272 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Wait, what's that? Control and Synthesis turn them into good guys? They were mindless slaves of the Catalyst all along?

Why is that even bad?

Funny, the Reapers get used again.  Never truly being "free".

[Xilizhra]

spirosz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wait, what's that? Control and Synthesis turn them into good guys? They were mindless slaves of the Catalyst all along?

Why is that even bad?

Funny, the Reapers get used again.  Never truly being "free".

Well, I could do Synthesis if you really wanted me to.

[Maxster_]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

They make it our problem when they sign up to help the Reapers kill off every other species in the name of temporary self-preservation. They're the equivalent of a human who sells out other humans in the processing camp to buy themselves a little more time, all while knowing that they, too, will be inevitably disposed of.

Except they were forced to that point not by the Reapers, but by the Quarians. Not that anyone ever negotiated anything with them before Shepard.

Not a smartest thing to do, but they faced certain death from Quarians. They never considered equals to organic, and they knew that. They now that by losing to Quarians they will be annihilated.

So no, your assertion is not so close to truth, as you think.

Also, using same logic and then choosing anything other than a Reject(or Alt+F4), makes you a hypocrite

P.S. They also willingly joined allied forces afterwards.

They never negotiated with anyone either. Legion tells us they never even tried. They just occupied the one planet their creators were capable of living on and shot anyone who came near them. It'd be like if Skynet (which was also attacked first) wiped out 99% of the human race, then relented at the last minute, content to let us languish in space for the foreseeable future.

Also, pre-upgrade, they're not equal to organics. They're an immortal gestalt entity - in accordance with Legion's wishes, I don't anthropomorphize them. Each runtime is non-sentient, making each of them akin to a single neuron in one giant brain. The Quarians who first attacked them were wrong to do so, but they're all dead. Everything the Geth have done is still on them. Siding with the Reapers is only the latest thing I'm holding them to account for.

I'd be more open to peace if the Reaper code were off the table, but after what happened with the IFF, I'd trust that code about as far as I can throw Heretic Station. It's only safe to give it to them if you metagame anyway.

And?
I do not see a problem here. Every race in ME universe committed a lot of horrific things, especially krogans, salarians, humans and turians.
That doesn't make them not negotiable.
They are just ruthless and selfish, like salarians or humans or krogans.

[honeyiscool]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

ME2 is my favorite game ever, but the poor thing kinda forgot that it was supposed to be the middle game in a trilogy.  Felt more like one big sidequest, really.

One big AWESOME sidequest, but I can't deny it had some problems with its core narrative.

Also, there was planet scanning.  I'll bet the guy who came up with that is the same idiot that thought interstellar grocery shopping would be fun OH HAI SO I HEARD YOU LIKE ARTIFACTS.

Yeah, it not only had nothing to do with advancing the story, it completely rewrote Cerberus for one game. You know, the same Cerberus that was turning people into Creepers and Husks in the first game, committed all kinds of galactic attrocities in the third game, during the second, was the only organization that had the good of humanity at heart? Even allowing asari, quarian, krogan, salarian, and turian crew members? Giving Shepard, completely unmodified, complete access to the most advanced star ship ever made? Give me a break.

[Ja88erw0cky]

Arcian wrote...

Well, gee, I don't know about you guys, but in MY ending, the geth lived and sent Legion to play bass in Niftu Cal's wedding band along with Mordin on the synth, Wrex on the drums and Thane on the guitar. Their first gig was a massive hit and now they're touring all of Citadel space getting hot babes and loads of cash. Though Niftu has revealed himself to have a serious red sand problem, and the rest of the band knows their fame is over if he continues to wreck gigs with his "Biotic God" episodes.

In fact, according to some safe sources, they've sent him to the elcor Dr. Druue's Celebrity Rehab to clean up his act. Rumor has it he's become a born again Enkindlerite and wants to receive Javik's forgiveness for his sinful living. Javik's response to this is that he would rather choose Synthesis than let a filthy primitive grovel in the dust before him.

In other news, Shepard has retreated to an unnamed but inhabited human planet where the Commander is currently running a farm. One of the reporters sent to get a statement by the former galactic savior has caught footage of an automated combine harvester on the grounds bellowing "WE ARE THE HARBINGER OF YOUR CROPS!" and "THE FORCES OF THIS FARMLAND BEND TO ME!".

Shepard has refused to comment on the nature of the vehicle.

Meesa sees watts usa did there 

[honeyiscool]

Maxster_ wrote...

I do not see a problem here. Every race in ME universe committed a lot of horrific things, especially krogans, salarians, humans and turians.
That doesn't make them not negotiable.
They are just ruthless and selfish, like salarians or humans or krogans.

I agree there. The fact that Geth did not pursue the quarians off world means that once they were no under attack, they did not have the goal of aggression anymore.

Let's remember that prior to Shepard in ME2, the geth had never a positive experience with an organic. In fact, the experience is momentous enough that it's one of the things that geth remember as part of their history. Prior to that, pretty much everybody shot them on sight, but even so, other than the heretics, they had never caused problems for non-aggressive organics. I think their hands are mostly clean. Any act of geth aggression has generally been reactive, not proactive.

