223 réponses à ce sujet

[Teddie Sage]

Turn based, Final Fantasy X / Lord of the Ring: The Third Age style would be fun.

[Wozearly]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DA II was in development for two years, DA:O for 5-7 years. Even with half the sales, they'd still make more profit.

Agh, this illogical argument makes me see red every time I see it.

Without knowing the costs of development, how long it took is only a vague yardstick of costs, assuming they had a similar size team working on them for the same duration, and that all of the other costs (e.g. voice acting) were identical.

Perhaps more importantly, part of the development cost of DA:O was the construction of the content of the franchise from scratch, which takes time (and which under your argument DA2 essentially gets 'for free'). Its almost a dead cert that this would make DA2 look more commercially successful.

So assume DA:O didn't exist, and that DA2 was the first to market. If it went through all those sunk costs itself, and produced far inferior sales figures (assuming the quoted sales figures are true), my guess is that it would have been a far less commercially successful result than DA:O was at that point in the franchise's history.

I don't disagree at all that DA2 may have had a higher return on investment than DA:O, but that's a different thing to it being 'more profitable' or 'more commercially successful', and is expected of sequels in a franchise.

The bigger question is why DA2 failed to achieve even a similar level of sales, given that sequels tend to experience a sales boost (rather than a sales drop) in gaming when the original game was successful, because at that point the sequel has a boost from the franchise 'brand'.

Modifié par Wozearly, 19 octobre 2012 - 11:30 .

[ioannisdenton]

You can also use the poll please.
So far DA2 is winning....

[Teddie Sage]

There's nothing wrong with people preferring DA2's fighting style, just saying.

[fchopin]

The DAO combat is much harder and you have to think really hard or you will get one of your team mates killed so i prefer the DAO combat but a little faster and also the DA2 style so you can avoid getting hit when you are away from danger so a bit of both.

[ioannisdenton]

Teddie Sage wrote...

There's nothing wrong with people preferring DA2's fighting style, just saying.

The "wrong" is that the combat was too much action oriented . Draon age franchise was kinda killed in DA2. hence the sales OP presented to us. Less people who enjoy rpgs bought it and people who play rpgs are loyal customers to the genre.
Endless waves of enemies from anywhere resulted in having no strategy at all. Also the over the top rogue animations reminded me of Circus acrobatics.
Sure the combat was fast paced but the waves killed it.
I literally toned the difficulty down to casual in my second playthrough cause i got bored to death with the combat. In the last section were before you got to meredith there just too many people to kill. i just wanted to get on with it.

[Fast Jimmy]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

There's nothing wrong with people preferring DA2's fighting style, just saying.

The "wrong" is that the combat was too much action oriented . Draon age franchise was kinda killed in DA2. hence the sales OP presented to us. Less people who enjoy rpgs bought it and people who play rpgs are loyal customers to the genre.
Endless waves of enemies from anywhere resulted in having no strategy at all. Also the over the top rogue animations reminded me of Circus acrobatics.
Sure the combat was fast paced but the waves killed it.
I literally toned the difficulty down to casual in my second playthrough cause i got bored to death with the combat. In the last section were before you got to meredith there just too many people to kill. i just wanted to get on with it.

I have to agree in a large part. DA2's combat was way too action-y to appeal to RPG fans, yet still a poor example of action combat for fans who like action games. 

I'd lament if the DA series went to a system like Bayonetta or God of War, but I think it would be better if the system went one way or the other, honestly. If they want to do action gameplay, DO action gameplay. Don't try and keep a vestige of tactical that gimps your action game. Or don't try and put action gameplay in with your tactical fighting. Either way, the middle-of-the-road system in DA2 obviously turned off a lot of fans.

[MoogleNut]

Honestly, the combat in a game is merely a means to an end for me - I play for the story.
As long as the combat doesn't take half a game to get my head around (I'm looking at you Final Fantasy XIII), I'm really not bothered which style the Devs go for.

That's not to say I don't appreciate a good combat mechanic, but it's not a deal-breaker.

(Edited for spelling)

Modifié par MoogleNut, 19 octobre 2012 - 01:20 .

[Ravenmyste]

in my eyes dragon origins fighting was more aggressive and more intuitive going against what i saw in da2 i would rather have them go back to the fighting they had in da:o it just seemed more substancial in my eyes,

[Ravenmyste]

MoogleNut wrote...

Honestly, the combat in a game is merely a means to an end for me - I play for the story.
As long as the combat doesn't take half a game to get my head around (I'm looking at you Final Fantasy XIII), I'm really not bothered which style the Devs go for.

That's not to say I don't appreciate a good combat mechanic, but it's not a deal-breaker.

(Edited for spelling)

the problem of that story should affect combat, it should also tell you that what you are fighting for and make you feel why you  validate it, for me with the rogue that zev,i came to hate him so much that i wanted to kill him... so in the end i  did i slit his throat did i regret it,  some what.... i closed a part of the game that i missed on, but i felt so much better not to have him in my party

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 19 octobre 2012 - 02:07 .

[Beerfish]

Combat style
???????
Profit

[legbamel]

DA:O combat was ponderous but it suited the seriousness of the situation. DA2 combat was fun and flippant (pun intended) and made it difficult to take Kirkwall and the events seriously. It seemed like all a lark, winging about and having fun hacking my way through the denizens. While I enjoyed it, I would like combat to require a little more thought and attention in DA3. It gave the first game a lot more gravity.

[Killer3000ad]

DAO all the way. DA2's combat was bloody disaster.

[Blacklash93]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DA II was in development for two years

I remember a developer saying they didn't begin full production with DA2 until the Awakening expansion was done for Origins. I think it was at a PAX.

