475 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it?

For the same reasons that Prothean Beacons were known in the galaxy before Eden Prime as technological treasure troves, and yet no one took in the vision.

Or, in more real world terms, for similar reasons as to why you can study computer code without running it as a computer program application.

Storage mediums can be accessed and studied in multiple ways, without giving the same effects or results.

It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all.

Before or after the Beacon thought a Prothean (ie, someone with a cypher) was in the vicinity?

Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

Grand. As the rest of the galaxy was contributing Prothean artifacts and entire amnestry drives were being done by the Council to encourage Prothean relics to be turned in just in case they might be possibly useful (according to the Codex, at least), perhaps it might have behooved the Asari government to follow that advice.

Instead of, you know, continuing to hide something they clearly thought was important enough to invest notable investments in keeping hidden, and only reveal it when their own planet faced immediate danger.

[Dean_the_Young]

Logan Cloud wrote...

And Liara is watching everything she knows being destroyed, just like Javik did. Only difference is, Liara is a civilian. She's still very young. She wasn't born during the Reaper war. etc.

She was never cold and heartless. There's a massive difference between killing soldiers trying to blow your head off, and killing civilians that were brutally transformed into abominations. The sheer amount of pressure that would put on someone's psyche is baffling.

Not to mention the fact that no matter what happened with the Reapers or Saren and the Geth before, it's NOTHING compared to this. For instance, the pinnacle of galactic power wasn't being destroyed in a matter of hours.

I don't pretend to know a lot about a person's psyche during war, but no war in history has ever been on this scale. Veterans from real wars have been emotionally scarred to the point where they can barely get through the day. If anything, Liara's one of the toughest people in the galaxy to be able to stay composed for as long as she did.

No, not really. Pretty much everyone in the cast caries on as well or better.

Nothing Liara sees on Thessia is new to her. Thessia is personal, not unique, but after monthes of witnessing others deal with the same thing lamenting on it as if it were uniuqe is not a credit to her character.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Mr.House wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I really liked the character in ME2 and at the start of ME3.

Liara's problem was that her character seemed to have had several people write her, and each had a different idea regarding dialogue, emotion, etc. I would have had her keep the LotSB personality during the war and what we saw on Mars. More focused and a hell of a lot less naive. But it was like she had multiple personalities.

WTF? Who is this person in this act? One time she's focused and ruthless. Another she's the ME1 Liara on Therum. I blame the writers. The writing was pretty bad. Her character deserved a lot better.

Hell, this entire game deserved a lot better writing.

Funny, I hated her in ME2 except for LOTSB and loved her in ME3 and I didn't see any issues except for her Citadel date if you are still loyal to her, osmething her writer has admitted. Hell of alot better then the crap the team pulled with her in base ME2.

To you and others... Liara in base ME2 was forgettable. I only really remember LotSB.

In honesty she was like 102 in ME1 and 106 in ME3, which by human standards is barely drinking age. She spent her maiden years in school and doing research, and not shaking her ass in a sleazy bar or running in a merc band. She's barely an adult. Time isn't as urgent for a long lived species like asari or krogan. They can take their time about things.

Shepard is an adult early - mid 30s. Been dead once. If Liara was human would be about 20-21... maybe. Barely legal. We have to keep reminding ourselves of that.

I think given that the average age of gamers they should seriously think about making characters a bit older these days. They should have made Liara about 200 and not so innocent so that the LotSB Liara wasn't just a one time thing. More of Shepard's contemporary by Asari age standards. But then you wouldn't have had the "vulnerable female I must protect" in the game. Of course there was the girl behind the mask (also very young ....)

EDIT: Garrus strikes me as a hardened vet. Wrex is battle hardened and getting up there. Wreav isn't young. Javik has only known war. James is an officer, and that would put him around 24-25. Kaiden a major so mid 30s or almost 40. Ashley now an officer, but was a gunnery chief, and given her family's history probably in her 30s, Spc Traynor hasn't seen battle early 20s fresh out of tech school. Steve looks around mid 30s. Anderson around late 40s. Tali is young. Miranda was always whining about her sister and her father. Jack was young and crazy. Zaeed just a hardened vet.

You see where I'm going? She's probably the youngest on a maturity scale in the group. They should have made the character older especially for a LI.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 19 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[David7204]

Here all we are, bickering to each other about how much we hate a character in a story.

And we're declaring that said character "lamenting" after seeing her planet overrun is unacceptable.

I hope I'm not the only one aware of the irony here.

Modifié par David7204, 19 octobre 2012 - 01:16 .

[Xilizhra]

For the same reasons that Prothean Beacons were known in the galaxy before Eden Prime as technological treasure troves, and yet no one took in the vision.

