MisterJB wrote...I never said I supported the destruction of elven culture. What I said was that in treating humans as if they were the plague, elves contributed to the climate of hostility that, eventually, led to the war that destroyed their country.
If the humans didn't like it, they could have left the elves alone and there would be no climate of hostility.
Of course it is. it can be annoying, but there would have been no harm in allowing the opening of a chantry.
Barring entrance to the very religion that freed you and is backed by the most powerful force in Thedas, the humans, it's just stupid.
There would be harm if the elves didn't want them there. Then it's just one side forcing their will on another.
The religion didn't free them, Andraste and her husband Mafarath freed them. The elves respected the two as warriors, leaders and visionaries (at least one of whom had been a slave like them and advocated freedom for everyone, including them) and they believed Andraste's followers, who worshipped her like a goddess, would respect their said goddess' wishes and allow the elves to keep the land she promised them in exchange for their loyal service to her. Apparently the Andrastians don't honor the wishes of their Maker's Bride when it comes to elves. That's a sign of moral failing on their part.
The elves sacked Val Roeyaux during the war. That is an historical fact and no more open for discussion than the conquest of Lisbon during the Napoleonic Wars.
No, the former is fiction while the latter is reality. You might want to learn to tell the difference between the two.
In-universe, whatever accounts that say the elves sacked Val Roeyaux were written by the Orlaisians, who were just as biased as the Dalish. Since they won the war afterwards, they could write history however they wanted, and so could try to depict their enemies as ruthlessly and themselves as sympathetically as they wanted.
IF the elves managed to get to Val Roeyaux, I seriously doubt it was in as great a numbers as you imply or created the bloodbath you make it out to be. Not to mention that it makes no sense for them to invade the enemy's capital city if they weren't already at war and had nothing else to lose. The whole reason elves had been isolationist up till that point because they wanted to protect their new country from potential invadors, so they wouldn't risk pissing off the human neighbors that badly with that large an unprovoked attack. IF the elves invaded Val Roeyaux, it was most likely after the Exalted March against the Dales, when they had nothing to lose from such a huge, risky attack.
As a nation, the Dales can't be afforded to be left alone. Orlais sent diplomats, traders and missionaries; none of which are acts of agression but rather peacekeeping tools; in an attempt to coexist with the Dales who refused all offers of friendship on the basis of an half remembered myth.
It ceases to be a peacekeeping tool when it creates tension. The tension could have ceased if the humans had stopped trying to push it on the elves against their will. As soon as you try to force a tool on someone who doesn't want it (non-consentually), it becomes assault, which can be seen as a sign of aggression.
The two could have coexisted by merely living in the same universe, leaving each other the hell alone. "Good fences make good neighbors," and all that.
Or maybe the templars were just there to ensure the missionaries would be allowed inside their border which wouldn't require attacking anyone. After all, you can't convert corpses.
So they were going to try to force their way into elven territory despite knowing the elves didn't want them there?That sounds like an act of aggression to me.
Regardless, if the Templars were attacking, increase border patrol around the area. Do not attack a city full of innocents.
If they had increased border patrol, you would be saying how the increase in numbers at the border "could be reasonably construed as a sign of agresssion" and then defend the increase in Templar numbers escelating the fight higher and higher until it broke out into war anyway and then blamed the elves regardless.
So what you're saying is, in order to avoid the inevitable fight, Dalish should have just rolled over and let the Templars kill them and force their missionaries into their territory to convert their citizens against their will just because the humans wanted to do it? Riiight... That's not "peace," that "subjugating." One party forcing their will on another. The sort of thing the elves wanted their own country to get away from after a thousand years of having to obey every command humans gave them.
Or better yet, stop treating humans as if they spread the plague.
Or better yet, stop trying to invade elven territory when they make it clear they don't want you there.
Modifié par Faerunner, 18 octobre 2012 - 02:59 .
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