201 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I still think that this idea of "paying for a toolkit" is ridiculous, it defeats the purpose of modding. Either it should be free or they should not do it at all. 

This confuses me. Your preference order really is Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit? Really?

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Regarding your last point: Is that true? When I finally got a computer that could handle DA games my first thought was what mods I'd be able to run. I was spoiled on some of the armors, weapons and plot fixes and wanted to make sure I'd still be able to experience them.

I don't have any knowledge to the actual breakdown, but just in my own experience with myself and with friends, virtually none of us use mods.

For myself, I use mods very selectively. The last one I snagged was Sawyer's mod for Fallout: New Vegas, and that one has an X-Factor in that it's one of the designers of the game creating a mod that allowed for the cross-DLC support and a better envisioning of a game feature he wanted to make.

Aside from that, the vast bulk of my mods have only been the very high profile ones that are usually total conversions. I have also noticed that as I have gotten older, my willingness and ability to seek out mods diminishes.

Now, this is just an anecdote, but I wouldn't be surprised if modding was an endeavour of the hardcore fans more than others.

My own experiences with modding are pretty limited as well.  Typically they're restricted to oufit changes.  Replacing Ashley's hair with her old bun style in ME3.  Changing Isabela's outfit in DA2 to look more piratey (yes including pants) and such.

Then there's a certain mod for ME3...

But then, when games are not especially "mod-friendly"  there may not be a lot of mods out there to use in the first place.  I mean, there's a ton for Baldur's Gate (which I have sampled, and really adds to the experience) What other games are out there that really supports modding?  The Elder Scrolls?  Civilization?

Now of course, there's Shadowrun Returns.  I've downloaded several campaign mods for that, though I haven't had a chance to try them out yet.

[AlanC9]

I don't suppose there's any way to know what percentage of DAO players ever played any mods whatsoever, is there?

[Adela]

@Lord Raijin
1st off I wouldn't really conciser being on the forums a "hobby" I mostly come here to find out if there is any new info about the game, and not really posting that much to begin with and 2nd if that was BW's decision to charge a fee for the forums then hey, its just one of those things we have to deal with, same as for example with MP I don't like the idea of it, but if they have it then I'll just deal with it, not much I can do about it its their decision.
Also this discussion about the toolkit being a DLC and if they should charge for it or not its just hypothetical, no one said that this will actually be the case we are not even sure if we will have one at all, so far they just said that they are looking into it, and if they do choose to make one we don't know in what capacity it will be, weather its free or not or is it gonna come as a DLC or something else.

Modifié par ag99, 11 septembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Is gaming as frustrating and annoying(something that seems to be particular with frostbite) as it is to make mods? I think not and I think that if they charged for a toolkit, it would limit modding, are people so desperate that they will PAY for something like a toolkit? This is something that is very wrong with gaming, people are willing to pay for things that are ridiculous. The next thing we need is to have to  pay to make mods.

How is that absurd?  That's how commerce works.  People will pay to enjoy the things they like.

I know a lot of people would not be happy with that idea. Paying for a toolkit is mostly unheard of.

But that doesn't make it absurd.  If the alternative is not getting a toolkit, then many of us would be happy to pay for a toolkit.  In fact, paying for a toolkit would probably encourage me to become a better modder.

[Renmiri1]

I just think the Keep would be even more awesome if it let us create and trade PC look & feel

I mean, I have no patience and play with a PC face and body type I hate, while some people fought with the very limited character creator for DA, or Mass Effect for days to create something that is quite nice. If I could download the end result of their efforts I probably would do so happily.

Same for the LI / companions looks, weapons and armor. If there was a little shop on the Keep, I bet it would make modders and users very happy to swap stuff. ^^

[Splinter Cell 108]

AlanC9 wrote...
This confuses me. Your preference order really is Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit? Really?

Yes it is, I don't think people should be charged to make mods. If that takes out the possibility of modding then so be it. There's already day 1 DLC, F2P and all those money grubbing schemes. Paying to be able to make mods is not something I'm willing to do and it is not something that you see happening in most games that allow modding. Why would this be confusing? This is something as ridiculous as the idea of paying for "ME3 ending DLC".

[Wulfram]

I kind of doubt there'd be enough people willing to pay for a toolset for it to make much difference. And it would create an extra expectation of support on the part of the developers.

[jones0901]

I moved from console to pc at the start of this summer. got dao, da2, oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3, and new vegas with mods. really hope DA3, will have that kind of modding community.

[FKA_Servo]

I have a question about this.