Anderson's dialogue in ME1 contradicts this, when he says that Eden Prime has "unearthed a beacon of some kind. It was Prothean." If these beacons had been used as treasure troves of information beforehand, he would have said something like "unearthed a Prothean beacon, like the one we found on Mars." The beacon, at the time, was new to the Alliance; we can hence infer that the Alliance did not use a similar one beforehand.

Before or after the Beacon thought a Prothean (ie, someone with a cypher) was in the vicinity?

After the statue the thing was sealed inside broke apart, which isn't the kind of mechanism one would use for a device one was regularly consulting. You'd need to keep building new statues over it.

Grand. As the rest of the galaxy was contributing Prothean artifacts and entire amnestry drives were being done by the Council to encourage Prothean relics to be turned in just in case they might be possibly useful (according to the Codex, at least), perhaps it might have behooved the Asari government to follow that advice.

Instead of, you know, continuing to hide something they clearly thought was important enough to invest notable investments in keeping hidden, and only reveal it when their own planet faced immediate danger.

As you like. Enjoy blaming the tiny matriarchal clique who actually knew about the beacon in the first place, though odds are good that they're dead already, so it won't help much.

[d-boy15]

good old classic (and the fact) - she's a writers favorite.

annoying, whinning = they tried to make you feel sad for her

Modifié par d-boy15, 19 octobre 2012 - 01:18 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Here all we are, bickering to each other about how much we hate a character in a story.

And we're declaring that said character "lamenting" after seeing her planet overrun is unacceptable.

I hope I'm not the only one aware of the irony here.

. If you think it's pointless feel free to leave

[David7204]

So I'm not the only one aware of the irony?

[BP93]

Preachin' to the choir, OP.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

So I'm not the only one aware of the irony?

. No you are not, but unless you are going to add to this ......debate just stay quiet

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

For the same reasons that Prothean Beacons were known in the galaxy before Eden Prime as technological treasure troves, and yet no one took in the vision.

Anderson's dialogue in ME1 contradicts this, when he says that Eden Prime has "unearthed a beacon of some kind. It was Prothean." If these beacons had been used as treasure troves of information beforehand, he would have said something like "unearthed a Prothean beacon, like the one we found on Mars." The beacon, at the time, was new to the Alliance; we can hence infer that the Alliance did not use a similar one beforehand.

The Alliance, no. The Council? The reason the Eden Prime mission even occurs is because the Council has the ability (which the Alliance lacks, according to Anderson) to access such technology.

Before or after the Beacon thought a Prothean (ie, someone with a cypher) was in the vicinity?

After the statue the thing was sealed inside broke apart, which isn't the kind of mechanism one would use for a device one was regularly consulting. You'd need to keep building new statues over it.

The Asari are rich. They can afford it.

Moreover, this doesn't change that the Beacon only resonatted and put out the helpful VI after the proximity of a Cypher-individual.

Grand. As the rest of the galaxy was contributing Prothean artifacts and entire amnestry drives were being done by the Council to encourage Prothean relics to be turned in just in case they might be possibly useful (according to the Codex, at least), perhaps it might have behooved the Asari government to follow that advice.

Instead of, you know, continuing to hide something they clearly thought was important enough to invest notable investments in keeping hidden, and only reveal it when their own planet faced immediate danger.

As you like. Enjoy blaming the tiny matriarchal clique who actually knew about the beacon in the first place, though odds are good that they're dead already, so it won't help much.

Where have I blamed anyone else for the massive, self-destructive hypocrisy of the Asari government?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 19 octobre 2012 - 01:24 .

[Dean_the_Young]

David7204 wrote...

Here all we are, bickering to each other about how much we hate a character in a story.

And we're declaring that said character "lamenting" after seeing her planet overrun is unacceptable.

I hope I'm not the only one aware of the irony here.

Possibly, because that isn't proper use of irony. Or an accurate representation of any of the positions being developed here.

[Xilizhra]

The Alliance, no. The Council? The reason the Eden Prime mission even occurs is because the Council has the ability (which the Alliance lacks) to access such technology.

But the Alliance didn't seem to know about any beacons, and were giving it to the Council in the hopes that they might be able to study it, not that they knew the Council could translate it.

The Asari are rich. They can afford it.

How exactly are you going to hide needing to constantly rebuild the ancient statue in the Temple of Athame if you need to destroy it every time you want to consult the beacon? Moreover, how would the government keep this secret if they kept leaking technology ideas to the rest of the asari? It's hideously impractical, and I seriously doubt the asari got any knowledge from the beacon at all.

Where have I blamed anyone else for the massive, self-destructive hypocrisy of the Asari government?

Many try to blame the entire species, or call it unworthy somehow.

