475 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Alliance, no. The Council? The reason the Eden Prime mission even occurs is because the Council has the ability (which the Alliance lacks) to access such technology.

But the Alliance didn't seem to know about any beacons,

You're projecting again.

and were giving it to the Council in the hopes that they might be able to study it, not that they knew the Council could translate it.

And again here as well.

Besides the more nuanced context as to 'why' (Citadel legislation banning the hoarding of Prothean tech, quid-pro-quo for Alliance advancement, etc.), nothing in ME1 denies that information can be gotten out of beacons by means other than Cyphers (a requiste for your position), while ME3 establishes that data can be (a fatal flaw in your argument that the Beacons couldn't be accessed).

The Asari are rich. They can afford it.

How exactly are you going to hide needing to constantly rebuild the ancient statue in the Temple of Athame if you need to destroy it every time you want to consult the beacon?

By not doing it on a regular basis, which is already covered in the narrative of the scene.

Besides that, cover stories are easy: claim you're doing refurbishment, have a more controlled exposure system that would normally be used, shut down the temple during the rare access periods to block out witnesses, restrict the access of groups who could expose a fabricated old statue...

...or simply not claim it's an ancient statue all, and simply replace the statue with a new one on a regular basis. Where in the game is the statue claimed to be ancient?

Moreover, how would the government keep this secret if they kept leaking technology ideas to the rest of the asari?

By being more careful than you're admitting they could be, duh.

There is no constant stream of technology leaking. Nor is there any necessity of a Asari-wide distribution. The Asari government can leak the technologies selectively by the same means that government-sponsored industrial-espionage is filtered today: by hiding the actual source, controlling the timing, and making it appear to be a legitimate breakthrough.

It's hideously impractical, and I seriously doubt the asari got any knowledge from the beacon at all.

The Reaper genocide is also impracticle, but it's also true. You not liking something on principle isn't reason enough to reject it as true, especially when your basis of rejection rests upon rules youo've invented.

Where have I blamed anyone else for the massive, self-destructive hypocrisy of the Asari government?

Many try to blame the entire species, or call it unworthy somehow.

That's nice. Now, where have I blamed anyone else for the massive, self-destructive hypocrisy of the Asari government?

[Dean_the_Young]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
You're reaching to incredible lengths to find a conspiracy here. I'm not sure why.

. In case you forgot it is a conspiracy.  Secret government funding, hidden artifacts, ancient astronauts, "hiding things for the greater good".  All it needs is Bigfoot.

He is correct here, Xil. The Asari government has taken steps to disguise and hide the existence of a technology base it itself has designated an illegal resource to hoarde, and the justification for such when Shepard asks is that it has been kept secret in order to support an Asari-favored balance of power.

At this point, you will need a compelling case as to why the coverup is not a conspiracy.

[Steelcan]

SwobyJ wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...
Now here's where I disagree again lol
She's busy co-ordinating her part of the war effort.
Just like in ME1 she was busy obsessed with the Prothians, in ME2 she's obsessed with getting work done.
You know, to save the galaxy. Not just the Asari.

. In ME2 she was focused on getting revenge nothing more

Whoops sorry, I meant ME3!
Yeah in ME2 she was only focused on revenge and saving a friend. And getting info on/from Shadow Broker to help against fight against Reapers, as far secondary goal.

. Happens to all of us

If by "work" you mean a recently discovered deus ex machina. That she for some reason really wants to be used... She also flirts with Shepard at every conceivable opportunity.  

[Steelcan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
You're reaching to incredible lengths to find a conspiracy here. I'm not sure why.

. In case you forgot it is a conspiracy.  Secret government funding, hidden artifacts, ancient astronauts, "hiding things for the greater good".  All it needs is Bigfoot.

He is correct here, Xil. The Asari government has taken steps to disguise and hide the existence of a technology base it itself has designated an illegal resource to hoarde, and the justification for such when Shepard asks is that it has been kept secret in order to support an Asari-favored balance of power.

At this point, you will need a compelling case as to why the coverup is not a conspiracy.

. Hey what do you mean im correct HERE? That implies that I am wrong elsewhere.  

Just kidding:P

[robertthebard]

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

[Steelcan]

I only hear her getting reports from the rest of the galaxy. She's barely doing anything

[JBPBRC]

robertthebard wrote...

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

But...the Crucible isn't complete without the Catalyst...

[Bat32391]

Want a solution? Bring Javik.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know what's amazing, is that if Earth had discovered all this prothean tech first, I don't think Earth would have been sharing it freely with the rest of the galaxy. No. Earth would have used it to build an arsenal and built a galactic-wide empire similar to the protheans. Share freely isn't in our vocabulary. At least the asari aren't expansionist and warmongering. Come on, you guys know it's true.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

JBPBRC wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

But...the Crucible isn't complete without the Catalyst...

The real Catalyst was sitting right under Shepard's nose. Shepard looked at it every morning in the mirror.

[xMellowhype]

David7204 wrote...

Here all we are, bickering to each other about how much we hate a character in a story.

And we're declaring that said character "lamenting" after seeing her planet overrun is unacceptable.

I hope I'm not the only one aware of the irony here.

I hate when people throw out irony.  No one uses its correct usage. Ever.

Modifié par xMellowhype, 19 octobre 2012 - 04:23 .

