars' duties are sacred, to the point where even the nobility can't intervene, and interfering in them is an offense against the Maker.

Zkyire wrote...

Also why the hell are people talking about a war between Humans and the Elves in a thread about Mages vs Templars? 

Actually, this isn't even a Mages v. Templars thread. It's supposed to be about what groups may likely side with the mages, but it seems like discussing mages always leads to the dichotomy between the mages and the templars.