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[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
The point is that she doesn't bat an eye when killing people, on Mars she kills two Cerberus soldiers that have been chasing her almost nonchalantly, show her a banshee and she wets her suit

Two humans trying to kill you is not the same as seeing one of your race being turned into a mindless monster.

. Rila, the ardat-yakshi is willing o blow the banshees to hell, she is not scared and she isn't even experienced in any form of combat

Rila was already dead, she decided to make her death worth it, her sister however had to be restrained.Also you act like Liara goes in a ball and does nothing, she does not. She continues to fight.

. After Thessia she was on her bed sobbing Bout not being able to do anything.  After she yells at Javik for telling her the truth

And what does she do after that? She goes right back to work to help the asari and combat ready. What squadmates do on their own time after a mission is not for you say if it does not hurt the war effort. Her having alone time is not hurting the war effort right now, let's also not forget Garrus wanted to be laone for awhile in the gun room, he says this right to Liara. Kaidan is always worried about his father. Sure they don't cry but they are not robots.

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...
Not on the edge, alright.
But losing Thessia is just like bashing a bat into the facade of their civilization during a Reaper invasion.
It's, ironically (heh me and IT...) the 'wake up call' for not just the Asari, but Liara, on just how VERY serious and dreadful all of this war is.
When Thessia gets attacked and falls, it shows that only the Citadel is left to hold any semblence of 'peaceful' civilization.

And then the Citadel gets moved so the galaxy is boned. Now or never.

. Liara and the Asari only start to care when they are in danger.  Then they tell you about the Prothean artifact that they know is very important but have kept hidden.  The war was plenty bad before Thessia

[Steelcan]

[quote]Mr.House wrote...

[/quote]And what does she do after that? She goes right back to work to help the asari and combat ready. What squadmates do on their own time after a mission is not for you say if it does not hurt the war effort. Her having alone time is not hurting the war effort right now, let's also not forget Garrus wanted to be laone for awhile in the gun room, he says this right to Liara. Kaidan is always worried about his father. Sure they don't cry but they are not robots.
[/quote]. I left her in her room sobbing into her bed, whining about she is so helpless, she never got up or anything. Yes Garrus is upset, but he doesn't become catatonic over it

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
The point is that she doesn't bat an eye when killing people, on Mars she kills two Cerberus soldiers that have been chasing her almost nonchalantly, show her a banshee and she wets her suit

Two humans trying to kill you is not the same as seeing one of your race being turned into a mindless monster.

. Rila, the ardat-yakshi is willing o blow the banshees to hell, she is not scared and she isn't even experienced in any form of combat

I don't think its truly just seeing the banshees. It's seeing the banshees in the place she grew up as a small child, also the place which was always seen as a bastion of peace in her mind.
So yeah, she obviously wasn't totally ruined by seeing this, but of course it could wreck her emotionally.

. Liara in ME3 seemed to me to be cold and distant.... Until her own planet got attacked, then she doesn't give a damn about anybody else's problems with their home worlds.

[MACharlie1]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
The point is that she doesn't bat an eye when killing people, on Mars she kills two Cerberus soldiers that have been chasing her almost nonchalantly, show her a banshee and she wets her suit

Two humans trying to kill you is not the same as seeing one of your race being turned into a mindless monster.

. Rila, the ardat-yakshi is willing o blow the banshees to hell, she is not scared and she isn't even experienced in any form of combat

Rila was already dead, she decided to make her death worth it, her sister however had to be restrained.Also you act like Liara goes in a ball and does nothing, she does not. She continues to fight.

. After Thessia she was on her bed sobbing Bout not being able to do anything.  After she yells at Javik for telling her the truth

And what does she do after that? She goes right back to work to help the asari and combat ready. What squadmates do on their own time after a mission is not for you say if it does not hurt the war effort. Her having alone time is not hurting the war effort right now, let's also not forget Garrus wanted to be laone for awhile in the gun room, he says this right to Liara. Kaidan is always worried about his father. Sure they don't cry but they are not robots.

Only if Shepard does a paragon interupt when shes crying. Otherwise, she passes out on the bed. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

We're not attacking the Asari as a species here.

Yes you are. By proxy, possibly, but you are.

The fault lies with the Asari government, and we're putting the blame squarely where it belongs. They kept it hidden to maintain their edge over the other races, and outlawed the practice for everyone else. They were driven by a jealous desire to stay on top, and their planet burned for it. Why are you so dead-set on defending them?

Because there's no way they could have gotten coherent information out of it; the asari could never have advanced because of that beacon (and plainly had no idea what was on it). And Tevos wasn't in charge of this affair.

Xil, you're letting your bias get in the way of the narrative.

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

[Steelcan]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Javik is a bastard. As for everyone else, that's not annoyance. They're trying to keep her mind on the objective so she can stay alive. They understand, and they care.

And you shouldn't be given that option, because no one would ever say something like that in a situation like this. Ever.

Billions of people are dying in just a few hours. I don't think you fully understand how huge that is. Asari are the pinnacle of the galaxy. They're the most advanced, and they have the most power. Regardless of that fact, their home planet just got swatted like a fly.

That's a big deal. Especially for a scientist in her (by Asari standards) mid-20's. Shepard has nightmares every night because of what he saw on Earth, and he's been through some crazy things in the past. How do you think she would feel? Living her entire life sheltered in ruins, with her nose in a book, and suddenly, the galaxy is ending.

. There is a difference between being a bastard and watching EVERYTHING you ever knew being destroyed.  He is pragmatic to the point of being an ass, but he knows what must be done to stop the reapers.  As for Liara not being ready for it? She was ready to fight Saren, ready to kill and become the shadow broker, ready to do anything to stop the reapers, until they attack Thessia.

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

EDI also compares armor-piercing rounds with biological weapons.

Suffice to say, EDI in ME3 is less than a perfect analyst.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

EDI also compares armor-piercing rounds with biological weapons.

Suffice to say, EDI in ME3 is less than a perfect analyst.

When did EDI do that exactly?

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...



The general view of whatever Shepard you play as is that once he's decided to keep a henchman with him (so I'm not counting things like giving Legion to Cerberus), they're his 'friend' in some form or another.

So telling her to 'suck it up' might be even be too Renegade for even Renegade Shepard. However, sure, maybe they should have given him an option to tell her to stay focused if it doesn't exist, but I don't remember the mission perfectly.

. Condemning an entire species to extinction wasn't too renegade for renegade Shepard(twice).  I think that genocide is not as bad as telling someone to stop whining 

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...

Liara always cared, we know that since ME1.

But yes, even Liara has the trait where 'something else' is more important than what the 'big fight is'.

ME1: Learning about Prothians
ME2: Revenge and saving Feron
ME3: Crucible plans and being Shadow Broker

There's always an element to the Asari, beyond even the other Council races, that they prefer to 'react' to a danger, but not *proactively pursue ending the danger*.
Liara is one of the better ones, which she might get from her dad , but she also got the other stuff from her mom, who.. ended up indoctrinated.

. She doesn't seem to care that every other squad member has been forced to kill reaperized versions of themselves (except Tali). But they do not have fits about it, it's what must be done

[Xilizhra]

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...

Now here's where I disagree again lol

She's busy co-ordinating her part of the war effort.

Just like in ME1 she was busy obsessed with the Prothians, in ME2 she's obsessed with getting work done.

You know, to save the galaxy. Not just the Asari.

. In ME2 she was focused on getting revenge nothing more

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

. Maybe just maybe Vendetta wasn't the only thing in there.  It is possible that only Protheans could get Vendetta to come out. Because of the cipher Shepard appears as Prothean

[Dean_the_Young]

Lizardviking wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

EDI also compares armor-piercing rounds with biological weapons.

Suffice to say, EDI in ME3 is less than a perfect analyst.

When did EDI do that exactly?

If you take EDI on the Geth Dreadnaught, when you pick up Xen's weapon.

[Steelcan]

Logan Cloud wrote...

And Liara is watching everything she knows being destroyed, just like Javik did. Only difference is, Liara is a civilian. She's still very young. She wasn't born during the Reaper war. etc.

She was never cold and heartless. There's a massive difference between killing soldiers trying to blow your head off, and killing civilians that were brutally transformed into abominations. The sheer amount of pressure that would put on someone's psyche is baffling.

Not to mention the fact that no matter what happened with the Reapers or Saren and the Geth before, it's NOTHING compared to this. For instance, the pinnacle of galactic power wasn't being destroyed in a matter of hours.

I don't pretend to know a lot about a person's psyche during war, but no war in history has ever been on this scale. Veterans from real wars have been emotionally scarred to the point where they can barely get through the day. If anything, Liara's one of the toughest people in the galaxy to be able to stay composed for as long as she did.

. She had no qualms about killing people, even her own mother.  Only when the banshees come is she distraught.  And Liara has changed from ME she is no longer the innocent little scientist. She is now one of the most dangerous people in the galaxy.