279 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Maxster_ wrote...

Are you sure, that total destruction of infrastructure, economic collapse and population reduction will not have same effect?
I'm not so sure, advanced civilization's existance tied to infrastructure and production lines. Take away all that, and everything will collapse.
No relays to get to agricultural colonies, infrastructure destroyed, factories destroyed. How you can even feed large population without that?

There aren't actually all that many "agricultural colonies" in the ME universe. Benning's about the only one mentioned, and it's only in that business to support Arcturus station, which doesn't have a garden world in its system. Some turian outposts might be doomed since dextro worlds seem to be pretty rare.

As for destroyed infrastructure, it's relatively hard to keep an infrastructure out of action -- short of glassing the whole planet with nukes, and the Reapers generally avoided doing that because they wanted the populations to live long enough to be harvested. And manufacturing capabilities in the ME universe are fairly decentralized compared to our own methods. Note that all the bombing of Germany, plus the forced deindustrialization and outright looting after the war, only drove GDP down to 1905 levels or so. Bad, but not catastrophic.

[AlanC9]

[quote]Steelcan wrote...

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]Steelcan wrote...
It seems to be implied that it is his first son, at least to me
[/quote]

I agree that's the implication. But an implication is not evidence.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

It doesn't have to be a dictatorship, any more than a nation having a standing army means that the army runs the country.

It's a matter of the degree of centralization of power, Xil.  You can't exactly have adequate checks and balances against Reapers/Shepadlyst, even if they're all nice and stuff.

[T-Raks]

And it's fine. I mean we just survived the Reaper war! We are free! What's more to want? Our minds and hands are well, so it looks good.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Deathsaurer wrote...

People being more negative about this than the freaking Catalyst makes me sad.

I know, right?

Eh, I'd rather have to repair the relays myself than live under a giant murderbot dictatorship.

Speaking as a galactic citizen, I mean.

It doesn't have to be a dictatorship, any more than a nation having a standing army means that the army runs the country.

. Except ths isn't rule by a standing army, it's rule by an entity that until 5 minutes before you meet him was he'll bent on destruction of all organic life, he just got an upgrade n control, it's still the same entity

[AlanC9]

Is he the same? He doesn't think he is.

[Steelcan]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is he the same? He doesn't think he is.

. Hitler thought he was doing God's work.  What the leader thinks he is doing and what he actually does are two separate entities

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It doesn't have to be a dictatorship, any more than a nation having a standing army means that the army runs the country.

It's a matter of the degree of centralization of power, Xil.  You can't exactly have adequate checks and balances against Reapers/Shepadlyst, even if they're all nice and stuff.

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It doesn't have to be a dictatorship, any more than a nation having a standing army means that the army runs the country.

It's a matter of the degree of centralization of power, Xil.  You can't exactly have adequate checks and balances against Reapers/Shepadlyst, even if they're all nice and stuff.

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

. I would kill every single Geth, gladly:devil:

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

Speaking from the perspective of a galactic citizen, I'm not responsible for killing the geth.  Speaking from the perspective of Shepard, I'm not living under the system because I am the system.

And yeah, considering the Reapers' track record, gratuitous collateral is acceptable.  If it were a real-life scenario (and I couldn't YouTube alternate futures), I'd go Red.  As for in-game, I have utilized my magical headcanon powers to prevent EDI and the geth from dying, because let's face it, even in the EC there's no hard evidence that they're actually dead.  For all we know, the Catalyst could have been lying.

[Steelcan]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

Speaking from the perspective of a galactic citizen, I'm not responsible for killing the geth.  Speaking from the perspective of Shepard, I'm not living under the system because I am the system.

And yeah, considering the Reapers' track record, gratuitous collateral is acceptable.  If it were a real-life scenario (and I couldn't YouTube alternate futures), I'd go Red.  As for in-game, I have utilized my magical headcanon powers to prevent EDI and the geth from dying, because let's face it, even in the EC there's no hard evidence that they're actually dead.  For all we know, the Catalyst could have been lying.

. You are right that there is no evidence for the geth dyin, but EDI is on the memorial wall in destroy

[DuffyMJ]

OK, well, come on now... The asari are sitting on a pile of ezo on Thessia and have a relay in their solar system they can work on repairing immediately. Inter-stellar communications are alive and well which allows scientists and engineers to coordinate their efforts.

