325 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Rawgrim wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

To keep things simple it's better to imagine that Hawke meets Anders 3 months after Awakening's epilogue.

This is true. Problem is, he died in my epilogue.

Even if Anders was never recruited and Justice was killed at the Dragonbone Wastes, they meet by the magic of the Plot Dictates.

[Rawgrim]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

To keep things simple it's better to imagine that Hawke meets Anders 3 months after Awakening's epilogue.

This is true. Problem is, he died in my epilogue.

Even if Anders was never recruited and Justice was killed at the Dragonbone Wastes, they meet by the magic of the Plot Dictates.

Yup. and according to the timeline, they did so when Anders and Hawke were trotting about in the Deep Roads.

[Hurbster]

I don't really care about Leliana (I'm not the sort of guy who would side with the cultists anyway), I do find the retcon somewhat odd for people who did kill her, though.

But if they resurrect bloody Anders.....That would be enough for me to seriously consider not getting the game.

[Rawgrim]

I only sided with the cultists in the first playthrough. The wardens were all about doing their job, no matter the consequences. Thats how I saw it anyway hehe. I never sided with them after that, though. and Leliana is probably my favorite character all in all.

[iSignIn]

Nope. The Maker can revive His minions from the dead as zombies.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Because we don't know how long it took Flemeth to take Hawke to Gwaren -- and by extension, whether it was an instant zap there or if she just protected them during the trip.

All we have to go on is that Hawke left Gwaren heading for Kirkwall and it took him two weeks and 3 days to get in. Add into that the timeline of events for DAO's main quests that we've never been given, and it becomes confusing even further.

Does Lothering get destroyed 2 months after Ostagar? Or is it a week after Ostagar?

Add into that the fact that Awakening supposedly takes place 6 months after the Blight ended and the events of that expansion seem to point to it being at least a 2 month timespan of events, and it becomes even more confusing.

[Rawgrim]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Because we don't know how long it took Flemeth to take Hawke to Gwaren -- and by extension, whether it was an instant zap there or if she just protected them during the trip.

All we have to go on is that Hawke left Gwaren heading for Kirkwall and it took him two weeks and 3 days to get in. Add into that the timeline of events for DAO's main quests that we've never been given, and it becomes confusing even further.

Does Lothering get destroyed 2 months after Ostagar? Or is it a week after Ostagar?

Add into that the fact that Awakening supposedly takes place 6 months after the Blight ended and the events of that expansion seem to point to it being at least a 2 month timespan of events, and it becomes even more confusing.

Pretty much this. And NPCs starts talking about the blight having been stopped, while anders is in your party. And since its 6 months between Awakening and the end of the blight...

[scootermcgaffin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Because we don't know how long it took Flemeth to take Hawke to Gwaren -- and by extension, whether it was an instant zap there or if she just protected them during the trip.

All we have to go on is that Hawke left Gwaren heading for Kirkwall and it took him two weeks and 3 days to get in. Add into that the timeline of events for DAO's main quests that we've never been given, and it becomes confusing even further.

Does Lothering get destroyed 2 months after Ostagar? Or is it a week after Ostagar?

Add into that the fact that Awakening supposedly takes place 6 months after the Blight ended and the events of that expansion seem to point to it being at least a 2 month timespan of events, and it becomes even more confusing.

We don't know how long it took them to get to Gwaren--probably not more than a few days at most. Flemeth, most likely, showed them how to avoid the Darkspawn the same way she showed the Warden and Alistair before they left for Lothering. Then however long it takes to get to Kirkwall from Gwaren--I want to say Varric gives a timeframe on that, but don't remember for sure, so I won't. Then two weeks and three days to get into Kirkwall, and at least one full year after that before meeting Varric (it's not unreasonable to assume a couple weeks have passed after they left the mercenaries/smugglers and that they aren't having the conversation with Bartrand the same day they leave their previous employ)

[ZerebusPrime]

I dunno, I like the idea of Justice possessing an undead Anders....

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly? 

