201 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Mods extend the time people play the game, which likely expands the market for DLC. So I don't think there's any inherent conflict there.

[Allan Schumacher]

Regarding your last point: Is that true? When I finally got a computer that could handle DA games my first thought was what mods I'd be able to run. I was spoiled on some of the armors, weapons and plot fixes and wanted to make sure I'd still be able to experience them.

I don't have any knowledge to the actual breakdown, but just in my own experience with myself and with friends, virtually none of us use mods.

For myself, I use mods very selectively. The last one I snagged was Sawyer's mod for Fallout: New Vegas, and that one has an X-Factor in that it's one of the designers of the game creating a mod that allowed for the cross-DLC support and a better envisioning of a game feature he wanted to make.

Aside from that, the vast bulk of my mods have only been the very high profile ones that are usually total conversions. I have also noticed that as I have gotten older, my willingness and ability to seek out mods diminishes.

Now, this is just an anecdote, but I wouldn't be surprised if modding was an endeavour of the hardcore fans more than others.

[Wozearly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Now, this is just an anecdote, but I wouldn't be surprised if modding was an endeavour of the hardcore fans more than others.

It would be difficult to disagree with that statement. I'd expect that both modders and mod installers are disproportionately more likely to be hardcore fans.

Speaking personally, I've found a number of mods to be great additions. DA:O, the Elder Scrolls series and Jagged Alliance all did very, very well from modders (in my view). I've also been part of mod groups for games by Creative Assembly, Akella and Paradox, although that was when I had a lot more free time on my hands.

However much I value them, I'm also under no illusions that the majority of game purchasers will never install mods, and the majority of modders will not make a decision to buy a game based on its modding potential (albeit there may be an indirect benefit to DLC and future series sales on the back of mods keeping interest over a longer time period).

[PsychoBlonde]

I tend to use only a very few mods, myself. I (almost) always prefer the vanilla content to the modded content. The only exception for this are simple, non-buggy mods that give me more hair options or the one that FIXED THE HORRIBLE BROWN TEETH IN ORIGINS. GAWD that was awful. Best mod EVER.

[David Gaider]

Wozearly wrote...
It would be difficult to disagree with that statement. I'd expect that both modders and mod installers are disproportionately more likely to be hardcore fans.

Speaking personally, I've found a number of mods to be great additions. DA:O, the Elder Scrolls series and Jagged Alliance all did very, very well from modders (in my view). I've also been part of mod groups for games by Creative Assembly, Akella and Paradox, although that was when I had a lot more free time on my hands.

However much I value them, I'm also under no illusions that the majority of game purchasers will never install mods, and the majority of modders will not make a decision to buy a game based on its modding potential (albeit there may be an indirect benefit to DLC and future series sales on the back of mods keeping interest over a longer time period).

One can only extrapolate from the posted number of downloads for publicly-available mods-- but even if you were to add all those downloads up, and assume that a different user was involved each time, it would still only be a portion of the PC user base... which itself is a minority among total users.

Which kind of puts a dent in the "we won't allow mods because it will hurt DLC sales" argument, really. Even if every single PC user didn't download a piece of DLC because they could get a mod to do the same thing (and were willing to do so), that still leaves a big portion of the user base as possible buyers... and I really doubt that's the case.

Ultimately the main reason to assist modding is because modding adds to the enjoyment of the game for those who use it, and keeps the game on their hard drives for longer (which, statistically, means they are actually more likely to buy DLC and not less). It's also a goodwill gesture, which I think PC users appreciate, and helps keep the hardcore community alive-- which is important to BioWare. So if we can find a way, I suspect we will. I just don't think that the total numbers in and of themselves are ever going to support an argument for or against.

[Fast Jimmy]

David,


Have you gotten a chance to mess around with Shadow Run's toolkit?

[Wulfram]

SkyUI claims 2 million unique downloads, that would be a pretty major proportion of PC sales if true I think, though I guess still a minority.

