232 réponses à ce sujet

[jakal66]

OperatingWookie wrote...

In regards to Shepard_Alive.bik, it could be Shepard's last breath before death, one last breath of life before succumbing to injuries, knowing that their mission was accomplished, once and for all.

yeah well, if that was what they intended to show it was the STUPIDEST way to do it...written by a monkey...that sequence provokes exactly the oposite.

I'll grant you it could be that but seriiously, would you write something like that if you wanted to portray what you just commented.I mean it makes no sense...there are at least 20 ideas in my head of writing something like what you expressed without insulting the main character and/or the fans.

The truth is what I said many times, they intended the scene to give hope, but they didn't back it up God knows why...

My guess is they chickened out, had they said he lived people would have raised hell for an expansion or something...so they left it ambiguous.

I mean they cannot waste more time, they gotta sell the DLC, the EC put them back a lot. Cowards no matter how you look at it. Had they wanted him dead or alive...cowards.

[Spectre Impersonator]

You've got it right. They were utter ****** who were more afraid to give the character of Shepard a future than kill him/her.

[Battlebloodmage]

I don't like Shepard's death because my Shepard had promised Kaidan that he will return to him safely. ME is a game about choices, so there should be a choice where you survive the ordeal. There are 2 other endings in which Shepard is dead. There isn't a need for a third one.

[Iakus]

jakal66 wrote...


I'll grant you it could be that but seriiously, would you write something like that if you wanted to portray what you just commented.I mean it makes no sense...there are at least 20 ideas in my head of writing something like what you expressed without insulting the main character and/or the fans.

The truth is what I said many times, they intended the scene to give hope, but they didn't back it up God knows why...

My guess is they chickened out, had they said he lived people would have raised hell for an expansion or something...so they left it ambiguous.

I mean they cannot waste more time, they gotta sell the DLC, the EC put them back a lot. Cowards no matter how you look at it. Had they wanted him dead or alive...cowards.

Bang-up job in avoiding that, huh?  

[jakal66]

iakus wrote...

jakal66 wrote...


I'll grant you it could be that but seriiously, would you write something like that if you wanted to portray what you just commented.I mean it makes no sense...there are at least 20 ideas in my head of writing something like what you expressed without insulting the main character and/or the fans.

The truth is what I said many times, they intended the scene to give hope, but they didn't back it up God knows why...

My guess is they chickened out, had they said he lived people would have raised hell for an expansion or something...so they left it ambiguous.

I mean they cannot waste more time, they gotta sell the DLC, the EC put them back a lot. Cowards no matter how you look at it. Had they wanted him dead or alive...cowards.

Bang-up job in avoiding that, huh?  

Hahahaha, yeah that sequence was doomed as failure...I jsut don't know what these guys were thinking.And they had the chance to redeem themselves in the EC...and failed to do so, AGAIN?

Who makes decisions there.. person should be questioned...or at least ask for feed back---

[rekn2]

jakal66 wrote...

iakus wrote...

jakal66 wrote...


I'll grant you it could be that but seriiously, would you write something like that if you wanted to portray what you just commented.I mean it makes no sense...there are at least 20 ideas in my head of writing something like what you expressed without insulting the main character and/or the fans.

The truth is what I said many times, they intended the scene to give hope, but they didn't back it up God knows why...

My guess is they chickened out, had they said he lived people would have raised hell for an expansion or something...so they left it ambiguous.

I mean they cannot waste more time, they gotta sell the DLC, the EC put them back a lot. Cowards no matter how you look at it. Had they wanted him dead or alive...cowards.

Bang-up job in avoiding that, huh?  

Hahahaha, yeah that sequence was doomed as failure...I jsut don't know what these guys were thinking.And they had the chance to redeem themselves in the EC...and failed to do so, AGAIN?

Who makes decisions there.. person should be questioned...or at least ask for feed back---

it wasnt peer reviewed, thats been said by many people on their team, it shows

[Spectre Impersonator]

rekn2 wrote...
it wasnt peer reviewed, thats been said by many people on their team, it shows

Casey and Mac cooped themselves up in a room and didn't get any input on their insanity. I'm sure the majority of Bioware employees know we're right but are afraid to speak out about it because they like having jobs. 

[rekn2]

JohnShepard12 wrote...

rekn2 wrote...
it wasnt peer reviewed, thats been said by many people on their team, it shows

Casey and Mac cooped themselves up in a room and didn't get any input on their insanity. I'm sure the majority of Bioware employees know we're right but are afraid to speak out about it because they like having jobs. 

a few of them let slip the info via twitter

[008Zulu]

I get that Shepard's death was supposed to have emotional gravitas, the strongest sacrificing herself/himself to save the galaxy. But how the scene was written, the dialogue of Glowbrat, made it seem like the little punk talked Shepard in to committing suicide rather than a conscious decision to save the galaxy.

