475 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob Garbage]

This just in, the writing in ME3 wasn't that great. Let's make a thread and argue about stupid **** for 10 pages.

[The Night Mammoth]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... you're condemning Tevos for being upset? She wasn't even angry at you.

I'm condemning Tevos for not telling me about the beacon despite me asking for her help, and for being all sad and dissapointed in me because I couldn't save the day again despite the circumstances, which were partly her fault. 

Reading the first sentence in my post also would have been a good idea. Logically, I can see why she couldn't tell me, but logically, I can see why not doing so makes her a f*cking idiot. 

She's beholden to Thessia's government; she couldn't say anything until they let her, just like Sparatus couldn't command the turian armies to help Earth.

Logically, I can see why she couldn't tell me. 

Sparatus is in a different situation, being that even if he wanted to command the Turian military to help Earth he literally can't because he's doesn't have the power to; only the Primarch does. 

Which is grand because said Primarch ends up helping you thanks to Sparatus.  

So really, he's the complete opposite to Tevos. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:10 .

[Argolas]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... you're condemning Tevos for being upset? She wasn't even angry at you.

Tevos was aweful. I could not stand how she ignored the war summit, and she held back the Asari´s dirty secrets until Thessia itself was under siege.

I wish my renegade Shepards could call her out on that. "If you'd told us about this the moment the Reapers showed up we'd already have the Catalyst and your world wouldn't be burning."

But no... my 'People Die' Shepard gets all moody and sad for no reason and apologizes to the person who withheld valuable information until it was no longer viable.

Even my Paragon Shepard would have got very angry because of that. Tevos never did anything good in ME3 except telling us about the secret beacon, and she did that when it already was too late as we learn later.

[Barquiel]

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... you're condemning Tevos for being upset? She wasn't even angry at you.

Tevos was aweful. I could not stand how she ignored the war summit, and she held back the Asari´s dirty secrets until Thessia itself was under siege.

Tevos didn't hold back anything.

She tells you she has just received information (existence of the beacon) from her government when she contacts Shepard after Rannoch, and wants to discuss this on the citadel. She simply didn't know the beacon existed before the war.

Modifié par Barquiel, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:16 .

[Argolas]

Barquiel wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So... you're condemning Tevos for being upset? She wasn't even angry at you.

Tevos was aweful. I could not stand how she ignored the war summit, and she held back the Asari´s dirty secrets until Thessia itself was under siege.

Tevos didn't hold back anything.

She tells you she has just received information (existence of the beacon) from her government when she contacts Shepard after Rannoch, and wants to discuss this on the citadel. She simply didn't know the beacon existed before the war.

Really? I guess I missed that, then. If so, the Asari government is to blame- but only on that one.

[Xilizhra]

Logically, I can see why she couldn't tell me.

Sparatus is in a different situation, being that even if he wanted to command the Turian military to help Earth he literally can't because he's doesn't have the power to, only the Primarch does.

Kind of a bad comparison. You neglected to mention that he does actually help you by pointing you to Menae, so really he's the complete opposite to Tevos.

The asari government gives you a bunch of stuff without needing to do any specific errands for them, including the Destiny Ascension. And I don't know if the asari actually knew that the beacon would be helpful until they heard about the Catalyst issue, which may have taken some time. Also, what Barquiel said.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:18 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Xilizhra wrote...

Logically, I can see why she couldn't tell me.

Sparatus is in a different situation, being that even if he wanted to command the Turian military to help Earth he literally can't because he's doesn't have the power to, only the Primarch does.

Kind of a bad comparison. You neglected to mention that he does actually help you by pointing you to Menae, so really he's the complete opposite to Tevos.

The asari government gives you a bunch of stuff without needing to do any specific errands for them, including the Destiny Ascension.

Every species gives me help without me doing anything for them. The Ascension also isn't an asari fleet ship, it's part of the Citadel Fleet, the Council is responsible for its help.

And I don't know if the asari actually knew that the beacon would be helpful until they heard about the Catalyst issue, which may have taken some time. Also, what Barquiel said.

