279 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're dodging the question. Imagine that this thing was put to a vote, somehow, as some people have wanted. You're voting on whether to kill every last geth or to live under this system. What do you vote for?

[  ] Be ruled by Reapers
[  ] Become one with Reapers
[X] Kill the geth

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

[Steelcan]

Deathsaurer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

But the catalyst itself still exists, he just has a new personality

It is reduced to a servent like it did to the Reapers. Shepard's personality upload replaced its function as the master control AI.

. No, listening to the Control speech, it is clear to me that the catalyst still exists but has been slightly changed by Shepard's upload

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're dodging the question. Imagine that this thing was put to a vote, somehow, as some people have wanted. You're voting on whether to kill every last geth or to live under this system. What do you vote for?

[  ] Be ruled by Reapers
[  ] Become one with Reapers
[X] Kill the geth

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

. If it was voted on by the galaxy, you would be extremely hard pressed to find someone who does not want the reapers destroyed. In order for it to be considered genocide the geth would have to be alive first, they aren't.  And anyways, their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire

[AdmiralCheez]

Steelcan wrote...

I laugh at Starbrats attempts to make me not pick destroy by saying that others will die.  My Shepard is kind of a psychopath

Meanwhile, I paragon pretty hardcore, and yet I was pretty sure that the Catalyst was full of [poop].  And those endings, man...  Reapers just magically turn good and help rebuild the galaxy?  Whaaaaaat?

I REJECT THIS CANON AND SUBSTITUTE MY OWN!

[Legbiter]

You only have to fix a few relays to reconnect the main races, the volus will probably engineer a gigantic galaxy-wide Reconstruction fund and humanity is still mostly confined to Earth. Add in that manufacturing capabilities are probably much more decentralized than today (they must have capabilties that make our 3D printing today look like banging rocks together for sparks) and production will get started very soon. Throw in the fact that the Council races are working together.

I say with a post-war Baby Boom the galaxy is back to pre-war output in 20-25 years.

[Steelcan]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I laugh at Starbrats attempts to make me not pick destroy by saying that others will die.  My Shepard is kind of a psychopath

Meanwhile, I paragon pretty hardcore, and yet I was pretty sure that the Catalyst was full of [poop].  And those endings, man...  Reapers just magically turn good and help rebuild the galaxy?  Whaaaaaat?

I REJECT THIS CANON AND SUBSTITUTE MY OWN!

. You win epically for the Adam Savage reference.

[General User]

Since destroy involves a pan-galactic effort to rebuild the mass relay network, a system that (by Council edict) had remained largely mysterious prior to the Reaper War, the post-Destroy galaxy is an place of scientific discovery and mutual cooperation.

[Village_Idiot]

General User wrote...

Since destroy involves a pan-galactic effort to rebuild the mass relay network, a system that (by Council edict) had remained largely mysterious prior to the Reaper War, the post-Destroy galaxy is an place of scientific discovery and mutual cooperation.

With technology that was earned, not imposed. Mordin would be proud.

[ghost9191]

yes and everyone is holding hands and bending over accepting what the reapers have to offer with a smile on their faces in synthesis

ai shepard is riding around wiping out races that get uppity and forcing lesser species to worship him or her as a god in control

and oh yeah refuse is worse then dark age, there are no current races left to be in a dark age

and to use the word dark age , that would imply lack of advancement and such , which considering the races would have to learn and rebuild on their own, i doubt that qualifies as such . oh yeah and ftl what? so they wouldn't really move back , but forward in tech

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

Eh, I'll take dead robots over mass mind control anyway.  They're both atrocities, really, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

[General User]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

General User wrote...

Since destroy involves a pan-galactic effort to rebuild the mass relay network, a system that (by Council edict) had remained largely mysterious prior to the Reaper War, the post-Destroy galaxy is an place of scientific discovery and mutual cooperation.

With technology that was earned, not imposed. Mordin would be proud.

Aye, quite right.  In Destroy we discover and master the technology for and by ourselves, rather than have such things imposed on or "gifted" to us by an outside force.

[Foxhound2121]

An age constitutes as a period of time that takes thousands of years. Given that we know nothing about how long it would take the galaxy to rebuild, it wouldn't be difficult for people to assume they did it rather quickly taking maybe a hundred years at the most.. You can't call a couple centuries, one century, or even a decade an age.

Plus, people who were in the dark ages were oblivious to it. An age has to be something that is defining of those people and time, so hence it must be something that they are oblivious to. It would be just as silly as someone trying to predict now what the new age will be.

[DuffyMJ]

Geth deserve to live, but does the catalyst? Do the Reapers?

Destroy is the only ending where the catalyst dies, where the Reapers die... It's sort of like the Balak/hostage situation in Bring Down the Sky.

I have many, many problems with Synthesis, specifically changing what nature intended for life. Call it interfering with God's plan or whatever, it just plain isn't right and it is accepting the Catalyst's premise that the Reapers are like forest fires (part of nature) and, I'm sorry Casey Hudson, that's nonsense. NOTHING synthetic is natural or evolutionary. Nature IS chaos.

Control is the bad-guy ending. It is securing human dominance against the Reapers and beyond. Who is to say "protecting the many" or whatever is the right thing to do and should be enforced by God-like machines? People should be paragons by their own volition because it's the right thing to do, not for fear of enforcement from the Shep-reapers.

Destroy is really the only option. It's tragic and forces you to committ genocide (and is therefore a real mind-frack) but you MUST consider the crimes of the alternative options:

- Refuse (genocide all life in your cycle...)
- Control (ETERNALLY enslave the galaxy -- benevolent or not)
- Synthesis (for me personally, this is more or less foresaking not just my life but terminating God!)

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

Eh, I'll take dead robots over mass mind control anyway.  They're both atrocities, really, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

It's not mind control much less mass. And grabbing the Reapers to make them seek peace isn't an atrocity at all.

Destroy is the only ending where the catalyst dies, where the Reapers
die... It's sort of like the Balak/hostage situation in Bring Down the
Sky.

I let Balak go to save the hostages, which worked out for me in the end.

Control is the bad-guy ending. It is securing human dominance against
the Reapers and beyond. Who is to say "protecting the many" or whatever
is the right thing to do and should be enforced by God-like machines?
People should be paragons by their own volition because it's the right
thing to do, not for fear of enforcement from the Shep-reapers.

It's not human dominance; it's no one's dominance in my case, as my aim is to bring about equalized peace.

I have many, many problems with Synthesis, specifically changing what
nature intended for life. Call it interfering with God's plan or
whatever, it just plain isn't right and it is accepting the Catalyst's
premise that the Reapers are like forest fires (part of nature) and, I'm
sorry Casey Hudson, that's nonsense. NOTHING synthetic is natural or
evolutionary. Nature IS chaos.

**** God. If we can find a way to do better, we should.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 17 octobre 2012 - 10:25 .

[DuffyMJ]

Xilizhra wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

Eh, I'll take dead robots over mass mind control anyway.  They're both atrocities, really, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

It's not mind control much less mass. And grabbing the Reapers to make them seek peace isn't an atrocity at all.

Destroy is the only ending where the catalyst dies, where the Reapers
die... It's sort of like the Balak/hostage situation in Bring Down the
Sky.

I let Balak go to save the hostages, which worked out for me in the end.

Control is the bad-guy ending. It is securing human dominance against
the Reapers and beyond. Who is to say "protecting the many" or whatever
is the right thing to do and should be enforced by God-like machines?
People should be paragons by their own volition because it's the right
thing to do, not for fear of enforcement from the Shep-reapers.

It's not human dominance; it's no one's dominance in my case, as my aim is to bring about equalized peace.

I said it's sort of like it, not exactly like it.  Letting Balak go didn't involve assuming direct control of him and turning him into a Space Marshall, nor did it involve sacrificing yourself and MAKING Balak understand humanity while making Kate a Human-Batarian hybrid critter...




EDIT b/c I missed most of your post:

A human's will dicates the galaxy in control -- period.  You are not Batarian, you do not value the caste system and do not entertain castes as part of Batarian culture/rights.  You do not endorse the Krogan revenge/warpath.  You do not support the natural desires/hopes/wishes/dreams of all organics, only your Shepard values will shape the future of the whole galaxy.  So what you are actually saying is that you are benevolent dictator.  Not all living things WANT peace or equality.  Inequality is, well, part of life.

As for God, well, you once again are assuming the way of the Synthesis is the "better" way, but you are only informed on what's better by your own POV.  I, personally, like chaos in my life.  I would love to live in a society where you could ****** in a bush without getting a ticket from police, where you can speed or break a few traffic rules if you're running late, where you can kill someone who protests military funerals, to me that's not EVIL/CHAOS.  But at the same time I'm not going to FORCE that way of life on anyone just because it's what I would like.

Modifié par DuffyMJ, 17 octobre 2012 - 10:33 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your preference for genocide has been noted and disregarded in my assessment.

Eh, I'll take dead robots over mass mind control anyway.  They're both atrocities, really, so it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

And since when did we start give a damn about the Reaper's civil rights?

[babachewie]

I just realized this was a waste of time

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

And since when did we start give a damn about the Reaper's civil rights?

Oops, forgot we weren't talking about Synthesis!

Then again, Reapers can't turn off their indoctrination.  Plus, you're still controlling the masses, this time through threat of force and complete centralization of power.

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

And since when did we start give a damn about the Reaper's civil rights?

Oops, forgot we weren't talking about Synthesis!

Then again, Reapers can't turn off their indoctrination.  Plus, you're still controlling the masses, this time through threat of force and complete centralization of power.

I'm fairly sure they can, really.

[Taboo]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

General User wrote...

Since destroy involves a pan-galactic effort to rebuild the mass relay network, a system that (by Council edict) had remained largely mysterious prior to the Reaper War, the post-Destroy galaxy is an place of scientific discovery and mutual cooperation.

With technology that was earned, not imposed. Mordin would be proud.

+1

[Village_Idiot]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

And since when did we start give a damn about the Reaper's civil rights?

Oops, forgot we weren't talking about Synthesis!

Then again, Reapers can't turn off their indoctrination.  Plus, you're still controlling the masses, this time through threat of force and complete centralization of power.

Why people believe that the population of the galaxy will simply roll over and accept their new Reaper overlords is beyond me. The Reapers can only maintain order with a very big stick, and that's a flawed premise from the start.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not mind control much less mass. And grabbing the Reapers to make them seek peace isn't an atrocity at all.

Mixed up Control and Synthesis.  See response to Lizardviking.

Bonus question: What if it weren't a Reaper invasion, and something more like the turians or the asari were the aggressors?  Assume conventional victory is not possible and that the Crucible is the only option.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm fairly sure they can, really.

Please replay Reaper IFF mission in ME2.

[ghost9191]

the reapers are what they are, no guarantee synthesis would change that or control. so do they really deserve to continue on, what if they start again , or don't stop, only option that stops the reaper threat is destroy

still hate it , genocide and all , that is of course if it destroys the geth, i want my damn proof =0
but hard choices need to be made.

but both control and synthesis have you have shepard making a deal with the devil , which also both have shepard committing suicide so s/he cannot continue the fight if it does not work. Synthesis and control the races will not be able to fight back , same as refuse if the reapers do not stop. destroy is the only option that takes the reapers out of the equation and allows the races to rebuild on their own


and i do feel synthesis does more dmg than destroy , you hit the apex of evolution , where the hell do you go from there . even though that isn't really possible but whatever , if so then stagnation anyone