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[Terrorize69]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Thats what the Chantry most likely believe, the Seekers however believe its the Chantry who has lost its way in the makers followings.

It could also be wounded pride, they failed their duty in keeping the mages in check. I'm guessing a new Lord Seeker will be in charge of the Seekers/Templars, maybe its Cullen!

If Cullen developed a new taste for mage brutality, that would definitely be an interesting twist to his story. He's had his "mages should die" moments in the past and always been able to more or less work past them and see them as humans(/elves) again. As he is now, I doubt he'd be ruthless enough to impress the rest of the Order 2.0, but you never know, right?

I think it's more likely that he's hanging out in a damp cell for insubordination or face-down in a tankard self-medicating his PTSD somewhere, but the writers will tell the story they want to tell. 

Guess it depends if he confesses or is ratted out to the order for not siding with Merideth in the end, but then, no one did. So guess can rule out someone snitching.

Could be likely he got field promoted to Knight Commander when reinforcements arrived in Kirkwall, maybe even promoted to a Seeker . If peace is what the Chantry/Inquisitor want to aim for, a high ranked Cullen in the Templar-Seeker forces may be usefull.

Or getting smashed in the hanged man drowning his sorrows lol

[brushyourteeth]

Terrorize69 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Thats what the Chantry most likely believe, the Seekers however believe its the Chantry who has lost its way in the makers followings.

It could also be wounded pride, they failed their duty in keeping the mages in check. I'm guessing a new Lord Seeker will be in charge of the Seekers/Templars, maybe its Cullen!

If Cullen developed a new taste for mage brutality, that would definitely be an interesting twist to his story. He's had his "mages should die" moments in the past and always been able to more or less work past them and see them as humans(/elves) again. As he is now, I doubt he'd be ruthless enough to impress the rest of the Order 2.0, but you never know, right?

I think it's more likely that he's hanging out in a damp cell for insubordination or face-down in a tankard self-medicating his PTSD somewhere, but the writers will tell the story they want to tell. 

Guess it depends if he confesses or is ratted out to the order for not siding with Merideth in the end, but then, no one did. So guess can rule out someone snitching.

Could be likely he got field promoted to Knight Commander when reinforcements arrived in Kirkwall, maybe even promoted to a Seeker . If peace is what the Chantry/Inquisitor want to aim for, a high ranked Cullen in the Templar-Seeker forces may be usefull.

Or getting smashed in the hanged man drowning his sorrows lol

LOL, I have to admit I kinda like that last idea the best!

Though having him (or anybody in our party, really) become a new Seeker would be extra cool. We all want to know what the deal is with their mystical powers -- I kinda feel like being there to watch someone deal with those changes would be interesting. And Cullen would make a fantastic double agent - it would make a lot of sense if the protagonist had the power to convince him to choose one side or the other.

... not to make it about Cullen or whatever. So let me ask this: why do you guys think the mages don't turn to the Fade spirits for aid? They're able to communicate with them by going into the Fade. A small number, like Rhys, can even call upon them whenever they want to. Surely they'd be natural allies! Some mages would be (understandably) afraid that they'd instead contact demons tricking them into taking a dangerous offer, but at this point, many of them probably don't care who helps as long as help comes!

[Terrorize69]

Maybe the leaders of the Mages will be those that can play host to a spirit and not corrupt it. 5 leaders representing the 5 virtues, Valour, Compassion, Justice, Faith and Hope.

Would be, interesting if the "Grand" leader of the mages freedom/independence movement would be the one who plays host to the spirit of hope, and sorta moving in a touching way

[TK514]

I support the mages' right to be forcefully quarantined away from the rest of society for the safety of themselves and others, in isolated locales where they can learn to manage their condition and manipulate it for the benefit of society as a whole.

I also support their right to be drafted by legitimate governments and properly deputized organizations in times of need.

[Xilizhra]

TK514 wrote...

I support the mages' right to be forcefully quarantined away from the rest of society for the safety of themselves and others, in isolated locales where they can learn to manage their condition and manipulate it for the benefit of society as a whole.

I also support their right to be drafted by legitimate governments and properly deputized organizations in times of need.

Happily, you won't get that because part of the reason for the mage rebellion was, out of game, to ensure that mages will be able to appear in places outside the Circle, opening more plot points. The templars are going to lose this war; the only question is how.

[TK514]

Xilizhra wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I support the mages' right to be forcefully quarantined away from the rest of society for the safety of themselves and others, in isolated locales where they can learn to manage their condition and manipulate it for the benefit of society as a whole.

I also support their right to be drafted by legitimate governments and properly deputized organizations in times of need.