So what? They have a major Prothean artifact hidden on their planet that they suspected could help. Only when the Reapers were about to smash the door in did they decide to do anything about it. Regardless, the fact that they're the one's responsible for the various laws against hiding Prothean artifacts despite having a beacon hidden away on their homeplanet is enough to get shengqi at.

Tevos knew. It's evident from your conversation with her.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Xilizhra]

So what? They have a major Prothean artifact hidden on their planet that they suspected could help. Only when the Reapers were about to smash the door in did they decide to help.

They didn't think it could, initially, until right then. The Reapers had shown up in the Athena Nebula long before that; it wasn't motivated by proximity.

[Barquiel]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Tevos knew. It's evident from your conversation with her.

No, she didn't.



And the asari decided to give you their fleets and the Destiny Ascension, not the council. Hackett confirms this as well (Since the coup attempt, the asari have stepped up to the plate. They're ... And believe it or not, they've promised us the Destiny Ascension.).

Modifié par Barquiel, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:36 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Xilizhra wrote...

So what? They have a major Prothean artifact hidden on their planet that they suspected could help. Only when the Reapers were about to smash the door in did they decide to help.

They didn't think it could, initially, until right then.

They had suspicions else why would the contact you?

The Reapers had shown up in the Athena Nebula long before that; it wasn't motivated by proximity.

Yeah it was. The war's been raging for weeks by that time, both Palaven and Earth are battlegrounds. The only motivation they had was Thessia being threatened, Tevos says as much. 

If not, what other possible motivation could they have? Sudden faith in Shepard after Rannoch? What else were they going to do about the Reapers, reason with them? Ta ma de, I don't know which would be worse, either situation makes then naive, idiotic hypocrites. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:47 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Tevos knew. It's evident from your conversation with her.

No, she didn't.

And the asari decided to give you their fleets and the Destiny Ascension, not the council. Hackett confirms this as well (Since the coup attempt, the asari have stepped up to the plate. They're ... And believe it or not, they've promised us the Destiny Ascension.).

Fair enough on the second, but the first I'm adamant about. You have more than one conversation with her. 

[StarcloudSWG]

The information Councilor Tevos received probably was not "Oh, by the way, we've got an active, intact beacon"... from what she said, I got the impression she already *knew* about it before it was revealed in game. It was more likely a message that she was allowed to tell Shepard about it.

What really and truly bugged me was that the Asari, who are supposed to be galactic community builders, brushed off any and all attempts by Shepard to, well, bridge the broken ties between different races. It's hypocrisy at the highest level.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

So what? They have a major Prothean artifact hidden on their planet that they suspected could help. Only when the Reapers were about to smash the door in did they decide to help.

They didn't think it could, initially, until right then. The Reapers had shown up in the Athena Nebula long before that; it wasn't motivated by proximity.

"They didn't think it could help?" Bull****. We're running around grabbing Prothean artifacts of all stripes (even nonmilitary museum pieces) in fetch quests for the first 2/3rd of the narrative. Some of these quests are given by Asari, and we're supposed to believe they didn't know it was valuable?

We're not attacking the Asari as a species here. The fault lies with the Asari government, and we're putting the blame squarely where it belongs. They kept it hidden to maintain their edge over the other races, and outlawed the practice for everyone else. They were driven by a jealous desire to stay on top, and their planet burned for it. Why are you so dead-set on defending them?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:50 .

[Barquiel]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

The information Councilor Tevos received probably was not "Oh, by the way, we've got an active, intact beacon"... from what she said, I got the impression she already *knew* about it before it was revealed in game. It was more likely a message that she was allowed to tell Shepard about it.

I think she would have worded this differently (My government instructed me to...)

It is obvious Tevos doesn't really know anything about the beacon. She tells you that the matriarchs on Thessia are growing desperate, and that (with any luck), the "artifact" is a means to help us locate the Catalyst.

[Xilizhra]

We're not attacking the Asari as a species here.

