The ending is horrible and MOTB was just a polished turd. We need a new one.
Why wasn't there an EC for this?
Débuté par
Dasher1010
, oct. 18 2012 09:03
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#2
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 09:41
Dann-J
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I agree about the ending of the first campaign. Getting some random guy they found in a comic book store to do the voiceover wasn't the best choice. A CGI rendered movie like the one they used for the intro would have been more impressive than a slideshow. No doubt they rushed to release the game before it was properly finished.
I quite enjoyed MotB, although they did flog the mask metaphors to death. Plus having a ticking clock didn't leave you much time to stop and admire the scenery, or go exploring for side quests.
I quite enjoyed MotB, although they did flog the mask metaphors to death. Plus having a ticking clock didn't leave you much time to stop and admire the scenery, or go exploring for side quests.
#3
Posté 19 octobre 2012 - 12:14
I_Raps
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A CGI movie would have been cool, but I don't think it's fair to say it wasn't done because the project was rushed. How do you do that with an assortment of about ten different characters (magic-user in silhouette, no doubt) - never mind the PC - without exhorbitant resources?
I think the reason for the lack of movie is found is this unrelated comment, ironically posted just today:
drechner: "Basically, the Prologue is ~1.5gb, but the entire game is ~2gb :)"
Baldur's Gate Remake Thread
Now, perhaps someone can answer a question for me - what is meant here by "EC?"
I think the reason for the lack of movie is found is this unrelated comment, ironically posted just today:
drechner: "Basically, the Prologue is ~1.5gb, but the entire game is ~2gb :)"
Baldur's Gate Remake Thread
Now, perhaps someone can answer a question for me - what is meant here by "EC?"
Modifié par I_Raps, 19 octobre 2012 - 12:27 .
#5
Posté 19 octobre 2012 - 05:11
Avalon Aurora
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Extended Cut is probably what OP means, a-la the one for Mass Effect 3.
As bad as NWN2 OC's ending was, it was actually pretty classic for D&D. 'Rocks fall, everyone dies', is the stereotypical joke way for DM's to deal with too powerful players (often munchkins and/or high-level ones) to end the campaign, or when pissed off by players defeating their favorite monsters or doing something really stupid or irritating or derailing the game too much, when an overpowered monster won't do the job. The voiced over simple drawings is semi-traditional for these sorts of games, even the questionable voice acting part of it. I'm not saying it was good, but it was traditional and semi-iconic for the genera of D&D based CRPGs and/or D&D games.
The game certainly had issues, and I'd love to see a major mod work done to fix up the OC, but unlike Mass Effect, we could have it be a player done version, thanks to the game's modding tools!
Possible suggestions for such? (***WARNING SPOILERS!***)
1. More branching paths and possibilities, in particular, some previously railroaded incidents should be possible to deal with, or deal with in different ways, such as perhaps detecting and stopping the lizardfolk from burning down Shandra's barn with spot/listen checks to initiate an encounter, and try to stop them, creating better reactions from Shandra, being able to stop Amie from getting killed (possibly allowing her to become a companion or help with the keep later) perhaps with a hidden wisdom check, then a quick dialogue tree option to try and stop her, resulting in a dexterity check to grab her, and a strength check to prevent her from throwing you off, some incidents (like the dead dwarf and Shandra's death) where you might be able to use resurrection spells outside of combat, or some kind of evil option to give away the shards to the Githyanki (cutting yourself open and healing the wound afterwards to remove the one stuck in your chest).
2. More NPC party member development, and fixes to NPC party member personality/alignment issues, as well as most of them becoming more optional, particularly evil ones (because paladin PCs) or cases where their alignment doesn't fit their personality, or their character has major issues that need fixing to begin with, (or at least the development regarding such) including the likes of Qara and Grobnar to make Qara less insane and dangerous to her allies (although perhaps she'll still start out with those issues and the PC will teach her otherwise) and either give Grobnar some appropriate character development and better/extra side-missions, or make him less annoying. Creating some new characters might be necessary for this, as Casivir should not be joining an evil aligned PC, or one with evil party members, and would probably avoid them after detecting evil on the group, while many pcs, especially paladins, would probably refuse to work with the likes of Bishop, and probably Ammon Jerro as well. Casivir might not necessarily need a replacement option for evil parties, but Bishop probably needs a replacement tracker, and Ammon probably needs a replacement route for his story parts (although I suppose Zhajeve might be able to pull it off, or maybe Shandra who re-trains as a (Chaotic Good) warlock after being exposed to eldritch powers in the haven if the story is changed so she survives (perhaps only if Ammon dies?)). Certain party members should get special quests, particularly relating to the Neverwinter Academy for Qara and Sand. New romance options might also be nice, perhaps Neeshka, Qara, Kelgar (if PC is a female dwarf), Grobnar (if PC is a female gnome), Construct (if PC is one of the 4 elemental outsider influenced types, and does some kind of thing to further awaken the Construct, since golems are typically animated by bound elemental spirits), lesbian options for Elanee (as she seems interested in the PC even if they are female, and Sand (if PC is a female elf or half-elf), although these would likely be restricted partly by alignment and certain events and stuff.
