330 réponses à ce sujet

[Terrorize69]

Xilizhra, I love that quote in your sig. Why don't mages go around testing to see if children can hold a sword, dagger or a bow then lock them up in a prison. Just to be safe.

[MisterJB]

Terrorize69 wrote...
This. And I've yet to see a elf in the city that isn't a begger or a servant. Or one that worships the Maker. The only reason most citys have them is cheap labour.

A recent post by David Gaider confirmed that elves, any race really, are,theoretically, capable of joining any public organization. It doesn't happen often because humans and elves just don't like each other. Humans prefer when elves are out of sight and ctity elves still prefer to isolate themselves inside their corner of the city.
Elf that isn't a begger or a servant: The elf Hawke rescues from the insane son of a magister. She joins the City Guard.
City Elves that worships the Maker: Pretty much all of them. City elves still attempt to keep their culture alive through things such as the Tree of the People but they don't know the meaning of it. Do you remember the weeding in the City Elf Origin? It was an Andrastian wedding.

[Xilizhra]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Xilizhra, I love that quote in your sig. Why don't mages go around testing to see if children can hold a sword, dagger or a bow then lock them up in a prison. Just to be safe.

If you haven't gotten it, it's from DA2. You need to be a mage and bring Carver to fight Tarohne; he says something about understanding the templar position better and my quote is the humorous response to that.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
You misunderstand; the entire Templar Order is an atrocity that must be eradicated.

Which goes back to only attrocities commited by mages being allowed.

Terrorize69 wrote...

Xilizhra, I love that quote in your sig. Why don't mages go around testing to see if children can hold a sword, dagger or a bow then lock them up in a prison. Just to be safe.

Because a knife is comparable to a spell? Sure, they both kill but the potential of destruction of magic has no match in the world of Dragon Age.
Rockets and nukes both kill. Does that means every country in the world should be allowed to have nukes?

[General User]

Rinshikai10 wrote...

General User wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Justinia has, up until now, been a major advocate for mage imprisonment. Will this change? We'll see.

Separating mages from society at large while still treating them humanely is quite possible.

Quite so.  Divine Justinia understands that the nature and dangers of magic means that, in the interest of the public good, mages simply cannot be allowed the same freedoms and privilages that others enjoy.  Yet, at the same time, she recognizes that mages are people and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.   She see's (correctly) that the Chantry's role is to make sure that both these purposes are served.  As indeed the Chantry is the only organization in Thedas capable of doing so on an international scale.

Aren't the Grey Wardens more widespeard then the Chantry? I know that they are focused on the Darkspawn, but after Awawkening they appear to be showing others that they are capable of governing arlings, nations, or possibly Cicles without allowing faith to rule them.

It's like you said, the Grey Wardens are focused on the darkspawn.  They're a military order, one with a rather specific and narrow scope.  The fact that many within the Warden hierarchy seem to be dedicated to their order acquiring more and more conventional political power and wealth in the various realms of Thedas is, I have to think, a very negative development on the whole.  It certainly doesn't indicate that they can, let alone should, attempt to take over the Chantry's role of protecting mages from the public and the public from mages.  

Modifié par General User, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Xilizhra]

Which goes back to only attrocities commited by mages being allowed.

They don't really exist on the organizational level except in Tevinter, and the qunari are worse, so attacking Tevinter would be a rather bad mistake.

[Terrorize69]

Xilizhra wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Xilizhra,
I love that quote in your sig. Why don't mages go around testing to see
if children can hold a sword, dagger or a bow then lock them up in a
prison. Just to be safe.

If you haven't gotten it, it's
from DA2. You need to be a mage and bring Carver to fight Tarohne; he
says something about understanding the templar position better and my
quote is the humorous response to that.

I remember I think someone else says a similar line also in DA2, Think it was Beth to Aveline.

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Xilizhra, I love that quote in your sig. Why don't mages go around testing to see if children can hold a sword, dagger or a bow then lock them up in a prison. Just to be safe.