Yes you are. By proxy, possibly, but you are.

The fault lies with the Asari government, and we're putting the blame squarely where it belongs. They kept it hidden to maintain their edge over the other races, and outlawed the practice for everyone else. They were driven by a jealous desire to stay on top, and their planet burned for it. Why are you so dead-set on defending them?

Because there's no way they could have gotten coherent information out of it; the asari could never have advanced because of that beacon (and plainly had no idea what was on it). And Tevos wasn't in charge of this affair.

[AresKeith]

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Tevos knew. It's evident from your conversation with her.

No, she didn't.



And the asari decided to give you their fleets and the Destiny Ascension, not the council. Hackett confirms this as well (Since the coup attempt, the asari have stepped up to the plate. They're ... And believe it or not, they've promised us the Destiny Ascension.).

I like Tevos

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

We're not attacking the Asari as a species here.

Yes you are. By proxy, possibly, but you are.

So is gut-punching Gerrel an attack on the Quarian species, then?

Xilizhra wrote...

The fault lies with the Asari government, and we're putting the blame squarely where it belongs. They kept it hidden to maintain their edge over the other races, and outlawed the practice for everyone else. They were driven by a jealous desire to stay on top, and their planet burned for it. Why are you so dead-set on defending them?

Because there's no way they could have gotten coherent information out of it; the asari could never have advanced because of that beacon (and plainly had no idea what was on it). And Tevos wasn't in charge of this affair.

How many times have they talked to the guy with the Prothean cipher in his head at this point? And even if we were to ignore that, likely because he's busy running around gathering Prothean artifacts of lesser significance, what's the harm of turning over something that MIGHT help? Javik says it's obvious they're hoarding. Asari apologists just don't want to admit it. If that's how you choose to view things in your playthrough, good for you. The rest of us are pissed off by what they did.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 octobre 2012 - 07:00 .

[Barquiel]

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

When? 

Even so, EDI is quite obviously wrong. They Citadel would most likely not have been taken to Earth, to start with. 

[Silcron]

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

And since EDI knows every possible outcome she's right. Sorry to get in the middle of the conversation like that.

For the matter being discussed I understand the asari, even Liara (she whines because she can't deal with it as Garrus or James does) I just wish there were options for shepard to tell Liara or the councilor to stfu, I wouldn't use them with Liara (I romance her after all and would try to be kind) but I'd give a talk to the councilor, and some people would want to tell Liara to stfu.

[DeinonSlayer]

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

You can keep arguing all you want. There's no reason the dialog option should not have been there to be confrontational about this revalation, instead of apologizing for something they did.

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

You can keep arguing all you want. There's no reason the dialog option should not have been there to be confrontational about this revalation, instead of apologizing for something they did.

I don't know. I feel sort of satisfied about it not being there to spite you. Is it wrong? Maybe, but your positions aren't endearing.

[Barquiel]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

When? 

Even so, EDI is quite obviously wrong. They Citadel would most likely not have been taken to Earth, to start with. 

After Thessia

The asari reveal the beacon -> a horde of scientists would try to crack it -> they would fail (because they're no protheans) -> the beacon would be useless

It was a lucky coincidence that Shepard found the beacon, and activated it.

[SNascimento]

Are people defending the Asari for keeping the beacon a secret?

[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Yeah, because they knew that the prothean cipher would activate a hidden VI in their artifact. Right. EDI flat out tells you that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing...

When? 

Even so, EDI is quite obviously wrong. They Citadel would most likely not have been taken to Earth, to start with. 

After Thessia

The asari reveal the beacon -> a horde of scientists would try to crack it -> they would fail (because they're no protheans) -> the beacon would be useless

Or, they tell Shepard, she comes along as normal and Vendetta appears. Except Cerberus is likely not there, Thessia isn't under attack, and the Citadel isn't moved to Earth or taken by the Reapers. 

It was a lucky coincidence that Shepard found the beacon, and activated it.

Really? So what was lucky or coincidental about it?