223 réponses à ce sujet

[Burnouts3s3]

 This seems to be the biggest issue concerning the game. 

For some reason, the developers have decided to move away from tradition isometic combat (which I though was perfectly fine) and use a more stream-lined approach. And while I do admit to liking the cross-class combos, I feel that 'Wave' combat is a mess that provides little to no experience, is placed at random points, and all in all feels rather sluggish and throws strategy out the window. 

In my opinion, to create the greatest profit, one need only look at the statistics:


I know the temptation is great to have a rather slap-dashed game with multiplayer options, but I feel emphasis should be made for a deeper and complex game that old-school cRPG fans will enjoy. Dragon Age: Origins followed this model and it was financially successful with additional profits coming from DLC conent. By doing this, Bioware can and will win in the long term business, rebuild developer integrity and have a whole new market where an attempt to appeal to a more mainstream audience failed. 

[Maria Caliban]

DA II was in development for two years, DA:O for 5-7 years. Even with half the sales, they'd still make more profit.

As for combat, I prefer large two-handed swords for to chop up baddies, but even more than that, I'd prefer stealth or non-lethal options.

[deuce985]

Was it financially successful though? 5 year development cycle and about 4-5 million copies sold. DA2 is on about a year and six month dev cycle - sold about half of DAO. Which would you view as being more financially successful for the company? Probably DA2 because I doubt it came close to DAO's budget. I don't think you can say for sure that DAO was a big success for Bioware financially.

That probably also played into why EA/Bioware decided to make DA2 so fast. Bank on the success and recover whatever money they lost over the years.

To be honest with you, DA3 can be an absolutely amazing game and it still won't see huge commercial numbers. I believe once some gamers view a franchise as being "damaged", they won't give them a second chance. I think some gamers will have their minds made up about the game without even watching any footage, unfortunately. This might be the last DA game.

Modifié par deuce985, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:50 .

[Plaintiff]

I don't see how combat and profit are linked in any way. Sales could be due to any number of factors.

[grregg]

Burnouts3s3 wrote...

(...)

For some reason, the developers have decided to move away from tradition isometic combat (which I though was perfectly fine) and use a more stream-lined approach.

(...)

I thought they pretty much had to abandon the isometric view. They stripped so many tactical elements out of the combat system that maintaining the tactical view was kinda pointless. I was actually surprised that they didn't go all the way to twitch-based combat, it would be somewhat less of a chore that way.

I would expect BioWare to push further in this direction.

Modifié par grregg, 18 octobre 2012 - 12:57 .

[deuce985]

grregg wrote...

Burnouts3s3 wrote...

(...)

For some reason, the developers have decided to move away from tradition isometic combat (which I though was perfectly fine) and use a more stream-lined approach.

(...)

I thought they pretty much had to abandon the isometric view. They stripped so many tactical elements out of the combat system that maintaining the tactical view was kinda pointless. I was actually surprised that they didn't go all the way to twitch-based combat, it would be somewhat less of a chore that way.

I would expect BioWare to push further in this direction.

IMO, they tried to make it hybrid and it doesn't work. Some pseudo-action/tactical combat. I'd much rather them just go to full blown action or go back to the DAO style. I honestly do not believe a hybrid system like DA2 can work.

I don't think DA2's combat is half as bad as some claim on here. However, I think it's a fair claim to say they built it more like this for consoles. DAO honestly played like crap on console. I know because I played it. The PC version plays so much better. All the little things it does better turns into a big deal...IMO.

Modifié par deuce985, 18 octobre 2012 - 01:06 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

Definitely the DA2 system. Everything felt more streamlined, but not necessarily in a bad way. Having played DA2 first I found going back to the Origins system something of a chore. Still enjoyable enough, but the fact that my mage's primary attack was reduced to feeble flailing while the spell schools were arranged by element instead of by how the spells would end up used didn't sit right with me. In DA2 I ended up with fewer spells, but what spells I did have were way more convenient.

Also the wave system made for a more interesting experience with the use of AoE spells. Knowing that some of the enemies would arrive later into the fight made me consider how to use each spell more carefully.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

I thought DA2 was in development for only a year and a half. DA3 apparently has already been in development for 2 years. Anyway i'd prefer a mix of Origins and DA2 combat.

[deuce985]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I thought DA2 was in development for only a year and a half. DA3 apparently has already been in development for 2 years. Anyway i'd prefer a mix of Origins and DA2 combat.

It was. DAO had at least a 5 year development cycle.

That's what Bioware said on DA3. I'm very interested to know how exactly that worked. A year of conceptual and the other year building the engine for Bioware?? I remember reading a bunch of rumors coming out long before DA2 hit the market Bioware was seriously considering using a new engine. It makes me wonder if they've been building off Frostbite for two years now. If that's the case, I'm really excited to see what they can do with the engine. Frostbite blows my mind away. Best engine in the industry...

