223 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The oversized weapons, cartoonish attacks, elves looking like they are copied and pasted out of "pokemon". Button mashing like there is no tomorrow. Blood and bodyparts all over. Enemies just spawning all over.

Thats where it comes from.

You just decribed 90% of fantasy materials and legends.

... no. 90% of fantasy doesn't have elves. Most fantasy doesn't have button mashing because, you know, books, oral storytelling, and movies lack buttons. Likewise, enemies do not 'spawn all over' in most fantasy stories.

Oversized weapons,unrealistic attacks and excessive gore are pretty much staples of fantasy  You'll notice I adressed the elves and mashing comments by themselves.

Well, I listed up about 50 games that don`t have any of that. I could do a list of famous fantasy books for you too, if that would convince you.

Just 50? Thanks for agreeing with me and I really find that hard to believe that none of those games feature top tier epic weapons at all. And I'm sure for everyone there is a Conan or a Stormbringer

Some of them have epic weapons, sure. But that doesn`t equal having 3 meter long blades that weigh nothing at all. The weapons still look like belivable weapons. That was kind of the point. The look of the weapon, not the amount of damage it does...

Never seen a weapon named Conan, though.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
The combat itself looked more belivable in DA:O. Allthough some ofthe abilities certainly didn`t. And I listed up games that don`t have cartoony action and oversized weapons, for the other fellow.  He said 90 percent of fantasy had that. I just pointed out  that "most" fantasy games don`t have that at all.

As for realistic medieval combat...No idea. Game of Thrones has combat that looks rather belivable. The Braveheart movie kind of had the same stuff too.

No, I'm afraid Game of Thrones is also completely bunk. It's "believable" because it's in line with what movies and tv have been showing us for decades, but what they've been showing us isn't accurate and never has been.

Most of this article deals with guns, but check out entry number four: http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html.

I did see your list, and all I have to say is that it would be pretty tricky to show 'oversized' anything when you're working with the limited graphical capabilities that most of those games had to make do with.

They use Pirates of the Caribbean + Kill Bill as examples... Still. I get the point. But in GoT, they do (for the most part) make a point of stabbing someone in places where there are no armour. I`ve seen armour block swordstrikes plenty in GoT.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
The combat itself looked more belivable in DA:O. Allthough some ofthe abilities certainly didn`t. And I listed up games that don`t have cartoony action and oversized weapons, for the other fellow.  He said 90 percent of fantasy had that. I just pointed out  that "most" fantasy games don`t have that at all.

As for realistic medieval combat...No idea. Game of Thrones has combat that looks rather belivable. The Braveheart movie kind of had the same stuff too.

No, I'm afraid Game of Thrones is also completely bunk. It's "believable" because it's in line with what movies and tv have been showing us for decades, but what they've been showing us isn't accurate and never has been.

Most of this article deals with guns, but check out entry number four: http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html.

I did see your list, and all I have to say is that it would be pretty tricky to show 'oversized' anything when you're working with the limited graphical capabilities that most of those games had to make do with.

They use Pirates of the Caribbean + Kill Bill as examples... Still. I get the point. But in GoT, they do (for the most part) make a point of stabbing someone in places where there are no armour. I`ve seen armour block swordstrikes plenty in GoT.

Sure, but I was mostly talking in terms of all the sword-on-sword contact which, as the article states, would, in real life, blunt or break the blade very quickly.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
The combat itself looked more belivable in DA:O. Allthough some ofthe abilities certainly didn`t. And I listed up games that don`t have cartoony action and oversized weapons, for the other fellow.  He said 90 percent of fantasy had that. I just pointed out  that "most" fantasy games don`t have that at all.

As for realistic medieval combat...No idea. Game of Thrones has combat that looks rather belivable. The Braveheart movie kind of had the same stuff too.

No, I'm afraid Game of Thrones is also completely bunk. It's "believable" because it's in line with what movies and tv have been showing us for decades, but what they've been showing us isn't accurate and never has been.