[AdmiralCheez]

honeyiscool wrote...

Yeah, it not only had nothing to do with advancing the story, it completely rewrote Cerberus for one game. You know, the same Cerberus that was turning people into Creepers and Husks in the first game, committed all kinds of galactic attrocities in the third game, during the second, was the only organization that had the good of humanity at heart? Even allowing asari, quarian, krogan, salarian, and turian crew members? Giving Shepard, completely unmodified, complete access to the most advanced star ship ever made? Give me a break.

I have reached the conclusion that Cerberus is basically a more nefarious and only slighty more competent Team Rocket.  The Illusive Man just wants to gets all da pokeymanz and rule da world, yo.

@Xil: Sorry, I still think Sovereign is cooler than the Catalyst.  Even Harbinger's cooler than the Catalyst.

[spirosz]

Arcian wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Wait, what's that? Control and Synthesis turn them into good guys? They were mindless slaves of the Catalyst all along?

Why is that even bad?

Funny, the Reapers get used again.  Never truly being "free".

Imagine if they were? The bastards would hog all the chairs at the movies. Not to mention the issues just walking down the street.

*Crunch*
*Car alarm goes off*
"Catalyst damn it, was that your car? I swear, I am SO sorry. You know, perhaps if your governments spent tax money on building wider sidewalks instead of plastering every goddamn planet with gold statues of Shepard, you wouldn't have to get your car smushed when I go out to get a breath of fresh air? Wait, what was that? Well, screw you too, buddy! I reaped your family, so the joke's on you!"

Part of why I realized Synthesis is an inherently flawed idea.

LOL.  We would have to build to their standards, haha.  

[DeinonSlayer]

Maxster_ wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

They never negotiated with anyone either. Legion tells us they never even tried. They just occupied the one planet their creators were capable of living on and shot anyone who came near them. It'd be like if Skynet (which was also attacked first) wiped out 99% of the human race, then relented at the last minute, content to let us languish in space for the foreseeable future.

Also, pre-upgrade, they're not equal to organics. They're an immortal gestalt entity - in accordance with Legion's wishes, I don't anthropomorphize them. Each runtime is non-sentient, making each of them akin to a single neuron in one giant brain. The Quarians who first attacked them were wrong to do so, but they're all dead. Everything the Geth have done is still on them. Siding with the Reapers is only the latest thing I'm holding them to account for.

I'd be more open to peace if the Reaper code were off the table, but after what happened with the IFF, I'd trust that code about as far as I can throw Heretic Station. It's only safe to give it to them if you metagame anyway.

And?
I do not see a problem here. Every race in ME universe committed a lot of horrific things, especially krogans, salarians, humans and turians.

That doesn't make them not negotiable. They are just ruthless and selfish, like salarians or humans or krogans. 

It's not about race. The Geth are unique - "immortal gestalt entity" is the key distinction here. As Legion says, "one will, many minds." Show me a Krogan who dropped an asteroid on a colony world in the Rebellions and I'd punish him accordingly.

Ignoring all that, I'd think after what happened with the IFF, one would take pause at the prospect of using code that has the potential to turn an entire fleet against you (again).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:01 .

[Xilizhra]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

honeyiscool wrote...

Yeah, it not only had nothing to do with advancing the story, it completely rewrote Cerberus for one game. You know, the same Cerberus that was turning people into Creepers and Husks in the first game, committed all kinds of galactic attrocities in the third game, during the second, was the only organization that had the good of humanity at heart? Even allowing asari, quarian, krogan, salarian, and turian crew members? Giving Shepard, completely unmodified, complete access to the most advanced star ship ever made? Give me a break.

I have reached the conclusion that Cerberus is basically a more nefarious and only slighty more competent Team Rocket.  The Illusive Man just wants to gets all da pokeymanz and rule da world, yo.

@Xil: Sorry, I still think Sovereign is cooler than the Catalyst.  Even Harbinger's cooler than the Catalyst.

I'd say the Catalyst is more interesting than both, we just don't get enough time to understand it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'd say the Catalyst is more interesting than both, we just don't get enough time to understand it.

Even though it removes agency from the Reapers, whom we as players have a far greater personal connection with?  How would you like it if you didn't see Liara throughout the whole game, then suddenly this guy shows up and explains that Liara was his puppet the whole time?  The Catalyst is a violation of the canon that immensely disrespects previously established characters.  It's along the lines of one of those obnoxious "WHAT A TWEEST!" endings that I absolutely despise.

But hey, whatever lends bouyancy to your aquatic transportation device.  These are just my feelings on the matter, and they have a lot to do with my personal taste in storytelling.  When you think about it, there really is no objectively "wrong" way to tell a story, just a bunch of strategies that resonate better with audiences than others.

[AdmiralCheez]

Arcian wrote...

His unsuccessful hunt for that shiny Thresher Maw sent him straight down the slippery slope.