Heroes give their lives to save the day, they don't commit suicide.

[78stonewobble]

Personally I wouldn't have minded if some or all of the team including shepard died to save the galaxy.

I did/do have issues with the logical rationale for the ending (starchilds explanations/reasoning). It severely detracted from the importance of any sacrifice and the gravity of it.

The original ending cinematic did a very poor job of converying what I had just chosen would mean for squadmates (people you bonded with during 3 games) and the rest of the galaxy.

It felt like gladiator with 3 different endings consisting of 3 different "dictators" taking over the empire afterwards, no cut of the protagonist seeing his family in the afterlife and a short line saying the roman empire ended in xyz year.

[NovaM4]

I have beaten Mass Effect 3 and replayed the whole series 3 times. I felt like I was Shepard. This is my game. And i kind of love Liara in real life (I know this sounds weird.) I still do. And i miss her. That is why i hated the ending to much. I know MY Shepard is still alive and Liara is too. But i just want a Cutscene that shows me Shepard and Liara with their blue baby's. I know it can't be changed anymore. I stopped dreaming... I just hope that ME4 Will make things better. And if Shepard isn't in ME4. I have to deal with that and get over it. I know it is going to be hard.. But maybe the main character in ME4 is even better. 

The ending made me feel bad a couple of months.

I guess i have to wish Bioware goodluck with making ME4. I hoped they have learned of their mistakes.

[Tank207]

Shepard dying honestly never really bothered me. I went into Mass Effect 3 fully expecting Shepard to die at the end. I guess I watch too many war movies.

I probably would have been disappointed if the series ended without Shepard having to make the ultimate sacrifice to stop and unstoppable enemy.

What I didn't like about the initial endings was how you got an explosion, a crashed Normandy, a black screen and then credits. Then they had the balls to demand that I buy DLC. THAT pissed me off... we didn't even get an epilogue explaining what happened to the Galaxy afterwards. Until the Extended Cut came out, it looked like the Galaxy--and most importantly, my crew--was well and truly screwed.

Modifié par Tank207, 21 octobre 2012 - 02:03 .

[Mixon]

fil009 wrote...

Makes lots sense and a quality write up.

Mass Effect the game with a so much strong element as Indoctrination and it just can not be so that Shepard was not indoctrinated... 
+1 for topic starter.

[3DandBeyond]

My biggest issues with this idea that the hero must self-destruct have more to do with this story than any other. However, taking a hint from what is popular and what isn't in other media (since ME3 borrows heavily from some), blockbusters usually don't kill off the hero. Or if they do it is for a clear purpose based upon something the hero must do, something that makes sense since it will save (unequivocally) all of those left behind. And the hero has a choice to save him/herself but chooses otherwise.

ME3 veered from ME in saying Shepard can't live (or is left in an ambiguous state) and cannot fight to change that outcome. Nothing in the game/story prepared us for this. And nothing game-like was done here to allow us to do anything about it. Nothing story-wise was created to allow us to change the outcome. No matter what you do, once you hit a certain EMS point, it's 3 choices, no getting out of it, or refuse and game over. Your actions are not at all connected to these decisions.

Movies and books, even those where heroes die (and often those that do have failed as people-they're only true return to being heroes are the final acts they commit), do so with a purpose and clearly show a connection between the altruistic good of the act and the sacrifice of the hero. These are story formulas. A conflicted hero becomes the forever hero by dying to save all. An unconflicted one becomes the forever hero by acting to save all and is rewarded by being with those s/he loves.

If a true always hero character should die, that hero must know why. And it must be logical and it must make sense. It must also have forethought. Given the explanations for these choices, making one is more of a renegade act, because there is just not enough known about how and what things will happen to say these are good things.

Shepard is the perpetual hero, unless a renegade. This bears out the shallow nature of the endings. The conflicted more ruthless hero should be more prone to die so as to find redemption. The perpetual should only die when there's no other way out to do real good. Otherwise, there should be ways for both to accomplish the goal and live.

[ruggly]

I expected Shepard to die in the end, but not like that...never like that. I figured that if I worked hard enough, did everything possible (though I eventually said "screw this" to the fetch quests), then I would get a "perfect" ending. The original ending just left me feeling so empty.

edit: though I did choose destroy, so I got that tiny clip of so called "hope"

Modifié par ruggly, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:19 .

[Pheonix57]

Grubas wrote...

I miss Karp 

Exactly. I remember being happy when he was on the team.

Modifié par Pheonix57, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:22 .

