15 réponses à ce sujet

[JCAP]

No doubt, a game is a lot more fun with mods.

I read that Frostbite 2 uses a more complicated system than other engines, which makes it less mod friendly. (I believe it is because of this that they have not yet made a multiplayer crack)

So I got a bit worried, if a representative or developer could answer I would appreciate.


Vanilla is better in first playthrough, the second is better with mods 

(sorry my english)

Modifié par JCAP, 17 octobre 2012 - 07:52 .

[David Gaider]

King Cousland wrote...
Mods (at least the kind I think you're referring to) require a toolset. It's been stated by BioWare that it's unlikely we'll get one for DA III but they are considering it.

Mods don't require a toolset. A toolset makes the creation of mods much easier, but even games without toolsets get modded... sometimes extensively.

There are currently no plans for a toolset (that I'm aware of, anyhow), but beyond that I've no idea how mod-friendly DAI will be (meaning how easy the native files will be to alter). Certainly we're very aware that PC users like to use mods, and that the existence of mods extend the life of the game on PC.

[David Gaider]

Knock off the console/PC agitation, please.

And PinkDiamonds always brings this up every time mods are mentioned-- I think everyone's quite aware that mods are available to PC users only. If some console users wish to be bitter about that, that's their choice-- but it certainly doesn't affect anything, and there's no need to leap on PinkDiamond's griping as if failing to completely stomp that opinion down will suddenly make us agree with her.

[David Gaider]

Archaven wrote...
I'm not saying i hate DLCs.. what i'm saying i HATE item/weapon pack DLCs. I don't mind buying season pass for story content DLCs. but the item pack DLC #1, #2, #3 are just damn evil. If people bother buying.. devs probably won't bother releasing any good content DLCs. They rather just disallow mods, don't need to release a toolset and everyone just buying their pre-made mods. Insta cash win.

Two things:

1) If you don't like what a DLC offers, don't buy it. If nobody buys it, we won't make it.

2) We're well aware that people who use mods aren't necessarily going to buy every DLC, but not every DLC is made for them. Keep in mind that the majority of the game's user base does not have access to any kind of mod... and that's not just console users. The majority of PC users also don't use mods.

[Allan Schumacher]

Regarding your last point: Is that true? When I finally got a computer that could handle DA games my first thought was what mods I'd be able to run. I was spoiled on some of the armors, weapons and plot fixes and wanted to make sure I'd still be able to experience them.

I don't have any knowledge to the actual breakdown, but just in my own experience with myself and with friends, virtually none of us use mods.

For myself, I use mods very selectively. The last one I snagged was Sawyer's mod for Fallout: New Vegas, and that one has an X-Factor in that it's one of the designers of the game creating a mod that allowed for the cross-DLC support and a better envisioning of a game feature he wanted to make.

Aside from that, the vast bulk of my mods have only been the very high profile ones that are usually total conversions. I have also noticed that as I have gotten older, my willingness and ability to seek out mods diminishes.

Now, this is just an anecdote, but I wouldn't be surprised if modding was an endeavour of the hardcore fans more than others.

[David Gaider]

Wozearly wrote...
It would be difficult to disagree with that statement. I'd expect that both modders and mod installers are disproportionately more likely to be hardcore fans.

Speaking personally, I've found a number of mods to be great additions. DA:O, the Elder Scrolls series and Jagged Alliance all did very, very well from modders (in my view). I've also been part of mod groups for games by Creative Assembly, Akella and Paradox, although that was when I had a lot more free time on my hands.

However much I value them, I'm also under no illusions that the majority of game purchasers will never install mods, and the majority of modders will not make a decision to buy a game based on its modding potential (albeit there may be an indirect benefit to DLC and future series sales on the back of mods keeping interest over a longer time period).

One can only extrapolate from the posted number of downloads for publicly-available mods-- but even if you were to add all those downloads up, and assume that a different user was involved each time, it would still only be a portion of the PC user base... which itself is a minority among total users.

Which kind of puts a dent in the "we won't allow mods because it will hurt DLC sales" argument, really. Even if every single PC user didn't download a piece of DLC because they could get a mod to do the same thing (and were willing to do so), that still leaves a big portion of the user base as possible buyers... and I really doubt that's the case.

Ultimately the main reason to assist modding is because modding adds to the enjoyment of the game for those who use it, and keeps the game on their hard drives for longer (which, statistically, means they are actually more likely to buy DLC and not less). It's also a goodwill gesture, which I think PC users appreciate, and helps keep the hardcore community alive-- which is important to BioWare. So if we can find a way, I suspect we will. I just don't think that the total numbers in and of themselves are ever going to support an argument for or against.

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
David,

Have you gotten a chance to mess around with Shadow Run's toolkit?

