232 réponses à ce sujet

[angie_e45]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

No offense, but you picked some really bad movies. I haven't seen Gladiator and Braveheart, but I would pretty much never use the other ones for any sort of analysis. Movies like Apocalypse Now, the Seven Samurai, or Yojimbo (or the almost shot for shot western 'remake' A Fistful of Dollars) would probably work better.  Maybe throw in Horatio Hornblower for good measure.

I will let you slide for I Am Legend and 300. But Terminator 2? Are you mad? If you didn't like it then fine, but don't go calling that a bad movie. I have never ever heard anyone bad mouth that film until now.

It is gimicky as hell.  A little kid teaching a killer robot to have feelings and give a thumbs up?  Please. That **** is lamer than Ewoks.  It has some of the most iconic action scenes ever, but the story is just so full of cheese I can't believe I ever loved that film.  Thanks to nostalgia I can still enjoy it thoroughly, but I would hate it if I saw it today.

I'm surprised to see you think that about Terminator 2. That is one of my favorite films and you are obviously in the minority in your opinion of it. Please don't call it a bad movie. It was a good movie, just not a movie you like. I love the dynamic between John Connor and the Terminator. Together they were like a strange father and son. It struck me when Sarah Connor was thinking about the two of them together and she mentioned that of all the would be fathers that came and went the killer robot was the only one that measured up. I think of Terminator and a disfunctional family story. You many think of it as Gimicy now, but it wasn't at the time.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Hudathan wrote...

Who said Terminator 2 wasn't good?!

As epic and iconic as it was, I lol'd hard watching it the other day when they had the motorcycle/big rig chase, you can see every time they switch from stuntman to Ahnold.

[DWH1982]

No, I wanted a triumphant ending where he lives as a possibility. Because it's consistent.

The other two games had that at least as a possibility. The ME1 ending is always triumphant. The ME2 ending can be bittersweet, but if you do everything right you can walk away from a suicide mission with the entire squad alive.

Mass Effect doesn't feel right without the triumphant ending. What they did might have been okay for something else, but not Mass Effect.

There still really isn't a triumphant ending, even with the EC, which is why I might still just avoid the endings.

[angie_e45]

I agree with most of what you said about the death of Shepard. I hate the way it is a compromise with the Reapers instead of a true defeat of them. If you destroy the Reapers it is because they essentially let you destroy them.

I disagree with the part about the grieving love interest at the end. I don't think that matters much. The problem with ME3 as it relates to that is that Shepard already lost his/her love interest. Shepard died for two years and his/her lover mourned him/her. Then you get back together, if you chose to play it like that, and Shepard dies again. It is like a cruel joke.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

But the goal has always been to make games more and more "cinematic" right?

Yep. And Bio gets to pick the genre.

[Shinobu]

Nicely done, OP.

grey_wind wrote...

A BIG reason Shepard's death fails on an emotional level is because Shepard was never even a character to begin with. He's an avatar for the player to experience the world through. The only way to actually make the death of such a "character" emotional is to show the effects it has on the people you actually cared about.
This is where DAO succeeded, showing your party mourning over your loss and what they thought of you after you died. ME3 failed here entirely by virtue of the endings cutting to black about 5 seconds after you decide what colour the galaxy will glow in.

Also this.

[BearlyHere]

Shinobu wrote...

Nicely done, OP.

grey_wind wrote...

A BIG reason Shepard's death fails on an emotional level is because Shepard was never even a character to begin with. He's an avatar for the player to experience the world through. The only way to actually make the death of such a "character" emotional is to show the effects it has on the people you actually cared about.
This is where DAO succeeded, showing your party mourning over your loss and what they thought of you after you died. ME3 failed here entirely by virtue of the endings cutting to black about 5 seconds after you decide what colour the galaxy will glow in.

Also this.

And this is why the ending fails for so many players. Bioware forgot that we were writing the story too, and that we wanted a real say in Shepard's fate. They're not emotionally involved with the character, because he/she is merely a foil for the characters that the Bioware team does care about, such as Liara and Joker. 

[robertthebard]

If only the Legend Save was at the beam in London, I'd be a happy camper. I can't get past that DeM to worry about SC. I find my death at the beam to be very satisfying though: I'm going to stop the Reapers, or die trying. I died trying...

[soulstriker09]

 "I can't lose you again..."

Godammit, sorry EDI, sorry Geth.
Or maybe I'll just start a playthrough where my shep doesn't reunite with her LI because she knows she's not coming back. Oooohhh the drama.