Happily, you won't get that because part of the reason for the mage rebellion was, out of game, to ensure that mages will be able to appear in places outside the Circle, opening more plot points. The templars are going to lose this war; the only question is how.

The victor of the war remains to be seen.  I suspect it will hinge, in large part, upon the actions of the PC in DA III.  On the other hand, I wouldn't rule out third party intervention that brings a premature halt to the war in the face of a common foe.

[Xilizhra]

The victor of the war remains to be seen. I suspect it will hinge, in large part, upon the actions of the PC in DA III. On the other hand, I wouldn't rule out third party intervention that brings a premature halt to the war in the face of a common foe.

Either way, the mages will no longer be imprisoned in the Circles, or genocided. The templars will have thus failed their primary goal and lost the war.

[Terrorize69]

Not sure the war will be resolved by the end of DA3, could be a 2 parter.

The Templars won't give up untill every mage is killed or captured. The Mages won't give up till they have freedom and independence. It will take one side to suffer a crushing defeat and a sky high death doll to force them out of the war. And even then maybe one will just go underground to rebuild.

Ofcourse maybe a new foe will emerge that will force the Mages and Templars to co-exist if they wish to survive.

[brushyourteeth]

Let's all not forget that neither the mages nor the templars are probably who we'll be most worried about in DAIII. They're both likely pawns in a bigger conflict.

Terrorize69 wrote...

Maybe the leaders of the Mages will be those that can play host to a spirit and not corrupt it. 5 leaders representing the 5 virtues, Valour, Compassion, Justice, Faith and Hope.

Would be, interesting if the "Grand" leader of the mages freedom/independence movement would be the one who plays host to the spirit of hope, and sorta moving in a touching way

This would be pretty much amazing! It's a long shot, but it would be incredible.

[Xilizhra]

Let's all not forget that neither the mages nor the templars are probably who we'll be most worried about in DAIII. They're both likely pawns in a bigger conflict.

Which I find... highly annoying, as I want the templars to be my prime foe. We really don't need some other bigger bad...

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Justinia was working to give the mages freedom, but in their anger many of them refused to see it, and in taking matters in their own hands sent many of their brethren to their graves. An action I can understand, but now that they've made their beds they can sleep in them. All the more so if they refuse her help now.

She was not. She was trying to make their bondage more outwardly palatable so that they'd stop complaining. She wasn't doing a damned thing substantial to reaching mage freedom, practically kowtowing to the templars more than once despite them being subordinate (and a fat lot of good that did her, yes?). 

I feel the same way about Divine Justina V. I don't see why a pro-mage Inquisitor should side with Justina or her Seekers if he seeks to aid the mages in keeping their autonomy from the Chantry or the templars.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Let's all not forget that neither the mages nor the templars are probably who we'll be most worried about in DAIII. They're both likely pawns in a bigger conflict.

Which I find... highly annoying, as I want the templars to be my prime foe. We really don't need some other bigger bad...

Yeah, but to accomplish that the team would have to take away every player's chance to side with them, and the writers would lose the chance to tell the story they've wanted to tell from the beginning.

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Justinia was working to give the mages freedom, but in their anger many of them refused to see it, and in taking matters in their own hands sent many of their brethren to their graves. An action I can understand, but now that they've made their beds they can sleep in them. All the more so if they refuse her help now.

She was not. She was trying to make their bondage more outwardly palatable so that they'd stop complaining. She wasn't doing a damned thing substantial to reaching mage freedom, practically kowtowing to the templars more than once despite them being subordinate (and a fat lot of good that did her, yes?). 

I feel the same way about Divine Justina V. I don't see why a pro-mage Inquisitor should side with Justina or her Seekers if he seeks to aid the mages in keeping their autonomy from the Chantry or the templars.

Well, I see one reason: if she agrees to let the mages keep their autonomy. Maybe there'll be some kind of diplomacy quest...

Yeah, but to accomplish that the team would have to take away every
player's chance to side with them, and the writers would lose the chance
to tell the story they've wanted to tell from the beginning.

Just have pro-mage and pro-Chantry sides. It'd amount to the same thing, in the end.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 17 octobre 2012 - 04:30 .

[MisterJB]

TK514 wrote...

I support the mages' right to be forcefully quarantined away from the rest of society for the safety of themselves and others, in isolated locales where they can learn to manage their condition and manipulate it for the benefit of society as a whole.

I also support their right to be drafted by legitimate governments and properly deputized organizations in times of need.

Sounds like the perfect solution to me.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yeah, but to accomplish that the team would have to take away every
player's chance to side with them, and the writers would lose the chance
to tell the story they've wanted to tell from the beginning.

Just have pro-mage and pro-Chantry sides. It'd amount to the same thing, in the end.