When people say "frostbite is hard to mod," or "DAI will be unmoddable," are they strictly referring to the lack of a toolkit? I'm not a mod creator, but I'm a longtime PC elder scrolls player, so I know how much potential a toolkit can unlock. DA2, which has no toolkit, still seems to have a pretty wide variety of cosmetic mods and replacer mods available, which seem like they would be really easy to do in any game.

So is there something specific to Frostbite that would prevent even these superficial mods, or are people really referring to custom items, meshes, content, etc?

Thank you!

[JCAP]

TommyServo wrote...

I have a question about this.

When people say "frostbite is hard to mod," or "DAI will be unmoddable," are they strictly referring to the lack of a toolkit? I'm not a mod creator, but I'm a longtime PC elder scrolls player, so I know how much potential a toolkit can unlock. DA2, which has no toolkit, still seems to have a pretty wide variety of cosmetic mods and replacer mods available, which seem like they would be really easy to do in any game.

So is there something specific to Frostbite that would prevent even these superficial mods, or are people really referring to custom items, meshes, content, etc?

Thank you!

The way I understand it, in DA2 is very hard to mod and you can only make cosmestic mods. Because modding in DA2 is basically making a mesh/texture and replacing the original file.

Toolkit can do that and much more with less work.


Frostbite seems to be a real tricky engine from what I read. Don't ask me why, though.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Yes it is, I don't think people should be charged to make mods. If that takes out the possibility of modding then so be it. There's already day 1 DLC, F2P and all those money grubbing schemes. Paying to be able to make mods is not something I'm willing to do and it is not something that you see happening in most games that allow modding. Why would this be confusing? This is something as ridiculous as the idea of paying for "ME3 ending DLC".

Because you don't want to do something is not a reason to prevent others from doing that thing.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


Because you don't want to do something is not a reason to prevent others from doing that thing.

Have I said that I want to prevent others from doing anything? I don't think so, I'm merely stating why I don't want to pay for a toolkit.  If people want to pay for something like that, it is their business. Peronally, I think it is stupid to pay to make mods. If what people around here say is true and that only a minority creates mods, then charging for a toolkit will only inevitably hamper modding. I stated my opinion, if people don't like it, well that's not really my problem. 

[Fast Jimmy]

TommyServo wrote...

I have a question about this.

When people say "frostbite is hard to mod," or "DAI will be unmoddable," are they strictly referring to the lack of a toolkit? I'm not a mod creator, but I'm a longtime PC elder scrolls player, so I know how much potential a toolkit can unlock. DA2, which has no toolkit, still seems to have a pretty wide variety of cosmetic mods and replacer mods available, which seem like they would be really easy to do in any game.

So is there something specific to Frostbite that would prevent even these superficial mods, or are people really referring to custom items, meshes, content, etc? 

Thank you!

From my (very limited) understanding, it is not just a matter of not having a toolkit. DA2 had no toolkit and, while modding was hard, it was possible.

When the Frostbite engine was first debuted, the developer, DICE, made the boast that it was completely unmoddable. Not that they wouldn't be making a toolkit, nor that they wouldn't provide guides or support... but that the system itself would be impossible to mod without the engine tools they used in house.

Modders saw this as a challenge and a very simple mod was eventually released a few months later, but it took a team of dedicated and experienced modders and programmers to accomplish the most basic of cosmetic mods. This was three years ago, when Modern Warfare 3 came out, and more mods have been made and some bigger ones are now on the horizon. So it is not TRULY unmoddable.

But, that being said, it may take a few years to have any sort of mods worth a hill of beans for DA:I. Which, for all intents and purposes, makes it close to worthless, since the game will be close to releasing a sequel at that time (or very close to it).

[FKA_Servo]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


From my (very limited) understanding, it is not just a matter of not having a toolkit. DA2 had no toolkit and, while modding was hard, it was possible.

When the Frostbite engine was first debuted, the developer, DICE, made the boast that it was completely unmoddable. Not that they wouldn't be making a toolkit, nor that they wouldn't provide guides or support... but that the system itself would be impossible to mod without the engine tools they used in house.

Modders saw this as a challenge and a very simple mod was eventually released a few months later, but it took a team of dedicated and experienced modders and programmers to accomplish the most basic of cosmetic mods. This was three years ago, when Modern Warfare 3 came out, and more mods have been made and some bigger ones are now on the horizon. So it is not TRULY unmoddable.

But, that being said, it may take a few years to have any sort of mods worth a hill of beans for DA:I. Which, for all intents and purposes, makes it close to worthless, since the game will be close to releasing a sequel at that time (or very close to it).

Thanks for the response. What a weird thing to boast about.

How involved is modding for DA2, then? I've only played it on console. I know that making a replacer in Oblivion or Skyrim could be as simple as throwing something together in nifskope and renaming and filing it appropriately. I didn't think a toolkit was necessary for something that basic. I'm guessing the game itself has to allow for a specific directory to "overrule" the game files at all?

Modifié par TommyServo, 11 septembre 2013 - 05:49 .

[ankuu]

I would love to have the option of using mods. Personally, I jump 5 m high when I see the dreadful spiders, and I've always played with a mod that swaps them with ANYTHING else. Since I presume they are enemies again, I want to be able to change them.

[JCAP]

TommyServo wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


From my (very limited) understanding, it is not just a matter of not having a toolkit. DA2 had no toolkit and, while modding was hard, it was possible.

When the Frostbite engine was first debuted, the developer, DICE, made the boast that it was completely unmoddable. Not that they wouldn't be making a toolkit, nor that they wouldn't provide guides or support... but that the system itself would be impossible to mod without the engine tools they used in house.

Modders saw this as a challenge and a very simple mod was eventually released a few months later, but it took a team of dedicated and experienced modders and programmers to accomplish the most basic of cosmetic mods. This was three years ago, when Modern Warfare 3 came out, and more mods have been made and some bigger ones are now on the horizon. So it is not TRULY unmoddable.

But, that being said, it may take a few years to have any sort of mods worth a hill of beans for DA:I. Which, for all intents and purposes, makes it close to worthless, since the game will be close to releasing a sequel at that time (or very close to it).

Thanks for the response. What a weird thing to boast about.

How involved is modding for DA2, then? I've only played it on console. I know that making a replacer in Oblivion or Skyrim could be as simple as throwing something together in nifskope and renaming and filing it appropriately. I didn't think a toolkit was necessary for something that basic. I'm guessing the game itself has to allow for a specific directory to "overrule" the game files at all?

Not close to DA:O I'm afraid. Maybe there are some interesting cosmestic mods (depending on your tastes) but IMO there is really nothing worth mentioning. Only mod I used was one that killed every enemy that appeared. (Used it when I was readying my saves army for DA:I, looking back, it was a total waste of time now that we will have DA Keep)


On a side note, the engine used by Bethesda was created with mods in mind. I don't think there is another engine more mod friendly compared to it.

[FKA_Servo]

Interesting - thanks guys.

I only play TES games and certain MMO's on PC for the most part, so I haven't really been very involved with modding beyond that. I just sort of assumed you could mod pretty much any game on that superficial level no matter what.

Modifié par TommyServo, 11 septembre 2013 - 07:46 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Any game that is data driven will be moddable on some level. But how easy it is to modify the data that the game cares about is another matter altogether. Especially if the data ends up getting bundled in particular ways that the engine expects.

[Wulfram]

JCAP wrote...

The way I understand it, in DA2 is very hard to mod and you can only make cosmestic mods. Because modding in DA2 is basically making a mesh/texture and replacing the original file.

You can make mechanical mods too.  Like changing what an item or talent does, or the difficulty levels.

Which I think can be valuable.  I'd love to tweak a few numbers in ME1

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 septembre 2013 - 08:12 .

[JCAP]

Wulfram wrote...

JCAP wrote...

The way I understand it, in DA2 is very hard to mod and you can only make cosmestic mods. Because modding in DA2 is basically making a mesh/texture and replacing the original file.

You can make mechanical mods too.  Like changing what an item or talent does, or the difficulty levels.

Which I think can be valuable.  I'd love to tweak a few numbers in ME1

Forgot those, and cheat mods too.

Modifié par JCAP, 11 septembre 2013 - 08:22 .

[bossk-office]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have also noticed that as I have gotten older, my willingness and ability to seek out mods diminishes.

Do not go gently into that good night!
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!

Modifié par panchamkauns, 11 septembre 2013 - 10:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

JCAP wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

JCAP wrote...

The way I understand it, in DA2 is very hard to mod and you can only make cosmestic mods. Because modding in DA2 is basically making a mesh/texture and replacing the original file.

You can make mechanical mods too.  Like changing what an item or talent does, or the difficulty levels.

Which I think can be valuable.  I'd love to tweak a few numbers in ME1

Forgot those, and cheat mods too.

Some of the mods changed the game quite dramatically.  There was more than one mod that let you equip your companions with armour, which was a pretty big change to how the game worked.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Some of the mods changed the game quite dramatically.  There was more than one mod that let you equip your companions with armour, which was a pretty big change to how the game worked.

Which is, interestingly enough, conceptually similar to the proposed system for DAI. 

[Maverick827]

The biggest loss with not having a toolkit is not being able to fix bugs. I doubt BioWare can/will keep up the bug fixes as long as moders could, but a specific effort on that front would go a long way.