Most of this article deals with guns, but check out entry number four: http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html.

I did see your list, and all I have to say is that it would be pretty tricky to show 'oversized' anything when you're working with the limited graphical capabilities that most of those games had to make do with.

They use Pirates of the Caribbean + Kill Bill as examples... Still. I get the point. But in GoT, they do (for the most part) make a point of stabbing someone in places where there are no armour. I`ve seen armour block swordstrikes plenty in GoT.

Sure, but I was mostly talking in terms of all the sword-on-sword contact which, as the article states, would, in real life, blunt or break the blade very quickly.

Quite true. BUT the DA games don`t have sword vs sword animations

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The oversized weapons, cartoonish attacks, elves looking like they are copied and pasted out of "pokemon". Button mashing like there is no tomorrow. Blood and bodyparts all over. Enemies just spawning all over.

Thats where it comes from.

You just decribed 90% of fantasy materials and legends.

... no. 90% of fantasy doesn't have elves. Most fantasy doesn't have button mashing because, you know, books, oral storytelling, and movies lack buttons. Likewise, enemies do not 'spawn all over' in most fantasy stories.

Oversized weapons,unrealistic attacks and excessive gore are pretty much staples of fantasy  You'll notice I adressed the elves and mashing comments by themselves.

Well, I listed up about 50 games that don`t have any of that. I could do a list of famous fantasy books for you too, if that would convince you.

Just 50? Thanks for agreeing with me and I really find that hard to believe that none of those games feature top tier epic weapons at all. And I'm sure for everyone there is a Conan or a Stormbringer

Some of them have epic weapons, sure. But that doesn`t equal having 3 meter long blades that weigh nothing at all. The weapons still look like belivable weapons. That was kind of the point. The look of the weapon, not the amount of damage it does...

Never seen a weapon named Conan, though.

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
The combat itself looked more belivable in DA:O. Allthough some ofthe abilities certainly didn`t. And I listed up games that don`t have cartoony action and oversized weapons, for the other fellow.  He said 90 percent of fantasy had that. I just pointed out  that "most" fantasy games don`t have that at all.

As for realistic medieval combat...No idea. Game of Thrones has combat that looks rather belivable. The Braveheart movie kind of had the same stuff too.

No, I'm afraid Game of Thrones is also completely bunk. It's "believable" because it's in line with what movies and tv have been showing us for decades, but what they've been showing us isn't accurate and never has been.

Most of this article deals with guns, but check out entry number four: http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html.

I did see your list, and all I have to say is that it would be pretty tricky to show 'oversized' anything when you're working with the limited graphical capabilities that most of those games had to make do with.

They use Pirates of the Caribbean + Kill Bill as examples... Still. I get the point. But in GoT, they do (for the most part) make a point of stabbing someone in places where there are no armour. I`ve seen armour block swordstrikes plenty in GoT.

Sure, but I was mostly talking in terms of all the sword-on-sword contact which, as the article states, would, in real life, blunt or break the blade very quickly.

Quite true. BUT the DA games don`t have sword vs sword animations

No they just have you using the sword like a club.

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The oversized weapons, cartoonish attacks, elves looking like they are copied and pasted out of "pokemon". Button mashing like there is no tomorrow. Blood and bodyparts all over. Enemies just spawning all over.

Thats where it comes from.

You just decribed 90% of fantasy materials and legends.

... no. 90% of fantasy doesn't have elves. Most fantasy doesn't have button mashing because, you know, books, oral storytelling, and movies lack buttons. Likewise, enemies do not 'spawn all over' in most fantasy stories.

Oversized weapons,unrealistic attacks and excessive gore are pretty much staples of fantasy  You'll notice I adressed the elves and mashing comments by themselves.

Well, I listed up about 50 games that don`t have any of that. I could do a list of famous fantasy books for you too, if that would convince you.

Just 50? Thanks for agreeing with me and I really find that hard to believe that none of those games feature top tier epic weapons at all. And I'm sure for everyone there is a Conan or a Stormbringer

Some of them have epic weapons, sure. But that doesn`t equal having 3 meter long blades that weigh nothing at all. The weapons still look like belivable weapons. That was kind of the point. The look of the weapon, not the amount of damage it does...

Never seen a weapon named Conan, though.

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The oversized weapons, cartoonish attacks, elves looking like they are copied and pasted out of "pokemon". Button mashing like there is no tomorrow. Blood and bodyparts all over. Enemies just spawning all over.

Thats where it comes from.

You just decribed 90% of fantasy materials and legends.

... no. 90% of fantasy doesn't have elves. Most fantasy doesn't have button mashing because, you know, books, oral storytelling, and movies lack buttons. Likewise, enemies do not 'spawn all over' in most fantasy stories.

Oversized weapons,unrealistic attacks and excessive gore are pretty much staples of fantasy  You'll notice I adressed the elves and mashing comments by themselves.

Well, I listed up about 50 games that don`t have any of that. I could do a list of famous fantasy books for you too, if that would convince you.

Just 50? Thanks for agreeing with me and I really find that hard to believe that none of those games feature top tier epic weapons at all. And I'm sure for everyone there is a Conan or a Stormbringer

Some of them have epic weapons, sure. But that doesn`t equal having 3 meter long blades that weigh nothing at all. The weapons still look like belivable weapons. That was kind of the point. The look of the weapon, not the amount of damage it does...

Never seen a weapon named Conan, though.

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

the Elder Scrolls sure as hell does.*Daedric,Silver,Dwarven,Orcish and glass weapons*

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The oversized weapons, cartoonish attacks, elves looking like they are copied and pasted out of "pokemon". Button mashing like there is no tomorrow. Blood and bodyparts all over. Enemies just spawning all over.

Thats where it comes from.

You just decribed 90% of fantasy materials and legends.

... no. 90% of fantasy doesn't have elves. Most fantasy doesn't have button mashing because, you know, books, oral storytelling, and movies lack buttons. Likewise, enemies do not 'spawn all over' in most fantasy stories.

Oversized weapons,unrealistic attacks and excessive gore are pretty much staples of fantasy  You'll notice I adressed the elves and mashing comments by themselves.

Well, I listed up about 50 games that don`t have any of that. I could do a list of famous fantasy books for you too, if that would convince you.

Just 50? Thanks for agreeing with me and I really find that hard to believe that none of those games feature top tier epic weapons at all. And I'm sure for everyone there is a Conan or a Stormbringer

Some of them have epic weapons, sure. But that doesn`t equal having 3 meter long blades that weigh nothing at all. The weapons still look like belivable weapons. That was kind of the point. The look of the weapon, not the amount of damage it does...

Never seen a weapon named Conan, though.

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

the Elder Scrolls sure as hell does.*Daedric,Silver,Dwarven,Orcish and glass weapons*

I will give you half a point for those. Some of those are just made from "better material". But i will give you that one.

in ultima 7, for example, the best weapon was something called The Hoe of Destruction (not to be confused with Paris Hilton). It was just a regular hoe, with demonic energy in it. Wasn`t 10 foot long or covered i jewells and whatsnot. None of the BG weapons looked off either. Nor anything in the other games i listed up.

[hoorayforicecream]

Rawgrim wrote...

in ultima 7, for example, the best weapon was something called The Hoe of Destruction (not to be confused with Paris Hilton). It was just a regular hoe, with demonic energy in it. Wasn`t 10 foot long or covered i jewells and whatsnot. None of the BG weapons looked off either. Nor anything in the other games i listed up.

The best weapon in Ultima 7 was the Black Sword. It had a demon stuck in it that you could call on to one-shot any foe you wanted, including Lord British. It was made of blackrock, was oversized, and had a glowy gem in the hilt.



That said, please cut out the quote pyramids. It's incredibly hard to read.