But hopefully DA:I's UI won't be in so obvious need of modding

Modifié par Wulfram, 10 septembre 2013 - 07:59 .

[Magdalena11]

Thank you, Mr. Schumacher and Mr. Gaider, for responding. I love playing both DAO and DA2 and will do so even without mods. For one thing, they sometimes conflict with each other. Most of the mods I use are regarding aesthetics and I'm sure my inquisitor won't be wearing granny panties or long johns this time around when the armor comes off. I'm sure I'll be able to find hairstyles I can live with for the 500+ hours I'll be playing. With any luck, the story will proceed in a natural way and not require any helpers, like Jowan's Intention. I'm even hoping for some Day 1 DLC that will give my first character a little boost to make the early levels a bit more fun and sink the hook in. One of the strongest areas in the DA world is its visual intensity. The new game looks like it's going to come through in spades there. The characters looked like actual people shot on film, not cartoons. The scenery was full of little details like wildflowers. I can appreciate the desire not to have amateurs hack into a carefully written and developed game. I only hope and expect that they will not need to.

Modifié par Magdalena11, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:01 .

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
David,

Have you gotten a chance to mess around with Shadow Run's toolkit?

Mostly their conversation editor, to be honest. Which is interesting. I'd work on a module, but the rest of the toolkit is so impenetrable it would require more time than I have to pluck away at it and learn its quirks. I just want to write scenes with it, primarily.

[Adela]

mods don't stop me form buying DLC's I've downloaded tons of mods for both DAO and DA2 and also got every DLC for both games

Modifié par ag99, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[deuce985]

It would be much appreciated if Bioware could do this for PC gamers. Despite the hurdles and license hoops Bioware has to go through, at this point it wouldn't shock me to see them give PC gamers a bone. Seems like Bioware has really been breaking their back to give features fans have been requesting. It's unlikely, IMO, but with all the news coming out about DA:I it gives me optimism. If it doesn't come, that's ok. If it does, it just makes the purchase of DA:I that much easier.

Modifié par deuce985, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:03 .

[Fast Jimmy]

David Gaider wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
David,

Have you gotten a chance to mess around with Shadow Run's toolkit?

Mostly their conversation editor, to be honest. Which is interesting. I'd work on a module, but the rest of the toolkit is so impenetrable it would require more time than I have to pluck away at it and learn its quirks. I just want to write scenes with it, primarily.

Interesting. In my (granted, limited) experience, the conversation editor is often the most difficult head to wrestle to the ground in toolkits, while the tilesets and map editors are usually the easiest. For ShadowRun's kit to work the opposite is kind of funny to me. 

Then again... I'm sure you work in a conversation editor like a pro after so many years. So that may be an instance of just being your bread and butter?

[David Gaider]

deuce985 wrote...
It would be much appreciated if Bioware could do this for PC gamers. Despite the hurdles and license hoops Bioware has to go through, at this point it wouldn't shock me to see them give PC gamers a bone. Seems like Bioware has really been breaking their back to give features fans have been requesting. It's unlikely, IMO, but with all the news coming out about DA:I it gives me optimism. If it doesn't come, that's ok. If it does, it just makes the purchase of DA:I that much easier.

Yeah, it's mostly a result of a toolkit (or any kind of modding support) relying almost completely on the efforts of our Programming department-- and that's one of the department's who's most heavily overtasked by virtue of us trying to wrest a new engine to our purposes. So it's a scheduling issue as much as it's anything-- when/if can it be done, amidst all the other projects that are (and must be) our primary focus.

Modifié par David Gaider, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:10 .

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
Interesting. In my (granted, limited) experience, the conversation editor is often the most difficult head to wrestle to the ground in toolkits, while the tilesets and map editors are usually the easiest. For ShadowRun's kit to work the opposite is kind of funny to me. 

Then again... I'm sure you work in a conversation editor like a pro after so many years. So that may be an instance of just being your bread and butter?