[ziyon conqueror]

I could not tolerate Shepard's death since I worked so hard to save the commander and the squad in ME2. I thought we could beat the impossible, to beat the Reapers and go on home, reunite with LI. But no, it'd had to be like that live action Battleship Yamato where the hero sacrifices himself (while the hero in that movie did die heroically and his legacy lives on). We must continue fighting for a better ending, where the possibilities can be endless based on our conviction.

[BearlyHere]

NovaM4 wrote...

I have beaten Mass Effect 3 and replayed the whole series 3 times. I felt like I was Shepard. This is my game. And i kind of love Liara in real life (I know this sounds weird.) I still do. And i miss her. That is why i hated the ending to much. I know MY Shepard is still alive and Liara is too. But i just want a Cutscene that shows me Shepard and Liara with their blue baby's. I know it can't be changed anymore. I stopped dreaming... I just hope that ME4 Will make things better. And if Shepard isn't in ME4. I have to deal with that and get over it. I know it is going to be hard.. But maybe the main character in ME4 is even better. 

The ending made me feel bad a couple of months.

I guess i have to wish Bioware goodluck with making ME4. I hoped they have learned of their mistakes.

Sadly, they don't act like they've learned a thing. My current theory is they want to drive away the RPG players so they can make 4 a shooter because they think that's the fastest way to make money.

[Arxduke]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I don't like Shepard's death because my Shepard had promised Kaidan that he will return to him safely. ME is a game about choices, so there should be a choice where you survive the ordeal. There are 2 other endings in which Shepard is dead. There isn't a need for a third one.

I hear you. I promised Kaidan, and given the outcomes, it is very disheartening. We never even know if Kaidan's family ends up alright, what happened to his father, his students. Nothing. There are tons of info we learn about the squad members throughout the game, and none of these are answered in the end. Adding to the unsatisfying death ending.

[Iakus]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I don't like Shepard's death because my Shepard had promised Kaidan that he will return to him safely. ME is a game about choices, so there should be a choice where you survive the ordeal. There are 2 other endings in which Shepard is dead. There isn't a need for a third one.

Shepard:  Are you ready?
Ash:  I'm ready
Shepard:  Then let's get it done, and go home
Ash:  Aye aye, captain

:(

[Icinix]

Personal Breakdown : Because Shepard dies for a ghostly image with 30 seconds screen time taking the form of a child rammed down our throats for the game for no apparent reason beyond "OMG! SYMBOLOGY! YOU NO UNDERSTANDA!" and to completely and utterly destroy the Reapers as big bad scary monsters and cause a million gamers the world over to stare blankly at the screen and in unison say 'da fuq'.

[Zooter]

iakus wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I don't like Shepard's death because my Shepard had promised Kaidan that he will return to him safely. ME is a game about choices, so there should be a choice where you survive the ordeal. There are 2 other endings in which Shepard is dead. There isn't a need for a third one.

Shepard:  Are you ready?
Ash:  I'm ready
Shepard:  Then let's get it done, and go home
Ash:  Aye aye, captain

:(

 

Tali: Come back to me. 
Me: I will, I promise.
Bioware: lol nope! problem? *insert troll face* 
Me: :crying:

[Iakus]

Wonder if anyone's catalogued all the "promises" top return Shepard makes, to illustrate our disgust at the ending?

[Biotic Sage]

The Matrix Revolutions was a truly horrendous film. However, none of its horrendousness is due to Neo's death at the end. Sadly, it has a myriad of other aspects that step up to create its horrendoussness.

Did you forget about Saving Private Ryan? Children of Men (which I hate but everyone seems to consider a great film)?  Troy?

The point is, if sacrifice fits the theme, then a hero's death, a hero's sacrifice has literary significance within the context of the narrative. Shepard is the embodiment of sacrifice. No matter how you play Shepard, he is always sacrificing. He sacrifices his body, his own personal needs and desires, and most of all his time and energy into saving the galaxy and all sentient life. When you have a character that is the embodiment of sacrifice (like Shepard or Batman), then a hero's death is a perfectly acceptable and more than that it is a poeticallly sound epilogue. Sometimes you can subvert this (like in the Dark Knight Rises), but by subverting it you must do so in a way that acknowledges that it is being subverted and thus create a new poetic salience. In the case of the Dark Knight Rises, they chose to focus on Bruce Wayne himself and how he rose above his pain and anger and learned to let go of Batman. He was able to find some personal happiness, and this goal was a theme throughout the entire trilogy. Shepard dying makes complete sense within the parameters of the story told in Mass Effect, sorry.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 22 octobre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Zooter]

When Tali said come back to me, I honestly was thinking to myself I'm Shepard there is no doubt I'm coming back. But we all saw how that turned out.

Modifié par Zooter, 22 octobre 2012 - 04:45 .