Wynne notes that it's been an entire year since the mage protagonist left the Circle of Ferelden. There's also the months that transpired between the demise of the Archdemon Urthemiel and the royal ceremony where the Hero of Ferelden can ask for a royal boon (as the developers said it took place a few months afterward and not immediately), and the six months that took place between the royal ceremony and the events of Amaranthine.

The Wynne one is the 'big' one as it's explicitly stated, although you only ever see it as a mage PC and it's a passing comment. Honestly I thought it was one of those dialogue 'things' that was overlooked and would have best been removed, but if Oghren says he's been a surface dwarf for 2 years in Awakening and there's been enough time post-Blight for him to have had a child with Felsi (presuming a dwarven pregnancy takes as long as a human one) then perhaps it's not so far-fetched.

Added up, if we accept all that, then a year after Ostagar Anders was possibly not even at the Vigil yet and was busily evading Templars in both the arling of Amaranthine and Kirkwall's underground.

[TEWR]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Then however long it takes to get to Kirkwall from Gwaren--I want to say Varric gives a timeframe on that, but don't remember for sure, so I won't.

Two weeks. Then they spend three days waiting for Gamlen to meet them.

and at least one full year after that before meeting Varric (it's not unreasonable to assume a couple weeks have passed after they left the mercenaries/smugglers and that they aren't having the conversation with Bartrand the same day they leave their previous employ)

But you see, these are all assumptions trying to fix a horribly twisted timeline of events that makes little sense.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

David Gaider wrote...

andocrack wrote...
DG says the decision to kill them isn't gone, but they are alive despite that choice.

This is indeed the case. If this is inconsistent with someone's expectations of what they believe that decision should result in, than so be it. I imagine that will happen, depending on where your personal expectations lie. If someone prefers to believe a character like Leliana is only alive because I'm personally "obsessed" with them... well, again. So be it. There is only so much room for us to maneuver-- we cannot make a customized story completely to order like a drive-thru burger joint could make a burger. We shall honor choices as best we can, to varying degrees of importance to the overall narrative. And I shall leave it at that.

Well, when we kill a character, we, you know, expect them to stay dead. I mean, it is the practical way of thinking. When I see a character that I have killed pop up in Kirkwall, the instance conveys me to believe that my choices really won't matter, except if it's a choice that goes along with the way the writers want the story to be told. 

[Uhh.. Jonah]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

Then however long it takes to get to Kirkwall from Gwaren--I want to say Varric gives a timeframe on that, but don't remember for sure, so I won't.

Two weeks. Then they spend three days waiting for Gamlen to meet them.

and at least one full year after that before meeting Varric (it's not unreasonable to assume a couple weeks have passed after they left the mercenaries/smugglers and that they aren't having the conversation with Bartrand the same day they leave their previous employ)

But you see, these are all assumptions trying to fix a horribly twisted timeline of events that makes little sense.

That timeline seriously boggles my mind.

[FlamingBoy]

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

don't include the choice unless your serious about it, this is the solution to this problem

as seen in dragon age and mass effect 2, you guys put on the guise you are serious at the time about making choices and making a difference (and killing a character is a big choice) but it turns out to be a bit of a hoax. this is unacceptable

[scootermcgaffin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But you see, these are all assumptions trying to fix a horribly twisted timeline of events that makes little sense.

It is not at all an assumption that a full year passes. That's the deal. You work with them for a year, they get you into the city. 

[Uhh.. Jonah]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But you see, these are all assumptions trying to fix a horribly twisted timeline of events that makes little sense.

It is not at all an assumption that a full year passes. That's the deal. You work with them for a year, they get you into the city. 

Lol oh yeah, forgot about that. Not it all makes sense.

[Iakus]

BrotherWarth wrote...

I really don't like Leliana's survival of death being waved away with "We might explain that later." How about just being honest and admitting you wished you'd never given us the ability to kill her and that you wanted to use her again more than you wanted to honor player agency? Writers get to have regrets. Robert Kirkman says his biggest regret as a writer is lopping off Rick Grimes' hand. But he doesn't get to give Rick his hand back and say "maybe I'll explain how it grew back some day."