Yeah, I bet we'll see some of that. The downside (if you want to call it that) is that again, neither side will be portrayed as black or white - they will both do things that disappoint or inspire us.

I'm sure I'll play through both scenarios, because I can relate to both points of view on some level. And I really, really enjoy the specific content. Learning more about Meredith made the pro-Templar playthrough worth it.

[esper]

Xilizhra wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Justinia was working to give the mages freedom, but in their anger many of them refused to see it, and in taking matters in their own hands sent many of their brethren to their graves. An action I can understand, but now that they've made their beds they can sleep in them. All the more so if they refuse her help now.

She was not. She was trying to make their bondage more outwardly palatable so that they'd stop complaining. She wasn't doing a damned thing substantial to reaching mage freedom, practically kowtowing to the templars more than once despite them being subordinate (and a fat lot of good that did her, yes?). 

I feel the same way about Divine Justina V. I don't see why a pro-mage Inquisitor should side with Justina or her Seekers if he seeks to aid the mages in keeping their autonomy from the Chantry or the templars.

Well, I see one reason: if she agrees to let the mages keep their autonomy. Maybe there'll be some kind of diplomacy quest...

At this point I just doesn't trust the chantry to uphold that deal. Even if Justina makes some kind of 100 percent pro-mage deal with the mages, who is to say that the next Divine won't just go back on that word. There are enough bigotry and Petrices in the chantry, and all who has showns such traits have been on at least mother rank meaning that those traits doesn't prevent you from rising in rank.
Even if the Divine means well, I simply don't trust that she has control of the people in her command.

[brushyourteeth]

Anyway, the thread's getting pretty off-topic, and even though I'm not the OP I think it's a really interesting discussion.

It's really meant to be more about which factions in Thedas would reach out to help the mages and why, rather than whether you or I would help them, given the chance.

[LobselVith8]

TK514 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Happily, you won't get that because part of the reason for the mage rebellion was, out of game, to ensure that mages will be able to appear in places outside the Circle, opening more plot points. The templars are going to lose this war; the only question is how. 

The victor of the war remains to be seen.  I suspect it will hinge, in large part, upon the actions of the PC in DA III.  On the other hand, I wouldn't rule out third party intervention that brings a premature halt to the war in the face of a common foe.

Halting the Templar-Mage War to fight a common foe would be the most predictable outcome. It would be pretty tiresome.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah, I bet we'll see some of that. The downside (if you want to call it that) is that again, neither side will be portrayed as black or white - they will both do things that disappoint or inspire us.

Assuming the templars don't suddenly change for the better, they'll remain jet-black for me.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Yeah, I bet we'll see some of that. The downside (if you want to call it that) is that again, neither side will be portrayed as black or white - they will both do things that disappoint or inspire us.

Assuming the templars don't suddenly change for the better, they'll remain jet-black for me.

If the templars want to put the mages in the Circle Towers or kill them, I'll remain opposed to them.

[General User]

The Chantry under Divine Justinia, and the Crown of Ferelden under King Alistair and Queen Arnora, are both major supporters of and advocates for humane treatment for mages.

[marshalleck]

What they need to do to foster a little sympathy for the Templars is make them less caricatures of **** stormtroopers of death. And maybe present a situation with a mage that has gotten out of hand, by the mage's own doing...not because he was crazed by demons and blood magic. Stop taking away their agency and making them blameless. Show a human who has of his own volition abused his supernatural abilities, and why the Templars are needed in the first place. And stop making said Templars look like mindless jackboot thugs who know only murder and mayhem.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 octobre 2012 - 04:45 .

[Xilizhra]

The Chantry under Divine Justinia, and the Crown of Ferelden under King Alistair and Queen Arnora, are both major supporters of and advocates for humane treatment for mages.

Justinia has, up until now, been a major advocate for mage imprisonment. Will this change? We'll see.

What they need to do to foster a little sympathy for the Templars is make them less caricatures of **** stormtroopers of death. And maybe present a situation with a mage that has gotten out of hand, by the mage's own doing...not because he was crazed by demons and blood magic. Stop taking away their agency and making them blameless. And stop making the Templars look like mindless jackboot thugs.

The templars spell out the recruitment of mindless jackbooted thugs in their own codex entry. They specifically look for people of zealous faith without much of an inclination to morality or questioning.

[SlottsMachine]

Death to mages.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Justinia has, up until now, been a major advocate for mage imprisonment. Will this change? We'll see.

Separating mages from society at large while still treating them humanely is quite possible.

The templars spell out the recruitment of mindless jackbooted thugs in their own codex entry. They specifically look for people of zealous faith without much of an inclination to morality or questioning.

Neither of which equals mindless thugs.