Anyway I'd like it more like Origins, but sped up a bit. I found Origins' combat too slow and imprecise whilst DA2's was too fast and hectic for any real strategy. Maybe it would be better to be more around the pace of how real people fight or perhaps slightly slower, rather than feeling like you're in constant slo-mo with a stick seemingly up the ass of every combatant or on speed with pretty explosions flying everywhere due to the power of awesome button.

I'd also like enemies more on-pace with the player characters and fewer (less swarming), more like Origins. And expand on cross-class combos that were in DA2 while brining back true elemental strengths/weaknesses, as well.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

Lazengan wrote...

I want DA2's animations and combat with DAO's tactical bar and strategy

combat in DAO was slow as hell

but combat in DA2 was too dumbed down, even for console idiots

Now be nice, I play on both PC and console and enjoy playing on both.  Just because there are people out there that like to play on consoles does not mean we are idiots.  Everyone plays differently and everyone enjoyes different things.

[Maverick827]

It's amazing how, after so long, people are still falsely saying that DAO was more difficult/more tactical than DA2.  DA2's nightmare mode was brutal by comparison to DAO's nightmare.

Modifié par Maverick827, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:04 .

[marshalleck]

Maverick827 wrote...

It's amazing how, after so long, people are still falsely saying that DAO was more difficult/more tactical than DA2.  DA2's nightmare mode was brutal by comparison to DAO's nightmare.

If only because enemies' health bars bloated by 7000%. Seriously that **** was ridiculous, and not in a good way.

You can have hard + fair, where mistakes are punished with death but you know exactly what it was you did wrong, so you know how to improve the next attempt. And you have hard + cheap, which is you dying because each hit on the enemy reduces its health by .01% and the gameplay basically fatigues you into slipping up. That is the impression that remains with me to this day of DA2 nightmare mode. Oh and companions running into your fireballs, so not only did you have enormous enemy health bars stacked against you, but your own terrible companion AI as well. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:18 .

[hexaligned]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I have to agree in a large part. DA2's combat was way too action-y to appeal to RPG fans, yet still a poor example of action combat for fans who like action games. 

I'd lament if the DA series went to a system like Bayonetta or God of War, but I think it would be better if the system went one way or the other, honestly. If they want to do action gameplay, DO action gameplay. Don't try and keep a vestige of tactical that gimps your action game. Or don't try and put action gameplay in with your tactical fighting. Either way, the middle-of-the-road system in DA2 obviously turned off a lot of fans.

I agree withyour overall point, but not with your first.  I mostly play strategy/strategy RPG games, I can still enjoy well done action oriented ones though.  Dragons Dogma for example.

But yes, Bioware for whatever reason is not good at making hybrid games.  They would be better off picking one style and making sure they do it well, imo.

Modifié par relhart, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:14 .

[ScarMK]

marshalleck wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

It's amazing how, after so long, people are still falsely saying that DAO was more difficult/more tactical than DA2.  DA2's nightmare mode was brutal by comparison to DAO's nightmare.

If only because enemies' health bars bloated by 7000%. Seriously that **** was ridiculous, and not in a good way.

Pretty much this.  DA2 was harder, but only because they just slapped mechanics on.  Enemies coming in waves, enemies being immune to almost everything but a couple of elements.  Rogues getting invincibility frames for cloaking....  The HP potions were a nice touch though, but combined with the bloated HP?  No, just no.

[MichaelStuart]

I never found either Dragon Age game hard on Nightmare, just long and repetitive.
I believe that once a strategy to beat a enemy is found, the enemy should die quickly, regardless of difficultly level.
The actual difficultly should come from having to figure out the strategy, never for how much damage a enemy can take.
Because of this I find games like Assassins Creed more tactical than Dragon Age.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:27 .

[KDD-0063]

Maverick827 wrote...

It's amazing how, after so long, people are still falsely saying that DAO was more difficult/more tactical than DA2.  DA2's nightmare mode was brutal by comparison to DAO's nightmare.

In this case, DAO's combat system is not to blame.
If you look at how DAO's NM is specified, DAO's NM is only around 10% more difficult than DAO's hard, which is about 10% more difficult than normal.
If anything, this means that they need to fix DAO's difficulty curve, because the difference between normal and harder modes is too little.

Does that mean the overly actiony gameplay makes the DA2's nightmare harder? I doubt that.

Specific problem needs specific solutions.
Problem with difficulty curve, encounter and boss mechanics and etc need to be discussed specifically instead of in general. These are the fields in which DA2 is superior (as expected as a sequel).

However, so far, I have not seen the some mechanics in DA2 that many DAO fans complain about, such as hack-a-slash based combat, wave mechanics and the removal of the tactical camera solve anything.

[hexaligned]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I never found neither Dragon Age game hard on Nightmare, just long and repetitive.
I believe that once a strategy to beat a enemy is found, the enemy should die quickly, regardless of difficultly level.
The actual difficultly should come from having to figure out the strategy, never for how much damage a enemy can take.
Because of this I find games like Assassins Creed more tactical than Dragon Age.

I at least died once in awhile in DA2 on nightmare, that just didn't happen in DAO, literaly.  Granted it was because of some cheesy/cheaty mechanics, but I'd rather have an AI that cheats once in awhile to kill me, than one that isn't capable of doing it at all.

[Khayness]

DA:O's encounter design and enemy variety (could still use more) mixed with DA2's skill system plz.

[dheer]

Khayness wrote...
DA:O's encounter design and enemy variety (could still use more) mixed with DA2's skill system plz.

Add an execution style animation for the last enemy left at the end of the current fight and I think that would be a solid foundation to build on.

Modifié par dheer, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .