279 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

. Not if Wrex and Eve are alive

I was using an historic example of a conflict that went too far to the point that extreme measures had to be used in order to stop it.

. Cause the genophage worked out so well?

No it did not, which is my point.

[Xilizhra]

. Cause the genophage worked out so well?

For the galaxy as a whole, it worked out very well.

[DuffyMJ]

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. Cause the genophage worked out so well?

For the galaxy as a whole, it worked out very well.

. I thought you tried to preserve every individual? It destroyed the Krogan and their society.

[Steelcan]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

. Because robo-God has giant lasers and lots of them

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

This is where you can make a case for Control.  However, remember that it's not actually Shepard making those calls, but a computer that runs on Shepard's memories and principles.  Would this computer be able to adopt the same finesse as the real Shepard (you know, the one that DIED)?  How much does Shepardlyst really have in common with "the (wo)man I once was?"

See, even if I was on board with the whole benevolent dictatorship thing, that little uncertainty there makes me go NOPE.

[MegaSovereign]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

It's been over a thousand years. The people who were responsible for all that are either long dead or very old by now.

With that mentality the cycle would just repeat itself over and over. The Salarians could easily hit them again with the genophage and the Krogan would be right back to where they started.

[SNascimento]

It was never one.

[DuffyMJ]

Xilizhra wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The idea is still valid though, perhaps immoral but still valid.

Nuh-uh.  It implies that "the way things are" is inherently good.

For example, cancer happens naturally all the time.  Should we all get cancer?

You're missing the point, though.  I do not believe in social darwinism presently.  Did I when I worked in a law firm and dealt was exposed to an environment that very much seems to support the idea? Yes.  Do  now in my present job and life situation?  No.  May I go back and later agree with it at another point with more experiences? Sure. Who knows.

The point is, I can believe in it.  Shepard reapers would not allow me to apply the theory of social darwinism should I ever decide to.  The reapers will deter me.  Some folks who may be braver/dumber than I may not be deterred, but they will then be eliminated/indoctrinated by the reapers.  End of story.

And if they attempt to do so by harming others, than that is what should happen.

Define harm.

Is bodily assault healable by medi-gel harm?

Are duels/contests to the death harm?

If I use usury is it harm?

If I manipulate legal interpretations of laws and regulations that are technically legal, but unethical is it harm?

If I make a terminate 1,000 workers so I can afford a luxury star ship during a galactic depression and some of those terminated employees actually go on to starve is it harm?


Who is going to decide all this, btw?  A democracy?  Do Rachni get one vote per drone?  Is exogeni defined as a person and have the same civil rights as an individual organic?  Does a Geth platform have more rights than an individual organic because it is a network of programs?

Should Shepard god decide these matters on a case by case basis instead of democracy?  Should his view on the needs of the many supercede the opinions of Primarch of Palaven?  What if the primarch and dalatrass have a different view on who is harming the many?  Which galactic leader's advice should shepard heed?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

Because the krogans themselves were not innocents in this either, and because the galaxy does not need another major conflict.

[DuffyMJ]

MegaSovereign wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

It's been over a thousand years. The people who were responsible for all that are either long dead or very old by now.

With that mentality the cycle would just repeat itself over and over. The Salarians could easily hit them again with the genophage and the Krogan would be right back to where they started.

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it?  Rewrite me?  Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap.  What if I tell you that to your face?  What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't.  What are you going to do, run me over? 

[inversevideo]

IsaacShep wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

But Synthesis alters the minds of all individuals at their very core.  The brain of a fused individual is not the same as the brain of an unfused individual.  In fact, if Synthesis creates some sort of collective mind, then the whole concept of individualality may no longer apply at all.

Wreav goes to war even in synthesis so it doesn't look like individuality is no longer present.

The problem I have with this is that we see, in the synthesis ending, that husks stop fighting, mid fight, as soon as the wave hits. Human soldiers also stop killing husks.  This implies a rudimentary connection between things has been established.

So it does not rule out the ide that the Krogan are even more connected, more of a 'hive', than non-Krogan, and united in their drive for 'manifest destiny'. 

And if that is the case, maker help everyone because synthesis would have uplifted the Yahg.

[Xilizhra]

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it? Rewrite me? Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap. What if I tell you that to your face? What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't. What are you going to do, run me over?

So... what are you saying? You're agitating for war? I'm not going to let war happen no matter what you do. If it's just words, I don't necessarily care, but if you're planning actual aggression, that will be dealt with.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it? Rewrite me? Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap. What if I tell you that to your face? What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't. What are you going to do, run me over?

So... what are you saying? You're agitating for war? I'm not going to let war happen no matter what you do. If it's just words, I don't necessarily care, but if you're planning actual aggression, that will be dealt with.

. Why is this even a question? Those Krogan will be obliterate because big brother shepalyst knows best.

[Demon560]

Xilizhra wrote...

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it? Rewrite me? Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap. What if I tell you that to your face? What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't. What are you going to do, run me over?

So... what are you saying? You're agitating for war? I'm not going to let war happen no matter what you do. If it's just words, I don't necessarily care, but if you're planning actual aggression, that will be dealt with.

and now you just gave those that still hate the Reapers and view them no different then before a Martyr, and soon you step on more people toes on this and deal with them, soon enough you've either dealt with half the galaxy who you were supposed to protect and make it no different then in the destroy ending, yup gotta love dictatorships built by the former buggymen of the Galaxy.

[Kathleen321]

.

[DuffyMJ]

Xilizhra wrote...

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it? Rewrite me? Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap. What if I tell you that to your face? What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't. What are you going to do, run me over?

So... what are you saying? You're agitating for war? I'm not going to let war happen no matter what you do. If it's just words, I don't necessarily care, but if you're planning actual aggression, that will be dealt with.

"Don't interfere with my plans Shepard, I won't warn you again"
"You would undo everything I've accomplished, I won't let that happen"



I'm not agitating for war.  I'm advocating for my rights.  Why do you consider my struggle for freedom 'war' or aggression? who are you to define that?  You human robo gods are all racist!

Oh, and again friend: please define these terms you throw around to me like 'aggression' and 'harm'.  I'm waiting...

Can I be bold and tell your daughter she's hot?  What if the intent was not aggressive but the perception of the recipient was aggressive or harmful and made her uncomfortable?  Are you going to indoctrinate me?

[Xilizhra]

and now you just gave those that still hate the Reapers and view them no different then before a Martyr, and soon you step on more people toes on this and deal with them, soon enough you've either dealt with half the galaxy who you were supposed to protect and make it no different then in the destroy ending, yup gotta love dictatorships built by the former buggymen of the Galaxy.

Hardly. If the krogan want to attack again, I'll prove my worth to the citizens of the galaxy who'd fear another Krogan Rebellion, which I think is in most of them.

I'm not agitating for war. I'm advocating for my rights. Why do you consider my struggle for freedom 'war' or aggression? who are you to define that? You human robo gods are all racist!

Rights? You have them. The genophage is gone. You can leave the planet if you really want to.

Oh, and again friend: please define these terms you throw around to me like 'aggression' and 'harm'. I'm waiting...

The Reapers aren't really equipped to deal with small-scale events, so what I'd mostly do is stop outbreaks of actual war.

[Steelcan]

Modifié par Steelcan, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:04 .

[Steelcan]

[quote]DuffyMJ wrote...
So... what are you saying? You're agitating for war? I'm not going to let war happen no matter what you do. If it's just words, I don't necessarily care, but if you're planning actual aggression, that will be dealt with.[/quote]

"Don't interfere with my plans Shepard, I won't warn you again"
"You would undo everything I've accomplished, I won't let that happen"



I'm not agitating for war.  I'm advocating for my rights.  Why do you consider my struggle for freedom 'war' or aggression? who are you to define that?  You human robo gods are all racist!

Oh, and again friend: please define these terms you throw around to me like 'aggression' and 'harm'.  I'm waiting...

Can I be bold and tell your daughter she's hot?  What if the intent was not aggressive but the perception of the recipient was aggressive or harmful and made her uncomfortable?  Are you going to indoctrinate me?
[/quote]. Yes:devil:

[DuffyMJ]

And further: How are you going to apply proper proportion to force and deterence?