3. Fixing glitches and other issues, fixing up various fights and things with different items and stuff, enhancing and making easier to use many aspects of running the keep.
4. Throwing in elements that the expansions made possible that weren't possible when the OC was made, such as resting mechanics and party social skills in a coherent manner.
5. Re-doing the voice-acting
6. Re-doing some of the modeling on the PC stuff, particularly some of the older heads (especially the elves and half-elves, who are mostly rather fugly/weird) and the PC voice packs, adding in some less quirky personalities and better female voices.
7. Alignment stuff generally being re-worked, as the OC handled alignments poorly overall, and largely forgot about handling chaotic good and lawful evil alignments, made neutral very hard and weird to maintain, when it should be relatively easy, and overall didn't seem to fully understand the nature of chaotic or lawful alignments. This would probably require re-working most of the game's dialogue trees, and many parts of certain quests, adding in extra options, and changing the alignment points different things cause. Also, Qara, who behaves closer to Neutral Evil than Chaotic Neutral much of the time, but could probably be fixed relatively easily to properly be chaotic neutral (with options for good PC's to coax her to becoming chaotic good (required to have both sand and her on your side in the end), or evil PCs coax her to become chaotic evil (because FIRE!))
8. More character development, side-quests, options, different ways to solve non-combat encounters, some more proper opportunities to use the trap-setting skills, etc.
As bad as NWN2 OC's ending was, it was actually pretty classic for D&D. 'Rocks fall, everyone dies', is the stereotypical joke way for DM's to deal with too powerful players (often munchkins and/or high-level ones) to end the campaign, or when pissed off by players defeating their favorite monsters or doing something really stupid or irritating or derailing the game too much, when an overpowered monster won't do the job. The voiced over simple drawings is semi-traditional for these sorts of games, even the questionable voice acting part of it. I'm not saying it was good, but it was traditional and semi-iconic for the genera of D&D based CRPGs and/or D&D games.
The game certainly had issues, and I'd love to see a major mod work done to fix up the OC, but unlike Mass Effect, we could have it be a player done version, thanks to the game's modding tools!
Possible suggestions for such? (***WARNING SPOILERS!***)
1. More branching paths and possibilities, in particular, some previously railroaded incidents should be possible to deal with, or deal with in different ways, such as perhaps detecting and stopping the lizardfolk from burning down Shandra's barn with spot/listen checks to initiate an encounter, and try to stop them, creating better reactions from Shandra, being able to stop Amie from getting killed (possibly allowing her to become a companion or help with the keep later) perhaps with a hidden wisdom check, then a quick dialogue tree option to try and stop her, resulting in a dexterity check to grab her, and a strength check to prevent her from throwing you off, some incidents (like the dead dwarf and Shandra's death) where you might be able to use resurrection spells outside of combat, or some kind of evil option to give away the shards to the Githyanki (cutting yourself open and healing the wound afterwards to remove the one stuck in your chest).