Mostly their conversation editor, to be honest. Which is interesting. I'd work on a module, but the rest of the toolkit is so impenetrable it would require more time than I have to pluck away at it and learn its quirks. I just want to write scenes with it, primarily.

[David Gaider]

deuce985 wrote...
It would be much appreciated if Bioware could do this for PC gamers. Despite the hurdles and license hoops Bioware has to go through, at this point it wouldn't shock me to see them give PC gamers a bone. Seems like Bioware has really been breaking their back to give features fans have been requesting. It's unlikely, IMO, but with all the news coming out about DA:I it gives me optimism. If it doesn't come, that's ok. If it does, it just makes the purchase of DA:I that much easier.

Yeah, it's mostly a result of a toolkit (or any kind of modding support) relying almost completely on the efforts of our Programming department-- and that's one of the department's who's most heavily overtasked by virtue of us trying to wrest a new engine to our purposes. So it's a scheduling issue as much as it's anything-- when/if can it be done, amidst all the other projects that are (and must be) our primary focus.

Modifié par David Gaider, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:10 .

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Interesting. In my (granted, limited) experience, the conversation editor is often the most difficult head to wrestle to the ground in toolkits, while the tilesets and map editors are usually the easiest. For ShadowRun's kit to work the opposite is kind of funny to me. 

Then again... I'm sure you work in a conversation editor like a pro after so many years. So that may be an instance of just being your bread and butter?

Yeah, I'm not certain how difficult a normal person (heh... normal) would find their conversation editor. I just know that I opened it up, loaded one of their conversation files, and started picking out how theirs functions differently from ours. Pretty easy, on the whole, primarily because there are basic functions that conversation editors (good ones, anyhow) would all share.

[Allan Schumacher]

Any game that is data driven will be moddable on some level. But how easy it is to modify the data that the game cares about is another matter altogether. Especially if the data ends up getting bundled in particular ways that the engine expects.

[Allan Schumacher]

Perhaps I'm being a bit nitpicky but unless the toolset is freely available to download and start using independent of the game itself, people still pay for the toolset.

[Allan Schumacher]

addiction21 wrote...

Just a little nitpicky

I buy a video game if a free toolkit is availbe I look at that as a gift or it was something that was intended to be delivered.

Wouldn't that just mean that the inclusion of the toolkit ups the value of the software for you, and as such you feel you get more for the money you are paying?

[Allan Schumacher]

Absolutely more so if I actualy like the game and want to mod or use mods for it. I still feel its a nice gift and no developer is obligated to provide free of charge or it should be held against them if there is no toolkit or they choose to charge for it.

Ok. Where does the distinction begin between whether or not something is "free" then? Since your response validates my impression that it's part of the value of the product, and as such it makes it easier for you to buy it (i.e. it's not free.  It's just another feature)

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:18 .

[Allan Schumacher]

If I do not pay for it it is free. I have been sitting here watching the final of Burn Notice and now the Pats vs Jets game and staring at this reply for over an hour. I dont know how else to say it or if theres something else you want to know.

Well, to start waxing philosophically:

Are sidequests free? Joinable companions (or at least the optional ones)? Is Mass Effect's multiplayer free, but only to someone that doesn't buy the game with the explicit intent of playing the multiplayer?


I ask because games that end up scoring big with supporting mods, like Half-Life and Skyrim, tend to have much greater shelf lives at higher price points.

Would as many people still be okay paying $60 for Skyrim if the game definitively did not have a modding community?

[Allan Schumacher]

Skyrim would still have done exceptionally well WITHOUT modding. Why? It was the rage

I actually agree with this. Half-Life as well, to some extent. Half-Life, to me, is a better example of a modding success story however, but I'll concede that Skyrim probably sells a decent amount of PC copies simply because people know that there will be some mods that come with it.

Whether or not that number is significant, however, I can only speculate on too

[Allan Schumacher]

So would it be prudent to forecast that the BSNers would have less "ummmpff" and volume about DAI's features that they didn't like - if they were provided with a toolkit to customize more to their taste?
Instead many would be busy modding?!

Well, contrary to what many do think, BioWare (a company that has released two games with toolsets) *does* recognize the types of benefits that can come with the availability of said toolset. We also recognize the costs associated with it.

It's non-trivial, and there's a lot of extra challenges and dependencies that we make use of that complicate things, unfortunately.

I mean, on the plus side, some of the third party stuff that was in earlier Frostbite builds is now being done by in house EA tools (since that evolution still has advantages to us), so it may become more feasible.  I wouldn't bet on it for DAI, unfortunately.

It probably didn't help that our release of the DA Toolset wasn't without its issues as well, which helps solidify concerns and potential costs.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 septembre 2013 - 07:25 .