201 réponses à ce sujet

[WolfShapedBullet]

ankuu wrote...

I would love to have the option of using mods. Personally, I jump 5 m high when I see the dreadful spiders, and I've always played with a mod that swaps them with ANYTHING else. Since I presume they are enemies again, I want to be able to change them.

^This. *Shudders* Would swapping models be too hard as well as any other modding, to anyones' knowledge?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Have I said that I want to prevent others from doing anything? I don't think so, I'm merely stating why I don't want to pay for a toolkit.  If people want to pay for something like that, it is their business. Peronally, I think it is stupid to pay to make mods. If what people around here say is true and that only a minority creates mods, then charging for a toolkit will only inevitably hamper modding. I stated my opinion, if people don't like it, well that's not really my problem.

Alan asked if you position was "Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit".  You said it was.  Therefore, you oppose the availability of a non-free toolkit.

Otherwise, you should have no preference between No Toolkit and a Paid Toolkit, because your refusal to pay for a toolkit means that those two options are materially identical to you.

I was just following the reasoning.

[Renmiri1]

Oblivionous wrote...

ankuu wrote...

I would love to have the option of using mods. Personally, I jump 5 m high when I see the dreadful spiders, and I've always played with a mod that swaps them with ANYTHING else. Since I presume they are enemies again, I want to be able to change them.

^This. *Shudders* Would swapping models be too hard as well as any other modding, to anyones' knowledge?

Frostbite seems to be very unfriendly to mods but.. hell hath no fury creativity like a game modder' challenged 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 12 septembre 2013 - 06:06 .

[Realmzmaster]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oblivionous wrote...

ankuu wrote...

I would love to have the option of using mods. Personally, I jump 5 m high when I see the dreadful spiders, and I've always played with a mod that swaps them with ANYTHING else. Since I presume they are enemies again, I want to be able to change them.

^This. *Shudders* Would swapping models be too hard as well as any other modding, to anyones' knowledge?

Frostbite seems to be very unfriendly to mods but.. hell hath no fury creativity like a game modder' challenged 

I am sure there will be mods, but by the time those mods arrive will anybody really care? Or will the next installment of DA already be in the wings waiting release?

[JCAP]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Oblivionous wrote...

ankuu wrote...

I would love to have the option of using mods. Personally, I jump 5 m high when I see the dreadful spiders, and I've always played with a mod that swaps them with ANYTHING else. Since I presume they are enemies again, I want to be able to change them.

^This. *Shudders* Would swapping models be too hard as well as any other modding, to anyones' knowledge?

Frostbite seems to be very unfriendly to mods but.. hell hath no fury creativity like a game modder' challenged 

I am sure there will be mods, but by the time those mods arrive will anybody really care? Or will the next installment of DA already be in the wings waiting release?

The real question is: will the mods be good enough?

tricky engine + very dedicated modder = not higher than 5 out of 10 mods

DA2 is not mod friendly, and the mods are not that good. Now imagine a engine even more unfriendly.

[Maria Caliban]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Alan asked if you position was "Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit".  You said it was.  Therefore, you oppose the availability of a non-free toolkit.

Otherwise, you should have no preference between No Toolkit and a Paid Toolkit, because your refusal to pay for a toolkit means that those two options are materially identical to you.

I was just following the reasoning.

I am strawberry ice cream > vanilla ice cream > chocolate ice cream.

That doesn't mean I oppose chocolate ice cream. That means I prefer strawberry when I get the chance.

[Am1vf]

JCAP wrote...
(...)
The real question is: will the mods be good enough?

tricky engine + very dedicated modder = not higher than 5 out of 10 mods

DA2 is not mod friendly, and the mods are not that good. Now imagine a engine even more unfriendly.

I like Addonnay's Assorted Armoury.

Keep in mind that DA2 was also very disappointing for a lot of people and many think it is a terrible game (agreeing with them or not is irrelevant for this), those people are unlikely to make mods for a game they don't want to play. If the game is popular more people is likely to be motivated to mod it.

Modifié par Am1_vf, 12 septembre 2013 - 07:52 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Alan asked if you position was "Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit".  You said it was.  Therefore, you oppose the availability of a non-free toolkit.

Otherwise, you should have no preference between No Toolkit and a Paid Toolkit, because your refusal to pay for a toolkit means that those two options are materially identical to you.

I was just following the reasoning.

What? No, maybe I misread that  or something. As far as I'm aware I do have a preference, if the toolkit is not going to be free, then I'd prefer that they do no toolkit. In the end as I've said, it will hamper modding. Modding has a lot to do with the lack of restrictions, people are free to do whatever they wish to do with it. If you start placing monetary restrictions on a tool that could make modding so much easier, then it will undoubtedly limit the amount of people and mods that will be made. Of course you can try doing it with a toolkit, but somehow I don't think that will result in anything but cosmetics. 