I agree a lot with you OP, but maybe this happened because this is a video game and not a film? I recently read an article about why video games don't translate well into films because they're essentially different types of media, and writers tackle the two things in different ways.

[blueumi]

soulstriker09 wrote...

 "I can't lose you again..."

Godammit, sorry EDI, sorry Geth.
Or maybe I'll just start a playthrough where my shep doesn't reunite with her LI because she knows she's not coming back. Oooohhh the drama.


I agree a lot with you OP, but maybe this happened because this is a video game and not a film? I recently read an article about why video games don't translate well into films because they're essentially different types of media, and writers tackle the two things in different ways.

thats the point when you watch a film you just sit there with a game you have to earn the ending you see and most games know to give you an ending that makes sense and makes you feel like it was worth all the time and effort to see it

casey hudson seems to want it to be a movie more then a game and thats not good the two are not the same never have been never will be

if i'm honest that ending would still suck in a movie and i'm sure the mass effect movie wont have that ending not if bioware has any sense

I really think I would be infuriated if the movie has a better ending then mass effect 3 but it would have to go a long way to have a worse one

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

But the goal has always been to make games more and more "cinematic" right?

Yep. And Bio gets to pick the genre.

I'd rather they finished one genre before starting another.

[dorktainian]

maybe bio should just finish me3 first.

on sheps death it didnt matter because despite all the choices we'd made prior to that, our control of sheps actions was taken from us and put into the hands of someone who didn't have a clue what he was doing, and thus railroaded him into choices we would never have made. He died a whimpering disgrace taking advice from someone he would never have believed - based on previous gameplay.

our shepards would have never listened to this lazy plot hole filled star brat.

his choices - not ours. Thats why. The ending was forced on us.

still he got the chance to destroy (or did he?) the reapers.

[AlanC9]

Nobody forces Shepard to listen. If your Shep wants to go full retard, just shoot the kid.

[Necrotron]

Because he dies after being pitfully forced to agree to a one of three solutions created by the main villain in order to resolve the main villain's problem (which may very likely not even be real), in order to stop that villain from killing everyone.

There wasn't really anything heroic about that ending, but at least the Reapers were telling the truth for once. Go figure.

[Necrotron]

blueumi wrote...

[casey hudson seems to want it to be a movie more then a game and thats not good the two are not the same never have been never will be

if i'm honest that ending would still suck in a movie and i'm sure the mass effect movie wont have that ending not if bioware has any sense

I really think I would be infuriated if the movie has a better ending then mass effect 3 but it would have to go a long way to have a worse one

Yeah, I really wouldn't have cared very much if a movie had a crappy ending.  Oh well, I invested 2 hours into that and never have to think about it again.

For a 100 hour+ video game where the story is happening to 'my' character that I personally played and invested care creating, fashioning, and making them into who they are, that's a different story. 

Modifié par Bathaius, 19 octobre 2012 - 09:09 .

[Sirsmirkalot]

Shepard's death felt ham fisted and forced. I thought the sacrifice of my volunteer in XCOM was far more meaningful and emotional than Shepard's.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 19 octobre 2012 - 09:10 .

[Reorte]

It could've worked in a film (has done in the past, there's nothing wrong with the concept in a film) if it was written a million times better but in a game that's got good enough characters and, because of player involvement instead of just passive watching lets you actually get a bit of an attachment to them it's cruel. Due to that involvement I end up feeling exactly like I would if it had happened to a real friend (although not as severely of course, I'm not completely out of touch with reality).

The fact that the circumstances were completely and utterly moronic doesn't help either.

[wright1978]

I'm very against Shep's forced death because

A) In a choice based game to railroad such a fate is utterly terrible. Near as bad is to have one variant where Shep lives but put zero effort into providing exposition/closure for that variant while offering reams of exposition/closure for death scenarios.

Killing off your protaganist, then bringing them back to life only to kill them again shortly after is just cheap imo.

[Jadebaby]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I hated the death because it didn't feel like a sacrifice, it felt like suicide based on an assumption.

It was like a game show, kill yourself in one of three ways, but choose wisely, if you don't have enough points saved up you'll destroy the Earth!

lol qft

[chmarr]

yup, thats the truth and guess what.......... its fact.

i agree

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

chmarr wrote...

yup, thats the truth and guess what.......... its fact.

i agree

Epic avatar is epic

Also to what are you refering?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 20 octobre 2012 - 07:19 .

[Galifreya]

What a wonderful OP. Bravo! Exactly.

[jpraelster93]

Shepard didnt die in mine

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

jpraelster93 wrote...

Shepard didnt die in mine

Yeah I should have turned my console off after Anderson died too.