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Mages who defy conventions


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#1
Abraham_uk

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If I'm correct, the most popular mage builds are

Destroyer: Primal + Elemental + (either Force Mage or Blood Mage)
Master of nuking enemies clean of the face of the Earth, with an element for every type of enemy.

Cleric: Creation + Spirit Healer + Any other skill tree.
Will keep your team alive through the toughest of challenges, but reliant on the rest of the party.



I was wondering about Arcane, Spirit and Entrophy.
How do I use these often ignored skill trees in battle?

I'm thinking of making

Merril a Destroyer.
Anders a Cleric
And Hawke as a Crafty Mage

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:19 .


#2
Abraham_uk

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So what can you tell me about

Arcane
Spirit
and Entrophy


What roles do these skill trees follow in general?
Are they all debuffing skills that make it easier for warriors and rogues to tear enemies apart?


Oh and I'm thinking of using Walking Bomb (my favourite spell in Dragon Age Origins)

Too bad there isn't a tech or biotic ability in Mass Effect like Walking Bomb.
I guess sticky grenades and scorpion come close.



Also regarding the staff which is quite an effective melee and ranged weapon (as I gathered from the Demo).
Does strength stat improve melee damage of the staff?
Does magic stat improve ranged damage of the staff?
Also do you get that staff/spear/sword weapon that Hawke uses to fight that Qunari in the trailer?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 18 octobre 2012 - 06:16 .


#3
Abraham_uk

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So what do you think?

#4
mr_afk

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In terms of gameplay, there's a slight problem in the idea of making some sort of specialised sub-class. Unless you're roleplaying, the optimal build is almost always going to have some dps potential. While healers might seem necessary or useful if you play with one, pure healers are actually significantly reducing your party dps, extending fights, and resulting in everyone receiving more damage and requiring more healing. The same applies to a 'crafty mage' (or a tank for that matter). Additionally, hawke has the greatest dps potential (more attribute points and ability points available, access to stat modifying clothing), so it's a massive waste to use a non-dps hawke.

So I would say that your idea of making Anders a pure healer and hawke a debuffer/only have single target dps isn't going to be very effective on the gameplay side of things.

But if your main question is 'how to use arcane, spirit, and entropy'...
For spirit, you can either drop 5 or so points into it and pick up spirit bolt and walking bomb (which make very effective disorient CCCs) or 8 or so points to get spirit mastery, which is useful in a crit-mage build using Malcolm's honor (e.g. my crit-mage build)
Spirit mastery only increases the damage of your spirit bolts and auto-attacks (with spirit staves), so if you're primarily using walking bomb there's no need for it.

Arcane has a few useful abilities, but I would give them to merrill as it's kind of a waste on hawke. Barrier can be used to make characters at low health invincible for a few seconds, giving them the time they need to chug a potion or get healed. It's particularly useful for a reaver hawke or perhaps some sort of melee walking bomb detonator setup, but it does help considerably with survivability.
Crushing prison is one of the most powerful stagger CCCs, dealing high damage and paralysing the target (although it is single target).
All the rest are fluff, although mind blast can potentially destealth assassins, elemental weapons increase autoattack dps, and arcane shield increase your parties resistances and defence.

Finally entropy. I could spiel on about how useless it is, but if you search through the forums you'll probably find one of the older threads discussing it. Besides one-point into the debuff (hex of torment) and perhaps another two into horror (for single target crowd-control), it's pretty much useless.
Sleep is unreliable and unlikely to work on higher ranked enemies (the ones you actually need to crowd control), you're better off killing enemies than trying to debuff their attack with a misdirection hex, and entropic cloud is unreliable (and hard to use if I remember rightly)
If you were really desperate to use the entropy tree, an upgraded hex of torment can be pretty devastating (especially paired with brittles), but there are simply more practical ways to spend points just for a few seconds of auto-crits.


As for your other questions:
All staves can be used in melee but both the ranged and melee damage is only determined by magic. The staff of parthalan and several other staves do have blades on one end, but it's mostly cosmetic.
The staff of parthalan required unlocking by signing up for a bioware newsletter. I'm not sure if you can still get it via that method, but if you're a PC player you can simply use to the console to 'additem' it

#5
Abraham_uk

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Thanks Mr AFK.


How about this build?

Using Hawke with Elemental and Primal along with Force Magic (I am not very fond of Blood Magic)
Using Anders for Creation, Vengenance and Arcane
Using Varric as a DPS archer (he has some area of effect abilities)
and finally Fenris for his badass sword rocking Vanguard, 2 Hand and his unique magic/sword abilities.

#6
mr_afk

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Are you intending to play on nightmare?
Elemental + force magic are solid options but they do cause considerable friendly-fire issues. Primal is a little better in this regards. It's probably also recommended to get haste so you can use dual haste. You can generally specialise in more than just 3 trees so a few extra abilities here and there should be fine.

If you're going to be dropping firestorms on people with hawke, there's no point point skimping out for Anders. But yeah, using vengeance is very useful for the damage boost and cooldown boost (allowing perma-haste), and heroic aura/haste is almost a necessity. I would probably go elemental rather than arcane, since aoe damage is probably going to be more useful than single target, but it's up to you really.

In a mage setup Varric can be used to setup disorient CCCs via fatiguing fog and confusion. It'll help your stone fists deal more damage (and spirit bolts/walking bombs if you get them). But yeah, generally speaking it's probably best to focus on his personal tree and other passives and sustains to turn him into an autoattacking machinegun.

On nightmare I wouldn't recommend fenris (he causes too much friendly-fire and would get in the way of all your spells). On lower difficulties almost any setup should work, so once again it's up to you. Gameplay-wise Aveline will probably be more effective since she can do disorient CCCs and is better at setting up staggers, but with sunder fixed fenris should be able to have a reasonable stagger rate.

Really, I think you should just experiment with whatever setup you think up - and respec or reload if it doesn't really work out as you intended. Even on nightmare most setups should be somewhat viable.

#7
Abraham_uk

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What does CCC mean?

I know CC is crowd control.

#8
mr_afk

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you're new to dragonage 2 right?

CCC stands for cross class combo, a new system implemented in DA2.
Basically each class can set up a status via certain upgraded abilities which certain abilities from other classes can capitalise on (extra damage etc).
Warriors can stagger enemies, rogues disorient, and mages brittle

http://dragonage.wik...oss-class_combo

Modifié par mr_afk, 20 octobre 2012 - 03:46 .


#9
Abraham_uk

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That is cool man.
Thanks for that.