Because a knife is comparable to a spell? Sure, they both kill but the potential of destruction of magic has no match in the world of Dragon Age.
Rockets and nukes both kill. Does that means every country in the world should be allowed to have nukes?

In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
They don't really exist on the organizational level except in Tevinter, and the qunari are worse, so attacking Tevinter would be a rather bad mistake.

Freedom for mages means submission for mundanes.

[MisterJB]

Terrorize69 wrote...
In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

A knife can never cause the same amount of destruction as magic. Explain to me how a knife could create something like the darkspawn.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They don't really exist on the organizational level except in Tevinter, and the qunari are worse, so attacking Tevinter would be a rather bad mistake.

Freedom for mages means submission for mundanes.

With luck, in DA3, we'll have a chance to prove that alleged pattern wrong.

[brushyourteeth]

Xilizhra, MisterJB, for the love of all that is awesome - this thread isn't about who's more evil, mages or templars.

It's about which factions might be supporting the mages in DAIII. Can we save the repeated arguments for any of the other dozens of topics that are actually about defending or condemning your favorite group?

[TK514]

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

A knife can never cause the same amount of destruction as magic. Explain to me how a knife could create something like the darkspawn.

I'm also pretty sure that holding a knife doesn't leave you open to demonic possession and all that entails.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They don't really exist on the organizational level except in Tevinter, and the qunari are worse, so attacking Tevinter would be a rather bad mistake.

Freedom for mages means submission for mundanes.

With luck, in DA3, we'll have a chance to prove that alleged pattern wrong.

Only if the game decides to throw all sense of reality out of the window.

[Terrorize69]

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

A knife can never cause the same amount of destruction as magic. Explain to me how a knife could create something like the darkspawn.

Easy, another race's religion will blame knifes for the creation of darkspawn.

That is the chantrys version of how Darkspawn were created, nothing more.

[Xilizhra]

It's about which factions might be supporting the mages in DAIII. Can we save the repeated arguments for any of the other dozens of topics that are actually about defending or condemning your favorite group?

Have we ever been able to do so in the past?

Only if the game decides to throw all sense of reality out of the window.

I suspect you greatly fear having backed the wrong horse all this time, just like you did with Cerberus, no? You seem to have a pattern of endorsing supremacist atrocities that wind up going nowhere productive.

[Terrorize69]

TK514 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

A knife can never cause the same amount of destruction as magic. Explain to me how a knife could create something like the darkspawn.

I'm also pretty sure that holding a knife doesn't leave you open to demonic possession and all that entails.

I hear those lyrium swords can be pretty wild. Just saying.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
I suspect you greatly fear having backed the wrong horse all this time, just like you did with Cerberus, no? You seem to have a pattern of endorsing supremacist atrocities that wind up going nowhere productive.

No, Bioware just has a pattern of ruining their own setting with simplistic, one-sided writing.
I never backed the wrong horse. Cerberus was and is right. The fact that Bioware decided to butcher them because they're not the popular choice doesn't change that.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I suspect you greatly fear having backed the wrong horse all this time, just like you did with Cerberus, no? You seem to have a pattern of endorsing supremacist atrocities that wind up going nowhere productive.

No, Bioware just has a pattern of ruining their own setting with simplistic, one-sided writing.
I never backed the wrong horse. Cerberus was and is right. The fact that Bioware decided to butcher them because they're not the popular choice doesn't change that.

Cerberus is Bioware's, not your fantasy's. It's been shaped by Bioware, and when Bioware showed it to be wrong, that means that it was wrong.

[MisterJB]

Terrorize69 wrote...
Easy, another race's religion will blame knifes for the creation of darkspawn.

That is the chantrys version of how Darkspawn were created, nothing more.

The darkspawn require no sustenance; they don't feed, sleep or breathe; and their reproductive system is 100% dependant on the already existing races.
A race like that could never develop naturally. The darkspawn were created by magic. The Chantry might be wrong and it wasn't Corypheus and his brethren who did so, but magic is still the root of the darkspawn.