The galaxy really only needs to rebuild less than 10 relays to more or less restore the galactic economy.

Aethon Cluster (Irune Volus homeworld) --> Apien Crest (Palaven) --> Serpent Neblua

Athena Nebula (Asari homeworld) --> Serpent Nebula

So right there you have 4 relays -- just 4 -- and the economies/trade network of the Vol Protectorate, Turian Empire, and Asari Republics are reconnected... If I remember correctly, those are the 3 largest economies.

With 5 relays, you can connect to the Silean Nebula and reconnect the Elcor to the trade network.

6 you reconnect to Terra Nova, Eden Prime

7 you reconnect to Earth.

Not to mention, if studying Alpha Relay unveiled anything, it might even be possible to build a relays that connect the entire network!

Edit:  I think it is a very hopeful future.  The Batarian hegemony is broken and hopefully their people will reemerge as a free society, the Krogan will also rebuild and hopefully become a great people again, Earth/humanity were mostly Earth-bound anyway as we were new to the galactic scene, so our people will do just fine and rejoin the galaxy later on.  The Salarians weren't attacked in force... It's a great time to be alive after the end of the Reaper war!

Modifié par DuffyMJ, 17 octobre 2012 - 09:51 .

[Xilizhra]

Speaking from the perspective of a galactic citizen, I'm not responsible for killing the geth. Speaking from the perspective of Shepard, I'm not living under the system because I am the system.

You're dodging the question. Imagine that this thing was put to a vote, somehow, as some people have wanted. You're voting on whether to kill every last geth or to live under this system. What do you vote for?

[Deathsaurer]

Steelcan wrote...

Except ths isn't rule by a standing army, it's rule by an entity that until 5 minutes before you meet him was he'll bent on destruction of all organic life, he just got an upgrade n control, it's still the same entity

Erm no? It says it does not look forward to being replaced by you if you're hostile towards it.

[Steelcan]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Except ths isn't rule by a standing army, it's rule by an entity that until 5 minutes before you meet him was he'll bent on destruction of all organic life, he just got an upgrade n control, it's still the same entity

Erm no? It says it does not look forward to being replaced by you if you're hostile towards it.

. But the catalyst itself still exists, he just has a new personality

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It doesn't have to be a dictatorship, any more than a nation having a standing army means that the army runs the country.

It's a matter of the degree of centralization of power, Xil.  You can't exactly have adequate checks and balances against Reapers/Shepadlyst, even if they're all nice and stuff.

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

. I would kill every single Geth, gladly:devil:

this reminds of another post above..

this one

AlanC9 wrote...

Is he the same? He doesn't think he is.

. Hitler thought he was doing God's work. What the leader thinks he is doing and what he actually does are two separate entities


hmmmmm?

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

You're dodging the question. Imagine that this thing was put to a vote, somehow, as some people have wanted. You're voting on whether to kill every last geth or to live under this system. What do you vote for?

[  ] Be ruled by Reapers
[  ] Become one with Reapers
[X] Kill the geth

[Steelcan]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
It's a matter of the degree of centralization of power, Xil.  You can't exactly have adequate checks and balances against Reapers/Shepadlyst, even if they're all nice and stuff.

Then let me ask you this: Would you rather live under this system, or would you rather kill every last geth?

. I would kill every single Geth, gladly:devil:

this reminds of another post above..
this one

AlanC9 wrote...

Is he the same? He doesn't think he is.

. Hitler thought he was doing God's work. What the leader thinks he is doing and what he actually does are two separate entities
hmmmmm?

. :devil:  In all seriousness the fate of the geth was irrelevant.  I only kept them alive or their usefulness

[Steelcan]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're dodging the question. Imagine that this thing was put to a vote, somehow, as some people have wanted. You're voting on whether to kill every last geth or to live under this system. What do you vote for?

[  ] Be ruled by Reapers
[  ] Become one with Reapers
[X] Kill the geth

. I think the galaxy would tow to blow them up by an overwhelming amount

[AdmiralCheez]

Steelcan wrote...

You are right that there is no evidence for the geth dyin, but EDI is on the memorial wall in destroy

And StarBrat's picture is on a missing poster BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE IS A REAL PERSON!!!