[Ticonderoga117]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You know what's amazing, is that if Earth had discovered all this prothean tech first, I don't think Earth would have been sharing it freely with the rest of the galaxy. No. Earth would have used it to build an arsenal and built a galactic-wide empire similar to the protheans. Share freely isn't in our vocabulary. At least the asari aren't expansionist and warmongering. Come on, you guys know it's true.

Yeah, and the Galaxy would've been ready to fight the Reapers. The Asari did NOTHING about the impending doom and brushed us off when we said crap was coming. They freakin' had the VI to warn them about this whole thing right there!!

[Sibu]

I laughed when their planet got invaded

[Deadlysyns]

Just to point out a Military grade Defense Grid would not be installed during ME3 so yeah and the Asari Scientists were there they must of been there to show you how to activate it.

[robertthebard]

JBPBRC wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

But...the Crucible isn't complete without the Catalyst...

Which was the part of the puzzle it was designed to reveal.  When you start Priority:  Thessia, you have a vidcom chat with Hackett, who lets you know that, other than the Catalyst, the Crucible is ready to go.

[Deadlysyns]

robertthebard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

this usually gets noticed better if you Quote so here it goes. THE SCIENTISTS ON THESSIA WERE THERE TO HELP YOU ACTIVATE THE BEACON WHICH MEANS THE ASARI HAVE USED IT IN SOME WAY BEFORE.

[robertthebard]

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

this usually gets noticed better if you Quote so here it goes. THE SCIENTISTS ON THESSIA WERE THERE TO HELP YOU ACTIVATE THE BEACON WHICH MEANS THE ASARI HAVE USED IT IN SOME WAY BEFORE.

If you're directing this to me, you're preaching to the choir, as I already know they were using it, or had used it before.  I was merely pointing out the glaring inconsistency of "they have to have a cipher to understand it".

[Deadlysyns]

robertthebard wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

this usually gets noticed better if you Quote so here it goes. THE SCIENTISTS ON THESSIA WERE THERE TO HELP YOU ACTIVATE THE BEACON WHICH MEANS THE ASARI HAVE USED IT IN SOME WAY BEFORE.

If you're directing this to me, you're preaching to the choir, as I already know they were using it, or had used it before.  I was merely pointing out the glaring inconsistency of "they have to have a cipher to understand it".

no i was hoping someone else would read it if it was in a quote didn't work to well lol 

[robertthebard]

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

this usually gets noticed better if you Quote so here it goes. THE SCIENTISTS ON THESSIA WERE THERE TO HELP YOU ACTIVATE THE BEACON WHICH MEANS THE ASARI HAVE USED IT IN SOME WAY BEFORE.

If you're directing this to me, you're preaching to the choir, as I already know they were using it, or had used it before.  I was merely pointing out the glaring inconsistency of "they have to have a cipher to understand it".

no i was hoping someone else would read it if it was in a quote didn't work to well lol 

Well, it's in more quotes now, maybe it will still work.

[Deadlysyns]

robertthebard wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Deadlysyns wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There are ways to get information out of prothean relics without a Cypher, and the only rule stating you can't get anything out of a Beacon otherwise is a rule you've invented to justify that position. The cast of the franchise disagree, the lore of the franchise disagrees, and even the in-universe treatment of Prothean artifacts disagree. Beacons were considered valuable technological treasure troves even before the Cypher was known to exist.

If they could have gotten anything out of it, how could they possibly not know about the extremely advanced anti-Reaper VI inside it? It wasn't all that reluctant to talk to non-indoctrinated people, after all. Tevos certainly had no idea what was inside it, only the vaguest idea that something might be there that might possibly be helpful.

You didn't pay much attention on Thessia, did you?

"I was programmed to remain hidden until the Crucible was completed".  So, it's probably because the device was ready for use when you find it, just a guess.

On the other hand, since in ME 1, we know that finding the Prothean stuff on Mars is how humankind got caught up with the rest of the galaxy tech wise, I guess we already had a Cipher, and everyone just forgot about it?

this usually gets noticed better if you Quote so here it goes. THE SCIENTISTS ON THESSIA WERE THERE TO HELP YOU ACTIVATE THE BEACON WHICH MEANS THE ASARI HAVE USED IT IN SOME WAY BEFORE.

If you're directing this to me, you're preaching to the choir, as I already know they were using it, or had used it before.  I was merely pointing out the glaring inconsistency of "they have to have a cipher to understand it".

no i was hoping someone else would read it if it was in a quote didn't work to well lol 

Well, it's in more quotes now, maybe it will still work.

people seem to forget those Dead scientists even though they were there i guess its just hypocritical Asari lovers who are blind to the facts before them. 

[StarcloudSWG]

The scientists on Thessia were not there to help you activate the Beacon. We see what happens when the Beacon activates; that statue breaks and falls apart. It was intact before you got there, ergo, the Asari had not learned how to turn the thing on.

The Asari had managed to tap into their Beacon, but had NOT managed to fully and properly activate it. The scientists were there to help you access the database, but it is *extremely* unlikely that they knew how to properly activate the Beacon and invoke the Vendetta AI.

As an analogy; The Asari had learned how to access comma-delimited files in their raw format, but had to reconstruct what each field meant. Shepard, by virtue of the Cipher, was able to open the file in Excel and get all the associated macros working too.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:20 .