Yeah, I'm not certain how difficult a normal person (heh... normal) would find their conversation editor. I just know that I opened it up, loaded one of their conversation files, and started picking out how theirs functions differently from ours. Pretty easy, on the whole, primarily because there are basic functions that conversation editors (good ones, anyhow) would all share.

[Lord Raijin]

ag99 wrote...

mods don't stop me form buying DLC's I've downloaded tons of mods for both DAO and DA2 and also got every DLC for both games

I'm with you I think Its silly to even suggest that having access to unlimited amount of mods will restrict the sells of DLCs.

Unfortunetly with Dragon Age series theirs simply not a whole lot of mods to explore, however in Skyrim while I have access to a lot mods I still bought both Dragonborn DLC and Dawnguard DLC.

If BioWare treats me well by allowing mod writers the ability to use their talents to create as many mods as they can I will return that respect by buying their DLC's among other things You scarch my back and I will scratch yours

Having access to mods is important for me as a player

[Wissenschaft]

I wonder if people would be willing to buy a DA: I tool kit DLC. If the Toolkit is a DLC, that allows the team to develop it after the game is released and make some profit off of it. The only question is, would people be willing to buy it and whether or not there would be enough sells to justify the effort?

[Lord Raijin]

I'm somewhat not liking the concept of the tool kit being used a paid DLC. Don't you think that's a bit greedy? I'm all for making a profit, but still. IMO only those who have registered their game online should have access to the toolkit for free.

Remember more mods that are created in DA:I the more people will want to buy the game so either way Bioware is still making a profit off of the game, even if they give the toolkit for free to registered game owners.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 10 septembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Wissenschaft wrote...

I wonder if people would be willing to buy a DA: I tool kit DLC. If the Toolkit is a DLC, that allows the team to develop it after the game is released and make some profit off of it. The only question is, would people be willing to buy it and whether or not there would be enough sells to justify the effort?

Why is it that you people persist with that idea of making the toolkit DLC? That is no solution at all, if they're going to make us pay for a toolkit then I'd rather not have one, stop being so desperate. The day developers start charging modders for their tools is the day modding disappears, not everyone will be willing to pay, it would limit modding.

So I'll have it being free or not at all, like many others will as well. 

[Adela]

Wissenschaft wrote...

I wonder if people would be willing to buy a DA: I tool kit DLC. If the Toolkit is a DLC, that allows the team to develop it after the game is released and make some profit off of it. The only question is, would people be willing to buy it and whether or not there would be enough sells to justify the effort?

Personally I wouldn't mind paying for it, I mean heck we already pay for DLC's so why would this be any diffrent? Also for all the hard work that BW has put through all their games, I think they damn well deserve the "extra" cash  for a toolkit dlc because its not that easy to program a it to be user friendly

Modifié par ag99, 10 septembre 2013 - 09:38 .

[Lord Raijin]

ag99 wrote...
Personally I wouldn't mind paying for it, I mean heck we already pay for DLC's so why would this be any diffrent? Also for all the hard work that BW has put through all their games, I think they damn well deserve the "extra" cash  for a toolkit dlc because its not that easy to program a it to be user friendly

So let me get this straight. When the game gets released It will most likley cost us 60 dollars. When the DLCs gets released it will cost another 10 dollars. Will DA: I get an expansion addition like what DA:O got or will it be like DA2 and have none? That's another 20 dollars if Bioware adds this in.

Thats 90 bucks.

If they damn well deserve the "extra" cash for the tookit dlc then it's fair to say that we damn well deserve the free toolkit for financially supporting the company. Don't you think thats fair?

[Adela]

Lord Raijin wrote...

ag99 wrote...
Personally I wouldn't mind paying for it, I mean heck we already pay for DLC's so why would this be any diffrent? Also for all the hard work that BW has put through all their games, I think they damn well deserve the "extra" cash  for a toolkit dlc because its not that easy to program a it to be user friendly

So let me get this straight. When the game gets released It will most likley cost us 60 dollars. When the DLCs gets released it will cost another 10 dollars. Will DA: I get an expansion addition like what DA:O got or will it be like DA2 and have none? That's another 20 dollars if Bioware adds this in.