Did you know that Vorcha only are dominated and deterred by individual physical force and direct applications of violence? How are you going to deal with them Robo-shep? if one Vorcha becomes aggressive and takes over a continent on his homeworld and openly states he's going to take over Omega, are you going to bombard him even though he hasn't actually done the deed yet? You could physically deter him, but how are you going to do that when you are a starship sized creature? I mean, you could always indoctinate and use a thrall but... how are you going to choose who to enthrall? Are you going to enthrall a Krogran? How do you decide who deserves to be enthralled versus killed?

On top of that... If I'm a volus who wants to plan an attack on omega, and I am EASILY intimidated by threats of force... Is it justice that the vorcha was hunted down and physically beaten by a krogan thrall while the volus was simply yelled at by a reaper horn?

Modifié par DuffyMJ, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:06 .

[MegaSovereign]

DuffyMJ wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

It's been over a thousand years. The people who were responsible for all that are either long dead or very old by now.

With that mentality the cycle would just repeat itself over and over. The Salarians could easily hit them again with the genophage and the Krogan would be right back to where they started.

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it?  Rewrite me?  Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap.  What if I tell you that to your face?  What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't.  What are you going to do, run me over? 

Are you role-playing as a Krogan? Just making sure.

No I won't kill you for having those views. If you act on your feelings and start killing non-Krogans on that premise then I will send the Reapers to take care of you. That's the law mofo.

[AdmiralCheez]

MegaSovereign wrote...

No I won't kill you for having those views.

YOU'RE dead.  Shepardlyst is NOT you, but a computer based on you.

YOU might not kill the krogan, but what about Shepardlyst?  Do you really have faith in that thing?

[Steelcan]

DuffyMJ wrote...

And further: How are you going to apply proper proportion to force and deterence?

Did you know that Vorcha only are dominated and deterred by individual physical force and direct applications of violence? How are you going to deal with them Robo-shep? if one Vorcha becomes aggressive and takes over a continent on his homeworld and openly states he's going to take over Omega, are you going to bombard him even though he hasn't actually done the deed yet? You could physically deter him, but how are you going to do that when you are a starship sized creature? I mean, you could always indoctinate and use a thrall but... how are you going to choose who to enthrall? Are you going to enthrall a Krogran? How do you decide who deserves to be enthralled versus killed?

On top of that... If I'm a volus who wants to plan an attack on omega, and I am EASILY intimidated by threats of force... Is it justice that the vorcha was hunted down and physically beaten by a krogan thrall while the volus was simply yelled at by a reaper horn?

. Make everyone indoctrinated. Free will is just so damn inconvenient

[DuffyMJ]

MegaSovereign wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Depends on the severity I would guess.

But, because we all know how the galaxy works, Shepardlyst will eventuASSUMING CONTROL.

As opposed to letting a conflict like the Krogan rebellions go on?

And why shouldn't it?  You think it's fine and dandy for an alien species to fly down, give you guns, tell you to go crawl in caves to blow up giant insects, and then mess with your ability to birth children when they don't like your goals/ambitions that aren't in line with their own? And then to really top it off, they only cure what they did to you when they need you to save their own skins?!

If I was a Krogan I would absolutely want the Krogan rebellions to go on.  Why should some dude from Earth turned robo-God tell me I can't? 

It's been over a thousand years. The people who were responsible for all that are either long dead or very old by now.

With that mentality the cycle would just repeat itself over and over. The Salarians could easily hit them again with the genophage and the Krogan would be right back to where they started.

If I'm not allowed to have that mentality, then what are you going to do about it?  Rewrite me?  Kill me for thinking differently? That's a load of crap.  What if I tell you that to your face?  What if a lot of folks agree with me and get in your face too, a lot of survivors of the hegemony of the krogan or whoever... What if they all stand with me in front of your Shepard-Reaper-tanks and you tell me to disperse and I don't.  What are you going to do, run me over? 

Are you role-playing as a Krogan? Just making sure.

No I won't kill you for having those views. If you act on your feelings and start killing non-Krogans on that premise then I will send the Reapers to take care of you. That's the law mofo.

Nope, I didn't act on anything.  But yes, the Krogan who did kill that clan of greedy volus bankers who were holding back loans to Krogan businesses is standing right behind me in my house.  And I am not getting out of the way for your Husks to aprehend him.  My family aren't leaving the house either.  You are not Krogan and we have our own justice system whcih says killing usury-loving greedy bankers is OK.  What are you going to do about it?