[Swagger7]

I want a mix. I like having to push a button for basic attacks, since you feel more involved, but I don't like the crazy stylized fighting moves of DA2. And I hate the wave system. If they made it a bit more reasonable (reinforcing enemies come from around a corner in the street or over a hill) I wouldn't mind as much.

[Rawgrim]

DA:O was in development alot longer because they had to create the whole setting for the first game.
As for the combat, I preffer the one in DA:O. The non tactical button mashing from DA2 I can do without.

[Masha Potato]

tactical button mashing

what

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

deuce985 wrote...

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

I thought DA2 was in development for only a year and a half. DA3 apparently has already been in development for 2 years. Anyway i'd prefer a mix of Origins and DA2 combat.

It was. DAO had at least a 5 year development cycle.

That's what Bioware said on DA3. I'm very interested to know how exactly that worked. A year of conceptual and the other year building the engine for Bioware?? I remember reading a bunch of rumors coming out long before DA2 hit the market Bioware was seriously considering using a new engine. It makes me wonder if they've been building off Frostbite for two years now. If that's the case, I'm really excited to see what they can do with the engine. Frostbite blows my mind away. Best engine in the industry...

Thats what I thought. I certainly hope its been in development long. I am waiting for some gameplay screens and previews of the game to see if I will preorder it.

[scootermcgaffin]

Burnouts3s3 wrote...

all in all feels rather sluggish

Wait, did you just call DA2's combat "sluggish" compared to DA:O's combat?

Like, unironically?

Modifié par scootermcgaffin, 18 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Dragon Age: Origins combat was visually about as exciting as watching paint dry, I had to fight the AI to target what I wanted to fight. Other than those issues I thought it was OK but not great.

Dragon Age Ii was visually very exciting but waves of enemies made it hard at times to know where Hawke was and what I was supposed to be fighting.  I thought it was OK but not great.

I want the best of both worlds.

[ledod]

Origins strategic, with 2's pacing: the constant ambushes blow

[scootermcgaffin]

What was strategic about Origins? Was it just because it was slow and you had to pause sometimes?

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

What was strategic about Origins? Was it just because it was slow and you had to pause sometimes?

Upon release the game was very difficult. Still is somewhat. The pace of the combat was such that you could pause and plan out strategies for what you wanted to do. It made it so that battles that would've orginally been hard would be pretty easy. ITs really more of the pacing. For DA3 we need to make a mix of the tactical aspect of Origins combat with a mix of DA2s speed.

[scootermcgaffin]

I can't really agree with that, but you know what they say; different strokes and all that.

[Realmzmaster]

First, we have no way of knowing if DAO was more profitable than DA2. The only point is that DAO sold more units. Profitability and profit margins can only be ascertained by knowing the development costs for each game.
The point that is known is that DAO sold more copies. The OP has not proven that DAO sold more because of the combat. There are a lot of other factors that come into consideration. The chart shown only show sales which does not correlate to being only because of combat.

If one wishes to say DAO sold more than DA2 I will agree with that point because that is what the chart shows. The reasons why cannot be derived from the chart. The profitability of the games also cannot be derived.

[Icinix]

Combat wise something between the two games.

I preferred the animation and movements of DAO, but I enjoyed the tactics of DA2 more, but enjoyed the greater range of abilities from DAO (by the end of all the DLC at least).

Although as mentioned above, more non-lethal methods with combat would be nice. Especially if we're inquisitors.

As for sales - well they only tell part of the story.

[Arthur Cousland]

I definitely found DA2 combat to be more fun, but it would be nice if we could get the overhead view back somehow.  With the overhead view, I can see what is going on better and can position people, and move the ranged companions out of harms way, which would help with the waves.  I did enjoy the cross class combos, the new talents and the improved two-handed and archery combat.

While Origins was the more polished and tactical game, I keep going back to DA2 more just because I find it more fun to play, and the combat has a lot to do with it.  Hopefully DA3 can have a mix of DA2's combat along with Origins' depth and polish.

If DA3 must have waves, then hopefully they at least come from doors or around the corner, rather than from the sky or anywhere behind my squishy mages.  Constantly being surrounded by enemies seemed to be the whole reason for rogues to have talents like goad, armistice, back to back and etc.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 18 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .

[Aulis Vaara]

While DA2's combat was more fun for a while it ultimately lacks depth, so my choice falls on DA:O's system, which is still a ton of fun to play.

[The Hierophant]

DA2:Legacy had a decent balance between enemy placement, and combat pacing/flow, so something similar to it would be okay.