I think that's the biggest problem really.  Not the fact that Leliana survives, but that how she survived is totally unexplained.  This is not a small detail to be handwaved.  Even magic can't bring back the dead.  This is a Big Deal

Well, to anyone who killed her.  I never did.  I actually like Leliana 

[Maria Caliban]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Wynne one is the 'big' one as it's explicitly stated, although you only ever see it as a mage PC and it's a passing comment.

Are you sure it's for mage PCs only? I never played one, but I thought I had a chat with Wynne about it being a year since they've met.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Wynne one is the 'big' one as it's explicitly stated, although you only ever see it as a mage PC and it's a passing comment.

Are you sure it's for mage PCs only? I never played one, but I thought I had a chat with Wynne about it being a year since they've met.

To my recollection (which is not always correct, but I don't have the toolset on hand right now) the context of the conversation is that Wynne is commenting it's been one year since the PC left the Circle Tower in Duncan's company. Unless someone else beats me to the punch and looks up the quote, I'll verify when I get the chance.

A year since meeting her in Ostagar would seem even more strange if she's one of the first people the Warden recruits. o_O Just how long was the PC convalescing in Flemeth's hut? Eh...it's not like the walk from Kinloch Hold to Ostagar would have taken that long either...

Time and distance in cRPGs. Go figure.

[TEWR]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But you see, these are all assumptions trying to fix a horribly twisted timeline of events that makes little sense.

It is not at all an assumption that a full year passes. That's the deal. You work with them for a year, they get you into the city. 

Not that. I meant the whole "left Meeran's/Athenril's service weeks before going to Bartrand" thing, or the few days alongside Flemeth thing.

Aside from very small iotas of information as to how much time going from one point to another takes -- like a week to Orzammar's gates and another week down it just from Gherlen's Pass, IIRC -- we do not have enough information to draw a comprehensive timeline of events and as a result...

...**** is confusing as hell.

[BigBad]

The part that gets me about the whole timeline issue is that we have an automatic get-out-of-continuity-problem-free card. The entirety of Dragon Age II, as experienced by the player, is being explicitly narrated by Varric after the fact. With a little narrative device known in the business as an 'unreliable narrator' (which is pretty much a two-word definition of Varric), continuity problems become trivially easy to rationalize.

Maybe Hawke worked for 18 months instead of a year, but Varric thought a year sounded better. Maybe there are a number of unexplained gaps in his timeline that he glosses over by rounded them off. Maybe he's actually giving wrong info on purpose to hide something. Whatever the reason, we really don't need to assume that everything Varric says is gospel.

[Sejborg]

The Hierophant wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

To keep things simple it's better to imagine that Hawke meets Anders 3 months after Awakening's epilogue.

This is true. Problem is, he died in my epilogue.

Justice probably found his body in the keep, but it reaches wtf territory if you gave Anders to the Templars in the beginning.

But if Anders is dead and just inhabited by Justice, wouldn't the corpse then start to rot over the course of 6-7 years?

Modifié par Sejborg, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:11 .

[Teddie Sage]

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Wasn't Awakening happening a year or so after Origins' events? I'm not sure about this timeline.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Wynne one is the 'big' one as it's explicitly stated, although you only ever see it as a mage PC and it's a passing comment.

Are you sure it's for mage PCs only? I never played one, but I thought I had a chat with Wynne about it being a year since they've met.

Found it. It's dialogue from when Wynne joins the party post Ostagar and after Broken Circle, and does indeed require the PC to be a mage:

PC (if mage): It's been a while since I left the tower...
Wynne: It has been almost a year, hasn't it? Do you miss the tower at all?

The non-mage variant doesn't say how long it's been since they met at Ostagar, that I can see.

Note that the quote is almost a year, however, while people seem to be under the impression Wynne stated a full year (that's what I remembered too. Wynne also has a quote of talking to Jowan, the mage PC's friend, 'a year ago', which could be a reason for the confusion (also a mage-only piece of dialogue )).

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .