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[Wozearly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Add into that the fact that Awakening supposedly takes place 6 months after the Blight ended and the events of that expansion seem to point to it being at least a 2 month timespan of events, and it becomes even more confusing.

Awakening affects a far longer time period than that, unless the epilogue is completely discounted.

In order for Anders and Justice to be around in DA2, both their respective epilogues have to play out. We'll have to ignore the epilogue where Anders ends up with an arrow through his neck, stone cold dead, and refer that one back to the original point of the thread (or assume Anders somehow staged his death in order to make his escape).

Anders' range from having no real time impact to an impact of what is, presumably, several months (how long would it take to escape from the circle three times and be caught twice?)

Justice is actually more critical. Several of his endings indicates he remains in the order for many years before abandoning the body of Kristoff.

Unless spirits can posess multiple bodies at once (no indication of that so far - quite the reverse, in fact), that destroys all hope of coherence between the timeline of DA2 and DA:O. Anders could be in Kirkwall during the timeframe of Act 1, but not Justice as well.

DA2 actually required a fundamental retcon of a number of outcomes from across DA:O, many of which had to be discarded in order to make the story work and the right characters able to appear where and when the writers wanted them.

If I were to describe it cynically, I'd say the only way you could make sense of it is to assume that any time you read any epilogue or conclusion, kill a character (or characters) who might later be thought to be interesting, or hear any reference to timelines from anyone in the game, you have to accept that this is all absolutely irrelevant when it comes to a sequel, whether or not there is an import save function.

Not exactly a shining example of player agency, but not much we can do about it.

[Fast Jimmy]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Its still a great one. Honestly, in terms of continuity, overall story and moving the plot forward while referencing the original story, its one of the best trilogies of all time. They should use it as a teaching reference in film schools (I am not in the least bit being sarcastic here).

Really?

I never got into the third one. I loved the first one, liked the second one... and just could never dig the third one.

Interestingly enough, the second and third movies were originally conceived as one longer movie, but wound up being too long. Which can explain why events flow so seemleasly I suppose. 

I find the trilogy immensely satisfying. There is now 'down' time. In fact, the entire trilogy really takes place over the course of around two or three weeks, to Marty's point of view. Despite referencing, showing and traveling back to previous stories and times, they never step on their own toes, story-wise. There is a predictable formula; but it switches it up with very unique flavored in each movie. They deal with very large, moral and ethical issues involving power and responsibility, but in a format that isn't heavy-handed or unnatural in an otherwise family-friendly atmosphere. 

Like Insaid, it does an amazing amount of things right, especially for a movie trilogy. It re-invents itself without FEELING like it re-invents itself (or even needs to). It uses science but doesn't become
Bogged down by its own rules and or arbitrary laws. It has characters which have arching goals and lessons to learn, but doesn't make them stale or boring. 

Like Insaid  - it should be taught in film schools. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't know why it's assumed travel to Gwaren was quick. After all, the Warden takes a year (according to Allistair in DA:O) to gather the armies and defeat the Blight. It doesn't seem like you take the long doing much of anything in the Tower, Redcliffe (arguably one day for that whole quest), Haven and the Brecillian Forest (as the elves on the verge of death make a recovery by the time you cure the curse). So, barring The Deep Roads (which could take time, no doubt) and Denerim, which requires a few visits and a possible time skip before the Landsmeet), it would seem the majority of that year was spent traveling.

If travelling from Lothering to five other locations and spending (at most) a few weeks at way location winds up still taking a year, then why would we think that travel from Lothering to Gwalen, at the other end of Ferelden, would 'just take a few days?'

Not trying to say the timeline isn't a little FUBAR'd, but I think people are either underestimating the travel time required or are assuming Flemeth rode them in on her dragon back. Which would be awesome, actually.

[Rawgrim]

Its like this. The ceremony at the end of DA:O takes place a few months after the blight has ended. The events in DA:O spans over 1 year.Awakening takes place 6 months after the events in Origins. So lets say 8 months after the blight ended. The events in Awakening lasts for a few months as well. Now here is the problem. So Hawke arrives in Kirkwall when the Warden is about gathering allies to fight the blight. In chapter 1 of DA2, Hawke + Anders etc, hears news in taverns and such about the blight having just ended. This would be around the time of the ceremony in DA:O. 2 months for news to reach Kirkwall is a long time. It probably got there even sooner. So Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when the events of Awakening starts (even before they start, actually).

[Teddie Sage]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. The ceremony at the end of DA:O takes place a few months after the blight has ended. The events in DA:O spans over 1 year.Awakening takes place 6 months after the events in Origins. So lets say 8 months after the blight ended. The events in Awakening lasts for a few months as well. Now here is the problem. So Hawke arrives in Kirkwall when the Warden is about gathering allies to fight the blight. In chapter 1 of DA2, Hawke + Anders etc, hears news in taverns and such about the blight having just ended. This would be around the time of the ceremony in DA:O. 2 months for news to reach Kirkwall is a long time. It probably got there even sooner. So Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when the events of Awakening starts (even before they start, actually).

Then this somehow proves they messed up with the timeline... Just a little tweak here and there could arrange things.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:05 .

[robertthebard]

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. The ceremony at the end of DA:O takes place a few months after the blight has ended. The events in DA:O spans over 1 year.Awakening takes place 6 months after the events in Origins. So lets say 8 months after the blight ended. The events in Awakening lasts for a few months as well. Now here is the problem. So Hawke arrives in Kirkwall when the Warden is about gathering allies to fight the blight. In chapter 1 of DA2, Hawke + Anders etc, hears news in taverns and such about the blight having just ended. This would be around the time of the ceremony in DA:O. 2 months for news to reach Kirkwall is a long time. It probably got there even sooner. So Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when the events of Awakening starts (even before they start, actually).

Actually, what we hear is that the blight is over, not just over.  We of course hear this first in Varric's dialog with Cassandra.  We don't hear when in that year the Blight ended, it could have ended in the first month, or the last.  We don't know.  I do know that, when you're digging for intel on Anders, you get confronted by the Fereldens outside the shop, and they will praise whatever ruler, assuming you don't kill them, I often do.  This is the biggest assumption floating; that the Blight just ended before we pick back up into the story.  You are certainly free to believe that, but that doesn't mean that it's accurate.  We have no way to know, because we aren't told when in that time frame the Blight ended.

[ejoslin]

IIRC, on the Witch Hunt map, it says something, if Amaranthine was saved, that it's been 2 1/2 years since the mother was killed. And then on the Denerim map, it says it has been years since the blight ended. That makes me think, at bare minimum, the mother was defeated 6 months after the arch demon.

However, Oghren having a child in this period really makes things murky. Who knows how long dwarven gestation is, though. A dwarven noble can have a son and a dwarven casteless is an uncle/aunt between joining the warden and coming back to Orzammar.

Zevran may make a comment that he's been traveling with the warden for less than a year (the comment is something like, "If someone told me a year ago that...").  But Zevran doesn't get recruited until after one of the treaty quests is completed.

Anders could ALMOST work timeline wise, if the mother is killed 6 months after the blight is ended.  The ending celebration of DA:O would have to take place almost immediately after the arch demon was slain (because Oghren was talking about looking up Felsi) and that would put dwarven gestation about 3 or 4 months I would guess.

I actually am far more curious on how they're going to handle the Crows. So many people hate Zevran, yet for the people who didn't kill him, he's single-handedly waging war on them, and winning. Who is going to get ret-conned there? It's hard to believe that Antiva won't be dealt with at all in the series.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

[scootermcgaffin]

Another thing to remember is that Lothering isn't taken over by the Blight right after the Warden leaves the town. Lothering isn't lost until after the first treaty is completed.

[NedPepper]

If there was ever a reason to scrap the save import, this thread just proved it.

[ColGali]

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

Was it necessary with Zevran?

[Genshie]

ColGali wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

Was it necessary with Zevran?

Thought that was already explained several times over that was a bug.

[ColGali]

Genshie wrote...

ColGali wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

Was it necessary with Zevran?

Thought that was already explained several times over that was a bug.

Now I know, thx!

[DreamwareStudio]

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

This then begs the question: why should anyone play the game if a player's decisions get overridden? The fact this is a possibility makes the game-playing potentially moot, not to mention it breaks immersion for those who were playing DA 2 and killed Leliana in DA:O. I was not one of them but had I been, I would have quit playing DA 2. Such an experience and belittlement of decisions made would also have serious ramificatons on whether I returned to the series.

Modifié par google_calasade, 23 octobre 2012 - 04:20 .

[ejoslin]

ColGali wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I feel this point needs to be made: if there was an option to kill off a character or a companion, I feel it is best that said companion 'stay' dead and not be written back.

The point has been made-- numerous times. I understand there are some folks who fret a great deal when something they've done (such as killing a character) results in the decision being hand-waved... no matter how it's explained (or is yet to be explained). Understanding that, it is still going to happen from time to time when we deem it necessary.

Was it necessary with Zevran?

Oddly, it may end up being necessary.  Zevran is a perfect example, in fact, that someone is most likely going to get a retcon further in the series.

Yes, I get that many people hate him and killed him.  However, he was given a fairly interesting story arc via his DA2 codex for people who left him alive.  He waged war against the Crows, and by the time you meet him in DA2, it's apparent he's winning and the Crows are falling apart because of his efforts.

It's hard to believe that the Crows and Antiva won't be dealt with at some point in the series.  So will what Zevran did be totally ignored, made irrelevant, or will it be treated like Zevran did this no matter what happened with him in DAO?

Edit: I realize that his appearance in DA2 was a bug for people who killed him.  But it's hard to believe that the letter about him undermining the Crows would be nothing more than a nod to his fans -- you would think that the Antivan Crows would have some bearing on future aspects of the universe.  And there were some DAO endings (I know, heresay and rumor) that have him leading the Crows which really is supported by the DA2 letter.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 octobre 2012 - 07:24 .

[ziloe]

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Wasn't Awakening set 2 years after Origins?

[Rune-Chan]

ziloe wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Wasn't Awakening set 2 years after Origins?

No. 6 months.

[scootermcgaffin]

ziloe wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when he is in Amaranthine too. So Hawke meets him before he dies at Vigil`s Keep...go figure.

I've seen this supposition before, and I'm uncertain how someone arrives at it. With a year's jump after Hawke arrives at Kirkwall, how is that the same time period of Awakening, exactly?

Wasn't Awakening set 2 years after Origins?

Witch Hunt is the one that was two years later, I believe.

[LobselVith8]

ziloe wrote...

Wasn't Awakening set 2 years after Origins? 

Six months, although people account for the other events that transpire before Awakening as the reason why they feel there is a discrepency between Anders being in Kirkwall, and Anders being in Ferelden (not to mention the fact that Oghren has a child with Felsi prior to the start of Awakening).

The events of Origins took place over a year, since Wynne tells the mage protagonist that it's been a full year since he left the Circle of Ferelden. The royal ceremony where the Hero of Ferelden can receive a royal boon (after the defeat of the Archdemon Urthemiel) takes place a few months later, according to the developers. There's a six month period between the royal ceremony, and the initial events of Awakening.

[Rawgrim]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Wasn't Awakening set 2 years after Origins? 

Six months, although people account for the other events that transpire before Awakening as the reason why they feel there is a discrepency between Anders being in Kirkwall, and Anders being in Ferelden (not to mention the fact that Oghren has a child with Felsi prior to the start of Awakening).

The events of Origins took place over a year, since Wynne tells the mage protagonist that it's been a full year since he left the Circle of Ferelden. The royal ceremony where the Hero of Ferelden can receive a royal boon (after the defeat of the Archdemon Urthemiel) takes place a few months later, according to the developers. There's a six month period between the royal ceremony, and the initial events of Awakening.

DA:O lasts for 1 year. Lothering happens very early in that year. Lets say after 3 months. 9 months + 2 months for the ceremony, then another 6 months til Awakening begins, and the events of Awakening lasted for 2 months (I think). Meaning that Anders shouldn`t be anywhere near Kirkwall by the time he meets Hawke.So in my playthrough, Anders dies in awakening around the same time he is with Hawke in the Deep Roads.

[UpiH]

A horse, a horse, a fandom for a dead horse!

Besides, who told you when the baby of Oghren and Felsi was conceived? Wynne's delirious anyway, being a straw granny written by a young woman, her nightmare, I s'pose. Was ever a woman in this humour woo'd?

Maybe Dunk's training took a coupla months before Ostagar, too. So many possibilities...

Modifié par UpiH, 23 octobre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Todd23]

Except Anders.

[Todd23]

Nizaris1 wrote...

ARCHDEMONS COMIN BACK FOLKS

Yay!

better an Archdemon than a crazy woman....

[UpiH]

Todd23 wrote...

Except Anders.

You don't have to recruit him at all.

Anyways, you people are always whining about a game being linear or railroaded as you tend to say. What's the moaning when it is not? Eat a cake and save the cake?

[Rawgrim]

UpiH wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Except Anders.

You don't have to recruit him at all.

Anyways, you people are always whining about a game being linear or railroaded as you tend to say. What's the moaning when it is not? Eat a cake and save the cake?

You are forced to recruit him, due to plot...

[Rawgrim]

robertthebard wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Its like this. The ceremony at the end of DA:O takes place a few months after the blight has ended. The events in DA:O spans over 1 year.Awakening takes place 6 months after the events in Origins. So lets say 8 months after the blight ended. The events in Awakening lasts for a few months as well. Now here is the problem. So Hawke arrives in Kirkwall when the Warden is about gathering allies to fight the blight. In chapter 1 of DA2, Hawke + Anders etc, hears news in taverns and such about the blight having just ended. This would be around the time of the ceremony in DA:O. 2 months for news to reach Kirkwall is a long time. It probably got there even sooner. So Anders is actually in Kirkwall at the same time when the events of Awakening starts (even before they start, actually).

Actually, what we hear is that the blight is over, not just over.  We of course hear this first in Varric's dialog with Cassandra.  We don't hear when in that year the Blight ended, it could have ended in the first month, or the last.  We don't know.  I do know that, when you're digging for intel on Anders, you get confronted by the Fereldens outside the shop, and they will praise whatever ruler, assuming you don't kill them, I often do.  This is the biggest assumption floating; that the Blight just ended before we pick back up into the story.  You are certainly free to believe that, but that doesn't mean that it's accurate.  We have no way to know, because we aren't told when in that time frame the Blight ended.

Its simple math. The events of DA:O + Awakening is roughly 1 year storyline in DA:O. Lothering going down around the 3rd month. Meaning we have 9 months before the archdemon dies. Then we have 2 months untill the celebration at the end. We are now on 12 months. Awakening begins 6 months after that, and lasts for 2 months.

Awakening ends 20 months after Hawke leaves Lothering. Lets say Hawke spends a month traveling from Ferelden to Kirkwall (and that means he travels very very slowlt) add one year to that and we have 13 months. Varric specifies that the story picks up pretty much exactly one year after Hawke joins the mercenaries etc. Meaning he runs into Anders 7 months before the end of Awakening. Thats a pretty big gap.