Aside from that, I know modding can be a hobby but it can also be tedious and frustrating, especially if you start going towards scripting and coding. Personally, I'm not going to pay anything for using up around 100-300 hours of my time making up some mod if I'm not going to get anything out of it. I'd rather just play the game. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 12 septembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[AlanC9]

How can a paid toolkit hamper modding more than no toolkit at all?

[Splinter Cell 108]

AlanC9 wrote...

How can a paid toolkit hamper modding more than no toolkit at all?

Sure, no toolkit will probably hamper modding more than paying for one. What worries me is this, if a company starts charging for toolkits and it works out. What happens when other companies start charging to make mods? Like, I said before there is enough crap that we have to deal with games. Preorder bonuses, F2P, DLC, online passes, season passes, ending DLC, whatever. Do you want to add paid modding to that list? 

Regardless of that, my reasoning still stands, if someone were to charge for a toolkit it will result in less mods than it would if nobody had to pay. What I don't get is why people are willing to pay for this? Many other games offer toolkits for free, better to mod those games, provided the people who want to mod like those games of course. 

I'm getting tires of this discussion, it is rather pointless IMO and it is going nowhere. I'd be very happy if they released a free toolkit, if they want to charge for it then I'd honestly prefer if they didn't release it at all. If they do charge for it and release, I'm not paying for it, end of story.

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 12 septembre 2013 - 09:25 .

[AlanC9]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Regardless of that, my reasoning still stands, if someone were to charge for a toolkit it will result in less mods than it would if nobody had to pay. What I don't get is why people are willing to pay for this? Many other games offer toolkits for free, better to mod those games, provided the people who want to mod like those games of course.

That's the problem. A toolset for another game is not a substitute for the toolset you want. 

Why wouldn't I be willing to pay for something that gives me value? Or better still, have someone else pay and make the mods,  which I then get for free.

I'm getting tires of this discussion, it is rather pointless IMO and it is going nowhere. I'd be very happy if they released a free toolkit, if they want to charge for it then I'd honestly prefer if they didn't release it at all. If they do charge for it and release, I'm not paying for it, end of story.

The problem isn't that you're not paying for a toolset -- nobody gives a damn about what you do. The problem is that you're saying that nobody else should be able to pay for it even if they want to.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 septembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

AlanC9 wrote...
Why wouldn't I be willing to pay for something that gives me value? Or better still, have someone else pay and make the mods,  which I then get for free.

And you know they'll be free? I'm willing to bet that if they charge for a toolkit, I don't really think mod will be free. Modders would probably charge for their stuff, since they themselves already had to pay, or at least they would demand that they get paid, it wouldn't be fair to them. I know I would charge people to download my mods if I had to pay to make them. 

AlanC9 wrote...


The problem isn't that you're not paying for a toolset -- nobody gives a damn about what you do. The problem is that you're saying that nobody else should be able to pay for it even if they want to.

Someone seems give a damn about what I do, apparently since you're making this big fuss about a whole lot of nothing. What I say and what gets done are too completely different things, its not like I control BioWare or something. I really don't get what is the big deal, i said "I prefer" not "I demand" or anything of the sort and my preference is to have no toolkit if it came to paying for it. Does this somehown deny anyone else their preferences? Does this somehow make BioWare choose them over me? Am I that important to them and to you apparently, since my preferences now deny everyone else of what they want? 

Does whatever a company decides, hinge on my preferences? 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

How can a paid toolkit hamper modding more than no toolkit at all?

Sure, no toolkit will probably hamper modding more than paying for one. What worries me is this, if a company starts charging for toolkits and it works out. What happens when other companies start charging to make mods? Like, I said before there is enough crap that we have to deal with games. Preorder bonuses, F2P, DLC, online passes, season passes, ending DLC, whatever. Do you want to add paid modding to that list? 

Regardless of that, my reasoning still stands, if someone were to charge for a toolkit it will result in less mods than it would if nobody had to pay. What I don't get is why people are willing to pay for this? Many other games offer toolkits for free, better to mod those games, provided the people who want to mod like those games of course. 

I'm getting tires of this discussion, it is rather pointless IMO and it is going nowhere. I'd be very happy if they released a free toolkit, if they want to charge for it then I'd honestly prefer if they didn't release it at all. If they do charge for it and release, I'm not paying for it, end of story.

The same reason why any hobbyist pays for the tools of their hobby because they want to pay for it. Hobbyists would love that all the tools of their hobby were free. If a person wants to pursue a hobby then they will set aside the necessary financial means to do so from the person playing Magic the Gathering and buying cards to the coin/stamp collector buying albums to house a collection.

You make the assumption that the modder wishes to mod other games. A modder would not mod a game the modder have no interest in. I have yet to meet someone who invests many hours to mod a game that the person has no interest in.

If a modder wishes to mod it  may require that the modder has to pay for a toolkit or use other means to mod the game. The toolkit simply makes it easier.

The choice is always the consumer's to make in regards to how the consumer wishes to spend his/her money whether it be buying dlc or a toolkit. If the option is no toolkit versus paying a small amount for a toolkit I can see many paying that same amount. If one is worried that may create a trend that is up to each individual developer.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 septembre 2013 - 10:19 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Many modders have already made significant investments into their hobby. Maya, for example, isn't free.