[TCBC_Freak]

I'll have to make that call when it's time. Historically I side with the Mages, but if they've fallen into blood magic when the game kicks off, I may have to side with the Templar. I'll have to wait and see. It also depends on my PC, his background and such.

[marshalleck]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I suspect you greatly fear having backed the wrong horse all this time, just like you did with Cerberus, no? You seem to have a pattern of endorsing supremacist atrocities that wind up going nowhere productive.

No, Bioware just has a pattern of ruining their own setting with simplistic, one-sided writing.
I never backed the wrong horse. Cerberus was and is right. The fact that Bioware decided to butcher them because they're not the popular choice doesn't change that.

Cerberus is Bioware's, not your fantasy's. It's been shaped by Bioware, and when Bioware showed it to be wrong, that means that it was wrong.

I wonder if you'll sing the same tune if the mages are thrown under a bus next.

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Cerberus is Bioware's, not your fantasy's. It's been shaped by Bioware, and when Bioware showed it to be wrong, that means that it was wrong.

You equal "against Shepard" with "wrong". Can't say that is surprising.
I look at the ideals of Cerberus and what they did in the name of them and decide that they are right. The fact that Bioware didn't allow me to support them in ME3 doesn't change that.

[Xilizhra]

marshalleck wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I suspect you greatly fear having backed the wrong horse all this time, just like you did with Cerberus, no? You seem to have a pattern of endorsing supremacist atrocities that wind up going nowhere productive.

No, Bioware just has a pattern of ruining their own setting with simplistic, one-sided writing.
I never backed the wrong horse. Cerberus was and is right. The fact that Bioware decided to butcher them because they're not the popular choice doesn't change that.

Cerberus is Bioware's, not your fantasy's. It's been shaped by Bioware, and when Bioware showed it to be wrong, that means that it was wrong.

I wonder if you'll sing the same tune if the mages are thrown under a bus next.

If Bioware was that stupid, I doubt they could have made it as far as they have. Especially since they said they went too far in DA2 and are having the mages be more moderate in the future.

You equal "against Shepard" with "wrong". Can't say that is surprising.
I
look at the ideals of Cerberus and what they did in the name of them
and decide that they are right. The fact that Bioware didn't allow me to
support them in ME3 doesn't change that.

In that case, it was your Shepard Bioware allegedly butchered, and not Cerberus, if you still consider them right.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Terrorize69]

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
Easy, another race's religion will blame knifes for the creation of darkspawn.

That is the chantrys version of how Darkspawn were created, nothing more.

The darkspawn require no sustenance; they don't feed, sleep or breathe; and their reproductive system is 100% dependant on the already existing races.
A race like that could never develop naturally. The darkspawn were created by magic. The Chantry might be wrong and it wasn't Corypheus and his brethren who did so, but magic is still the root of the darkspawn.

Still the Chantrys beliefs, no evidence over then a religous view that blames magic for the darkspawn, maybe lyrium swords corrupted Tevinter Templars and made them into darkspawn.

There, that is now the non-Chantry view on Darkspawn . Its all the swords fault!

Modifié par Terrorize69, 17 octobre 2012 - 05:47 .

[TK514]

Terrorize69 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...
In the right hands a knife can kill as many as a mage could. Espically since rouge can apprenately go invis and backstab everyone.

Not a case of being allowed, people with magic don't get the choice. People with knifes and swords have the choice.

A knife can never cause the same amount of destruction as magic. Explain to me how a knife could create something like the darkspawn.

I'm also pretty sure that holding a knife doesn't leave you open to demonic possession and all that entails.

I hear those lyrium swords can be pretty wild. Just saying.

And had someone disarmed her, she'd have been powerless.  How do you disarm a mage?  You make them Tranquil.  Are you advocating making all mages Tranquil?  After all, that's certainly a viable alternative to the Circle system.