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

What about the Moonblade, Ras, Namarra the Answerer +4 in Baldur's Gate I & II. The hilts have gems and jewels embedded in them.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:49 .

[Shadow Fox]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

in ultima 7, for example, the best weapon was something called The Hoe of Destruction (not to be confused with Paris Hilton). It was just a regular hoe, with demonic energy in it. Wasn`t 10 foot long or covered i jewells and whatsnot. None of the BG weapons looked off either. Nor anything in the other games i listed up.

The best weapon in Ultima 7 was the Black Sword. It had a demon stuck in it that you could call on to one-shot any foe you wanted, including Lord British. It was made of blackrock, was oversized, and had a glowy gem in the hilt.



That said, please cut out the quote pyramids. It's incredibly hard to read.

Sorry will do

[Rawgrim]

[/quote]

The best weapon in Ultima 7 was the Black Sword. It had a demon stuck in it that you could call on to one-shot any foe you wanted, including Lord British. It was made of blackrock, was oversized, and had a glowy gem in the hilt.



That said, please cut out the quote pyramids. It's incredibly hard to read.

[/quote]

Looks pretty standard for a 2 handed weapon. Not oversized. You also get it in the expansion, not in Ultima 7 itself The gem was there for a reason, though. Not just to look flashy. If I remember correctly there was an entity in that gem?

[Rawgrim]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

What about the Moonblade, Ras, Namarra the Answerer +4 in Baldur's Gate I & II. The hilts have gems and jewels embedded in them.

Gems yes. But they don`t look oversized or cartoony. The DA2 weapons looks more like something from Soul Calibur. The BG swords looks about the same size as the regular ones. And people don`t jump 50 feet through the air while wielding one, or cutting 5 people in half with one sweep, after skateboarding across the battlefield. Thats cartoony.

[hoorayforicecream]

Rawgrim wrote...

The best weapon in Ultima 7 was the Black Sword. It had a demon stuck in it that you could call on to one-shot any foe you wanted, including Lord British. It was made of blackrock, was oversized, and had a glowy gem in the hilt.



That said, please cut out the quote pyramids. It's incredibly hard to read.

Looks pretty standard for a 2 handed weapon. Not oversized. You also get it in the expansion, not in Ultima 7 itself The gem was there for a reason, though. Not just to look flashy. If I remember correctly there was an entity in that gem?

Nah, in the actual game it was much wider than a standard 2-handed sword. You can see it here:



Compare it to the normal 2-handed sword in the avatar's hands here:



The black sword is noticeably bigger than the 2-handed sword. Besides, the glass sword was also better than the hoe of destruction in U7.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 20 octobre 2012 - 01:00 .

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

What about the Moonblade, Ras, Namarra the Answerer +4 in Baldur's Gate I & II. The hilts have gems and jewels embedded in them.

Gems yes. But they don`t look oversized or cartoony. The DA2 weapons looks more like something from Soul Calibur. The BG swords looks about the same size as the regular ones. And people don`t jump 50 feet through the air while wielding one, or cutting 5 people in half with one sweep, after skateboarding across the battlefield. Thats cartoony.

The swords in DA2 are the same length as DAO and some have the same width like in The Mother's Chosen.  Skateboarding and hitting several enemies like Onslaught, Sweeping Strike or Reaving Storm

[Rawgrim]

Nah, in the actual game it was much wider than a standard 2-handed sword. You can see it here:



Compare it to the normal 2-handed sword in the avatar's hands here:



The black sword is noticeably bigger than the 2-handed sword. Besides, the glass sword was also better than the hoe of destruction in U7.[/quote]

I`d say that is slightly wider, not alot wider.

And yes. Glass swords were the best ones, but they broke after a few swings. Still its nowhere near looking as oversized as the weapons in DA2. Not by a long shot.

[Rawgrim]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

A weapon coated in gems &siver and gold with jagged curvy blades looks belivable?

No they don`t. And none of these games have that, so i don`t get your point.

What about the Moonblade, Ras, Namarra the Answerer +4 in Baldur's Gate I & II. The hilts have gems and jewels embedded in them.

Gems yes. But they don`t look oversized or cartoony. The DA2 weapons looks more like something from Soul Calibur. The BG swords looks about the same size as the regular ones. And people don`t jump 50 feet through the air while wielding one, or cutting 5 people in half with one sweep, after skateboarding across the battlefield. Thats cartoony.

The swords in DA2 are the same length as DAO and some have the same width like in The Mother's Chosen.  Skateboarding and hitting several enemies like Onslaught, Sweeping Strike or Reaving Storm

http://i14.photobuck...xZweihander.png


Really?

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...


http://i14.photobuck...xZweihander.png


Really?

Exactly, as I have stated before the silliness did not begin with DA2. So I do not blame just DA2 for it and give DAO and DAA a pass. All the weapons in DA2 were not oversized. It is fantasy.

As I asked before in other threads How much realism do you want in your fantasy?. What is acceptable for some is unacceptable for others.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 20 octobre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Rawgrim]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


http://i14.photobuck...xZweihander.png


Really?

Exactly, as I have stated before the silliness did not begin with DA2. So I do not blame just DA2 for it and give DAO and DAA a pass. All the weapons in DA2 were not oversized. It is fantasy.

As I asked before in other threads How much realism do you want in your fantasy?. What is acceptable for some it unacceptable for others.

that pic was from DA2, by the way.

The realism should stick with the realism introduced in the first game. Pretty much a golden rule. If we are told\\shown that nobody can use magic except for mages, switching from that in game 2 ruins the "realmism" especially if there is no explanation for it. Talis leaping 50 feet backwards through the air, and landing on a ledge 20 feet up from a stand still position, breaks the "realism" in the game. Just an example. Rogues having 50 000 smokebombs, firing 5 arrows up into the ceilling, and 200 of them raining down (done by a rogue not a mage) also breaks the realism. Allthough that one got introduced in Awakening.  When you set the groundrules in game 1, don`t change it later. Thats what i am getting at. Its like the hobbits learning how to fly at the end of Return of a King.

[Hurbster]

I would greatly prefer the combat system of DA:O.

[FieryDove]

Hurbster wrote...

I would greatly prefer the combat system of DA:O.

^this plus the tac cam back.

(But I did like some things in da2 combatwise, archers for example moar funz!)

[Direwolf0294]

DA:O didn't have isometric combat, I played the entire game over the shoulder. DA:O had slow, psuedo turn based MMO combat. I found it really, really boring. I much prefered DA2's combat. The wave stuff sucked, but the combat itself was all right. Would have been better if the abilities hadn't been on such long cooldowns and if resources had of regenerated faster though.

[Rawgrim]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

DA:O didn't have isometric combat, I played the entire game over the shoulder. DA:O had slow, psuedo turn based MMO combat. I found it really, really boring. I much prefered DA2's combat. The wave stuff sucked, but the combat itself was all right. Would have been better if the abilities hadn't been on such long cooldowns and if resources had of regenerated faster though.

DA:O had isometric combat on the PC version.

[Ianamus]

You can't directly compare the sales of the games to the combat. I loved Origins, but I'd be the first to admit that the combat is awful. Honestly, while I love origins it had some of the slowest and often dull combat I'd ever played in a game. I loved the characters, world and plot though, so it didn't really matter overall.

I'm not saying Dragon Age 2 was a colossal improvement, but I personally found it much more playable. I didn't like the waves of enemies or having a large number of ridiculously low health "canon fodder" enemies, but I liked the faster pace, cross class combo's and much more interesting ability trees.

I honestly will never under the fuss about "isometric" combat. I always assumed that the reason all combat was 2D-ish in older games was because it was trying to imitate tabletop games and because of the limitations of the technology then, I don't see why people would want that in modern games.