[HTTP 404]

I guess I would get irritated by what characters say if I replayed a game a million times.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Alliance, no. The Council? The reason the Eden Prime mission even occurs is because the Council has the ability (which the Alliance lacks) to access such technology.

But the Alliance didn't seem to know about any beacons, and were giving it to the Council in the hopes that they might be able to study it, not that they knew the Council could translate it.

The Asari are rich. They can afford it

How exactly are you going to hide needing to constantly rebuild the ancient statue in the Temple of Athame if you need to destroy it every time you want to consult the beacon? Moreover, how would the government keep this secret if they kept leaking technology ideas to the rest of the asari? It's hideously impractical, and I seriously doubt the asari got any knowledge from the beacon at all.

Where have I blamed anyone else for the massive, self-destructive hypocrisy of the Asari government?

Many try to blame the entire species, or call it unworthy somehow.

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

[Steelcan]

Now that everyone seems to have calmed down about Liara.....

[Xilizhra]

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

We got a clear view of what was under the floor. Don't ask me why it's a black void, but that's what's there.

[Cobretti ftw]

HOnestly.. liara was one of my favorite chars. Until ME3.

Now i cant stand that ****.. she is SOO annoying, and im obligated to carry her arround.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

We got a clear view of what was under the floor. Don't ask me why it's a black void, but that's what's there.

. Lights are turned off, and the clear view was a bunch more beacons.  They could have been carted off for study

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

We got a clear view of what was under the floor. Don't ask me why it's a black void, but that's what's there.

. Lights are turned off, and the clear view was a bunch more beacons.  They could have been carted off for study

Why would they cart the beacons out of the secret temple fortress if they were hiding them there in the first place?

[Steelcan]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

HOnestly.. liara was one of my favorite chars. Until ME3.

Now i cant stand that ****.. she is SOO annoying, and im obligated to carry her arround.

. My feelings exactly:D

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

We got a clear view of what was under the floor. Don't ask me why it's a black void, but that's what's there.

. Lights are turned off, and the clear view was a bunch more beacons.  They could have been carted off for study

Why would they cart the beacons out of the secret temple fortress if they were hiding them there in the first place?

. Hide and store them there, then when they are going to be examined move them to a more secure facility

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

. It is possible that temple has other levels to it that could be used underground for studying

We got a clear view of what was under the floor. Don't ask me why it's a black void, but that's what's there.

. Lights are turned off, and the clear view was a bunch more beacons.  They could have been carted off for study

Why would they cart the beacons out of the secret temple fortress if they were hiding them there in the first place?

. Hide and store them there, then when they are going to be examined move them to a more secure facility

You're reaching to incredible lengths to find a conspiracy here. I'm not sure why.

[SNascimento]

SwobyJ wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Liara caring about Thessia is not a problem. It's a problem how suddenly everyone has to comfort her and how big of a deal Bioware made it compared to everyone else. NO ONE is comforting Ash/Kaidan/Vega/Steve/Sam/Joker about Earth, constantly talking how sad it is etc. Few people make a short "I'm sorry about Earth Shep" and that's it. That's why it feels so forced, especially Shepard's railroaded flip out at Joker.

To me isn't because Thessia is more or less regarded the terrestrial capital of the galaxy. It's where all the (non-Citadel) centers of culture and government are, overall.

The loss of Earth means the Reapers are serious and in everyones' faces.
The loss the Palaven would mean the war is damaged hugely and may not ever be able to turn onto the organics' side.

But the loss of Thessia.. that's a bit of the soul (for better or worse) of the galaxy estinguished. There's a reason why Shepard begins to falter here (whether in a literal or IT view of the story).

Lose Thessia (and they did), and it becomes a lot less of a war, and more of a desperate struggle.

.
What? This makes no sense. At all. Thessia is no Rome. It might be the richest planet in the galaxy, but the center of the galaxy government is the Citadel.

Thessia isn't Rome....

But it is Athens.


BTW I said TERRESTRIAL. *Terrestrial* capital.
While it semi-shares this role with the other capital planets, Thessia is the highest 'ranked' one.

So its not like the galaxy lost all its leadership, but it did likely lose a ton of its morale.

.
But from where you took this idea of Thessia beingso important? Economically, yes, because of its vast deposits of element zero, but besides that, it's no more important to the galaxy than say, Sur'kesh. They are the top tier planets, but I don't see Thessia being the #1. 
.
And as far as morale goes, losing Palaven hit the galaxy much harder. I mean, it's the capital of the Turians, the greatest fighting force in the galaxy. There is a reason the reapers went there first and only hit Thessia latter. 

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...
You're reaching to incredible lengths to find a conspiracy here. I'm not sure why.

. In case you forgot it is a conspiracy.  Secret government funding, hidden artifacts, ancient astronauts, "hiding things for the greater good".  All it needs is Bigfoot.