Thats 90 bucks.

If they damn well deserve the "extra" cash for the tookit dlc then it's fair to say that we damn well deserve the free toolkit for financially supporting the company. Don't you think thats fair?

You also have to take into account, that they will spend EXTRA time to make the toolkit user friendly to all of us, that there takes quite a bit of time and alot of work to do it, so personally I see it as being fair to pay them for the additional work the've put in, to make it possible for us to make mods  as this is not their own engine and its much more complex  then the engine they've used before, as the saying goes "time is money"

Modifié par ag99, 10 septembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[berelinde]

Lord Raijin wrote...

ag99 wrote...
Personally I wouldn't mind paying for it, I mean heck we already pay for DLC's so why would this be any diffrent? Also for all the hard work that BW has put through all their games, I think they damn well deserve the "extra" cash  for a toolkit dlc because its not that easy to program a it to be user friendly

So let me get this straight. When the game gets released It will most likley cost us 60 dollars. When the DLCs gets released it will cost another 10 dollars. Will DA: I get an expansion addition like what DA:O got or will it be like DA2 and have none? That's another 20 dollars if Bioware adds this in.

Thats 90 bucks.

If they damn well deserve the "extra" cash for the tookit dlc then it's fair to say that we damn well deserve the free toolkit for financially supporting the company. Don't you think thats fair?

Toolkits aren't necessary to play mods, only to make them. With that in mind, the only people who would be asked to pay money for a toolkit would be the modders themselves. The time modders devote to the hobby far, far outweighs *any* fee they'd charge for a toolset, to the point that it becomes trivial. People make mods because they enjoy it, or at the very least because they want something done and aren't afraid to do it themselves. Over the years, I've spent thousands of hours making mods for Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate 2 and hundreds of hours making mods for Neverwinter Nights 2. Why would I object to spending $20 for something that will provide that many hours' enjoyment?

So, if BioWare decided that they would only release a toolset if modders would pay for it, I would not hesitate for a moment about buying it.

But I don't think it would come to that. If a toolset cost money to buy or use, some people would want to charge money for the mods they made using it... and that's where it gets messy. If it were a choice between charging money for a toolset or not releasing one at all, the latter is easier and avoids legal headaches.

[Lord Raijin]

ag99 wrote...
You also have to take into account, that they will spend EXTRA time to make the toolkit user friendly to all of us, that there takes quite a bit of time and alot of work to do it, so personally I see it as being fair to pay them for the additional work the've put in, to make it possible for us to make mods  as this is not their own engine and its much more complex  then the engine they've used before, as the saying goes "time is money"

It takes a lot of time to create mods that will satisfy the consumers. Look at Skyrim's mod commmunity for an example. Do you think that creating popular mods that gets over 30,000 endorcements and over 1,000,000 unique downloads can happen over night? No. It takes months if not a year to do it. BioWare should want to encourage the Mod writers to expand their creaitivity by giving them the free toolkit to make the game look even better.

I don't want Dragon Age to become another Secondlife... where you must pay to download a mod, or a skin,etc. It will be the downfall.

[Realmzmaster]

Wulfram wrote...

SkyUI claims 2 million unique downloads, that would be a pretty major proportion of PC sales if true I think, though I guess still a minority.

But hopefully DA:I's UI won't be in so obvious need of modding

The reason SkyUI has more than 2 million unique downloads is because the vanilla UI for the PC was badly designed and not optimized for the PC. PC users should not have to rely on modders to fix fundamental design flaws.

[Lord Raijin]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The reason SkyUI has more than 2 million unique downloads is because the vanilla UI for the PC was badly designed and not optimized for the PC. PC users should not have to rely on modders to fix fundamental design flaws.

<310 + approved.