Actually, I can't even read the memorial wall in that scene.  I thought I saw it, though.  Still, not so bad if it's just EDI.  She was very clear about her whole "to the death" thing, but I do kinda wish I had the chance to let her know what was coming.

[Maxster_]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Are you sure, that total destruction of infrastructure, economic collapse and population reduction will not have same effect?
I'm not so sure, advanced civilization's existance tied to infrastructure and production lines. Take away all that, and everything will collapse.
No relays to get to agricultural colonies, infrastructure destroyed, factories destroyed. How you can even feed large population without that?

There aren't actually all that many "agricultural colonies" in the ME universe. Benning's about the only one mentioned, and it's only in that business to support Arcturus station, which doesn't have a garden world in its system. Some turian outposts might be doomed since dextro worlds seem to be pretty rare.

As for destroyed infrastructure, it's relatively hard to keep an infrastructure out of action -- short of glassing the whole planet with nukes, and the Reapers generally avoided doing that because they wanted the populations to live long enough to be harvested. And manufacturing capabilities in the ME universe are fairly decentralized compared to our own methods. Note that all the bombing of Germany, plus the forced deindustrialization and outright looting after the war, only drove GDP down to 1905 levels or so. Bad, but not catastrophic.

You are saying that every colony self-sustainable and can support current level of technology and support & repair damaged infrastructure. Which is of course false, giving relatively cheap and fast transportation in ME galaxy(with relays). You don't need to build massive rockets to fly to orbit, for example.
Also, codex about reaper war

Earth

The capital ships bombarded defense installations and industrial centers, annihilating entire cities with populations in the low millions, including Adelaide, Hamburg, Al Jubail, and Fort Worth. Meanwhile, Reaper destroyers descended into the atmosphere to melt roads and capture population centers with minimal loss of life. This is not an example of the Reapers being merciful. More likely, they are herding their prey to make the coming harvest that much easier.

Palaven

The turians insist that Palaven is not lost--the battle has merely moved
to the ground. Reaper troop transports have dumped hordes of husk to
capture Palaven's inhabitants, but met with little success. Reaper
capital ships are destroying city after city. But much of the turian
fleet is still operable, and the citizenry is heavily armed. The turians
refuse to be intimidated.

Thessia

Unfortunately, the Reapers' greater numbers allowed them to accept
certain losses, so they soon ignored the attacks against them and began
orbital bombardment of Thessia. This in turn forced the asari to defend
their homeworld with a more traditional stance, facing the Reaper forces
directly. As soon as the Reapers landed on Thessia, the harvesting
began.

As for Germany, don't forget, if Germany couldn't get resources from out of the borders, there would be mass starvation and inability to restore to prewar economic and population state.
I'm not even saying about some serious project, like building a space station, or even start cosmonautic projects.

Thinking that relays will be rebuilt in less than a few hundred years, is a mistake.
Lower technological level, devastated infrastructure, no resources. No one will ever care about starting that project(rebuild relays) in next 50 or 100 years, or even allocating serious resources into researching relay technology. It is just impossible.

Modifié par Maxster_, 17 octobre 2012 - 10:02 .

[Silcron]

Steelcan wrote...
 :devil:  In all seriousness the fate of the geth was irrelevant.  I only kept them alive or their usefulness

Same reason I saved the rachni queen.

Good side: the species of insectoid aliens that almost put down the toher species owes me personally a favor, and they keep their word.

Bad side: they don't keep their word, but since I'm that awesome I'll just go with my squad and kill them (and there was a side mission in ME1 where  you did this)

[Deathsaurer]

Steelcan wrote...

But the catalyst itself still exists, he just has a new personality

It is reduced to a servent like it did to the Reapers. Shepard's personality upload replaced its function as the master control AI.

[Steelcan]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

You are right that there is no evidence for the geth dyin, but EDI is on the memorial wall in destroy

And StarBrat's picture is on a missing poster BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN HE IS A REAL PERSON!!!

Actually, I can't even read the memorial wall in that scene.  I thought I saw it, though.  Still, not so bad if it's just EDI.  She was very clear about her whole "to the death" thing, but I do kinda wish I had the chance to let her know what was coming.

. I laugh at Starbrats attempts to make me not pick destroy by saying that others will die.  My Shepard is kind of a psychopath