2. More NPC party member development, and fixes to NPC party member personality/alignment issues, as well as most of them becoming more optional, particularly evil ones (because paladin PCs) or cases where their alignment doesn't fit their personality, or their character has major issues that need fixing to begin with, (or at least the development regarding such) including the likes of Qara and Grobnar to make Qara less insane and dangerous to her allies (although perhaps she'll still start out with those issues and the PC will teach her otherwise) and either give Grobnar some appropriate character development and better/extra side-missions, or make him less annoying. Creating some new characters might be necessary for this, as Casivir should not be joining an evil aligned PC, or one with evil party members, and would probably avoid them after detecting evil on the group, while many pcs, especially paladins, would probably refuse to work with the likes of Bishop, and probably Ammon Jerro as well. Casivir might not necessarily need a replacement option for evil parties, but Bishop probably needs a replacement tracker, and Ammon probably needs a replacement route for his story parts (although I suppose Zhajeve might be able to pull it off, or maybe Shandra who re-trains as a (Chaotic Good) warlock after being exposed to eldritch powers in the haven if the story is changed so she survives (perhaps only if Ammon dies?)). Certain party members should get special quests, particularly relating to the Neverwinter Academy for Qara and Sand. New romance options might also be nice, perhaps Neeshka, Qara, Kelgar (if PC is a female dwarf), Grobnar (if PC is a female gnome), Construct (if PC is one of the 4 elemental outsider influenced types, and does some kind of thing to further awaken the Construct, since golems are typically animated by bound elemental spirits), lesbian options for Elanee (as she seems interested in the PC even if they are female, and Sand (if PC is a female elf or half-elf), although these would likely be restricted partly by alignment and certain events and stuff.
3. Fixing glitches and other issues, fixing up various fights and things with different items and stuff, enhancing and making easier to use many aspects of running the keep.
4. Throwing in elements that the expansions made possible that weren't possible when the OC was made, such as resting mechanics and party social skills in a coherent manner.
5. Re-doing the voice-acting
6. Re-doing some of the modeling on the PC stuff, particularly some of the older heads (especially the elves and half-elves, who are mostly rather fugly/weird) and the PC voice packs, adding in some less quirky personalities and better female voices.
7. Alignment stuff generally being re-worked, as the OC handled alignments poorly overall, and largely forgot about handling chaotic good and lawful evil alignments, made neutral very hard and weird to maintain, when it should be relatively easy, and overall didn't seem to fully understand the nature of chaotic or lawful alignments. This would probably require re-working most of the game's dialogue trees, and many parts of certain quests, adding in extra options, and changing the alignment points different things cause. Also, Qara, who behaves closer to Neutral Evil than Chaotic Neutral much of the time, but could probably be fixed relatively easily to properly be chaotic neutral (with options for good PC's to coax her to becoming chaotic good (required to have both sand and her on your side in the end), or evil PCs coax her to become chaotic evil (because FIRE!))
8. More character development, side-quests, options, different ways to solve non-combat encounters, some more proper opportunities to use the trap-setting skills, etc.
#6
Posté 19 octobre 2012 - 10:49
Axe_Edge
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It would have been nice to have more branching paths, more fully realized character development, and better elf heads, etc... Many storylines were shortened or cut, due to the time/money constraints (nice work Atari). With support, premium modules may have been able to focus on an NPC's story (thanks, Atari). Development for NWN2 and DAO began nearly the same month. NWN2 was released 3 years before DAO.
I don't agree there should have been ways to fix personality issues. Sometimes, people (characters) are who they are. Qara is on the insane side and dangerous to have in the party. That's just her. Remember the "Bishop" threads? The discussions about his "evilness" were interesting. The other Bishop threads were less interesting to me. Bishop's psyche is broken. No matter how much women want to help Bishop to become a better person, he will still tell them how much they love him and he will kick their dog on his way out in the morning.
Players get to fix Khelgar, a little. Watching an NPC grow is valid. Qara may settle down slightly after maturing. I see her as a teenager filled with angst, in the OC.
People (characters) die. Later, Amie.
The cornerstone of an RPG is the story. Players want to have an epic journey, be the hero (good or evil) of the game, and be a world changer. Things go wrong. Somebody has to take the hit. Being able to fix/save everything along the way toward the ending is not a storyline I want to be a part of.
I don't agree there should have been ways to fix personality issues. Sometimes, people (characters) are who they are. Qara is on the insane side and dangerous to have in the party. That's just her. Remember the "Bishop" threads? The discussions about his "evilness" were interesting. The other Bishop threads were less interesting to me. Bishop's psyche is broken. No matter how much women want to help Bishop to become a better person, he will still tell them how much they love him and he will kick their dog on his way out in the morning.
Players get to fix Khelgar, a little. Watching an NPC grow is valid. Qara may settle down slightly after maturing. I see her as a teenager filled with angst, in the OC.
People (characters) die. Later, Amie.
The cornerstone of an RPG is the story. Players want to have an epic journey, be the hero (good or evil) of the game, and be a world changer. Things go wrong. Somebody has to take the hit. Being able to fix/save everything along the way toward the ending is not a storyline I want to be a part of.
Modifié par Axe_Edge, 20 octobre 2012 - 04:44 .