[Allan Schumacher]

Perhaps I'm being a bit nitpicky but unless the toolset is freely available to download and start using independent of the game itself, people still pay for the toolset.

[Adela]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
 Maya, for example, isn't free.

It can be somewhat "free" if you get the student version but you cant use it for comercial use

Modifié par ag99, 12 septembre 2013 - 11:08 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Alan asked if you position was "Free toolkit > No toolkit > Paid toolkit".  You said it was.  Therefore, you oppose the availability of a non-free toolkit.

Otherwise, you should have no preference between No Toolkit and a Paid Toolkit, because your refusal to pay for a toolkit means that those two options are materially identical to you.

I was just following the reasoning.

I am strawberry ice cream > vanilla ice cream > chocolate ice cream.

That doesn't mean I oppose chocolate ice cream. That means I prefer strawberry when I get the chance.

That's incongruent. Simply because one of the options Sylvius laid out was the lack of any other options.

Vanilla Ice Cream > No ice cream for anyone, ever, in the entire world > Strawberry ice cream.

That's not the opinion of someone who just prefers vanilla over strawberry. That's someone who would rather see the destruction of ice cream rather than deal with strawberry.

[addiction21]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Perhaps I'm being a bit nitpicky but unless the toolset is freely available to download and start using independent of the game itself, people still pay for the toolset.

Just a little nitpicky

I buy a video game if a free toolkit is availbe I look at that as a gift or it was something that was intended to be delivered.

If a developer decided they would charge for a toolkit that is fine by me. It is a business afterall and that is their preogitive for producing this good.

And I know before saying it that it is unpopular but if it was a paid toolkit then I believe all that would want to not just make but also use the mods need to ante up some money. For this situation I see no reason why those creating the mods would have to shoulder everything from money to the work.

[Fast Jimmy]

addiction21 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Perhaps I'm being a bit nitpicky but unless the toolset is freely available to download and start using independent of the game itself, people still pay for the toolset.

Just a little nitpicky

I buy a video game if a free toolkit is availbe I look at that as a gift or it was something that was intended to be delivered.

If a developer decided they would charge for a toolkit that is fine by me. It is a business afterall and that is their preogitive for producing this good.

And I know before saying it that it is unpopular but if it was a paid toolkit then I believe all that would want to not just make but also use the mods need to ante up some money. For this situation I see no reason why those creating the mods would have to shoulder everything from money to the work.

I share in this philosophy... but I think it would be just a better model all round if the toolkits were free (to allow more numerous mods to be present) and certain mods could be optionally (depending on the modder themselves)charged for, of which Bioware would take a cut.

After all, paying for a toolkit is going to reduce the number of people who would use it, considerably. If you did that and also charged for mods, the market would be near non-existent. If, instead, you let people make the content for free, but then gave the option to monetize their hobby and work, this could result in a larger number of mods than a paid toolkit, while also, arguably, increasing the quality fo the mods available, since there would be financial incentive for modders to do so (instead of "I'll do this when I get some spare time" like can all-too-often happen with hobby projects).

Basically, the total inverse of the NWN ideology.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:21 .

[Angrywolves]

Obvious it won't be mod friendly.

[Allan Schumacher]

addiction21 wrote...

Just a little nitpicky

I buy a video game if a free toolkit is availbe I look at that as a gift or it was something that was intended to be delivered.

Wouldn't that just mean that the inclusion of the toolkit ups the value of the software for you, and as such you feel you get more for the money you are paying?

[addiction21]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Just a little nitpicky

I buy a video game if a free toolkit is availbe I look at that as a gift or it was something that was intended to be delivered.

Wouldn't that just mean that the inclusion of the toolkit ups the value of the software for you, and as such you feel you get more for the money you are paying?

Absolutely more so if I actualy like the game and want to mod or use mods for it. I still feel its a nice gift and no developer is obligated to provide free of charge or it should be held against them if there is no toolkit or they choose to charge for it.

Fast Jimmy wrote...
snip

Or that. At the end of the day I am out to buy a video game.  A free toolkit, paid modkit, pay to access mods or pay per mod ultimately still leaves me and my dollar with the choice.

[Allan Schumacher]

Absolutely more so if I actualy like the game and want to mod or use mods for it. I still feel its a nice gift and no developer is obligated to provide free of charge or it should be held against them if there is no toolkit or they choose to charge for it.

Ok. Where does the distinction begin between whether or not something is "free" then? Since your response validates my impression that it's part of the value of the product, and as such it makes it easier for you to buy it (i.e. it's not free.  It's just another feature)

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 septembre 2013 - 12:18 .

[Demx]

I'm curious, does Dice get a say about a toolset for DAI?

[JCAP]

Siradix wrote...

I'm curious, does Dice get a say about a toolset for DAI?

I think so, they're the ones who created the engine.