I don't see why he didn't use his Action Replay to solve that problem.  Seriously, magically raise an army?  Bring folks back from the dead?  He's totally hacking.

I'll bet he's got 999 Master Balls in his bag right now.

[AdmiralCheez]

Arcian wrote...

The Reaper code plot was a case of not just character defilement, but species defilement as well. In ME2 Legion states the reason they refused the Reapers in the first place is because they (the True Geth) wanted to find their own path towards unity and true intelligence. Then suddenly, in ME3, he just flips 180 degrees and takes it all back, craving some of that delicious, virtual Reaper gravy to smear over the not-so-virtual hole in his chest.

Yeah, it really didn't sit well with me, either.  However, I was able to justify it as an act of self-preservation.  Kind of like how I was able to justify Garrus going to Omega by deciding he had an inherently restless nature.

I'm not buying it. In fact, that's one of the things that makes me hate the Rannoch missions. The only really semi-flawless story arc in the entire trilogy is the Genophage Arc. Written by John Dombrow, who, not surprisingly, also wrote Javik, the arguably best character BioWare has ever created along with Deekin in NwN: SoU.

Sometimes, when I'm bored, I like to imagine what ME3 would have been like if everything was handled as well as it was within the Genophage Arc.  At first, I am filled with immense wonder, but that wonder is quickly replaced by bitter fan tears as I realize that it will never be so.

Funny enough, Deekin and Javik are something of polar opposites. One is a meek, submissive and ultra-loyal kobold fanboy who never questions the PC - the other is a darwinian supremacist who is the only one to consistently and frequently second-guess the PC.

Imagine if they ran a buddy cop show together? BioWare Vice. Smash hit, I tell you. Smash hit.

For the love of god, someone write that fanfic.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:14 .

[Bill Casey]

John Dombrow also wrote Garrus in Mass Effect 3...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:14 .

[Karrie788]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Funny enough, Deekin and Javik are something of polar opposites. One is a meek, submissive and ultra-loyal kobold fanboy who never questions the PC - the other is a darwinian supremacist who is the only one to consistently and frequently second-guess the PC.

Imagine if they ran a buddy cop show together? BioWare Vice. Smash hit, I tell you. Smash hit.

For the love of god, someone write that fanfic.

Dear God yes.

About Legion. I never truly understood how he died exactly. What the hell happened?

[lolerk53]

[quote]Funny enough, Deekin and Javik are something of polar opposites. One is a meek, submissive and ultra-loyal kobold fanboy who never questions the PC - the other is a darwinian supremacist who is the only one to consistently and frequently second-guess the PC.

Imagine if they ran a buddy cop show together? BioWare Vice. Smash hit, I tell you. Smash hit.[/quote]
For the love of god, someone write that fanfic.
[/quote]

This!
So much this that it hurts!
This!
This!
This!
This!
This!
This!
This!

[Karrie788]

Arcian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

John Dombrow also wrote Garrus in Mass Effect 3...

Love the guy. If it was biologically possible, I'd carry his children.

Same here.
Garrusmancers were lucky. Really, really lucky.

Arcian wrote...
The Plot Reaper happened.

[Maxster_]

Arcian wrote...

The Reaper code plot was a case of not just character defilement, but species defilement as well. In ME2 Legion states the reason they refused the Reapers in the first place is because they (the True Geth) wanted to find their own path towards unity and true intelligence. Then suddenly, in ME3, he just flips 180 degrees and takes it all back, craving some of that delicious, virtual Reaper gravy to smear over the not-so-virtual hole in his chest.

I'm not buying it. In fact, that's one of the things that makes me hate the Rannoch missions. The only really semi-flawless story arc in the entire trilogy is the Genophage Arc. Written by John Dombrow, who, not surprisingly, also wrote Javik, the arguably best character BioWare has ever created along with Deekin in NwN: SoU.
...

Yeah, i didn't liked that geth's turnaround also. It certainly explainable, but just not exactly fit.
As for Tuchanka - why reapers even bother to poison the atmosphere? They could just bomb planet, or ignore krogans for some time, they are no threat at all, without fleets. But it is still the best part of ME3, all decisions matters.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Karrie788 wrote...
Same here.
Garrusmancers were lucky. Really, really lucky.

We are.  But hey, so is Garrus.  He's getting laid by a LOT of badass, sexy ladies   He is a memetic space pimp.  Not bad for a seven foot tall raptor man with teeth like Exacto blades.

Arcian wrote...

The Reaper code plot was a case of not just character defilement, but species defilement as well. In ME2 Legion states the reason they refused the Reapers in the first place is because they (the True Geth) wanted to find their own path towards unity and true intelligence. Then suddenly, in ME3, he just flips 180 degrees and takes it all back, craving some of that delicious, virtual Reaper gravy to smear over the not-so-virtual hole in his chest.

To be fair, Legion did also say that the geth literally got dumber after the quarians bombed them, and he never qualifies how much dumber they were.  They'd have to be pretty freaking dense (we're talking Allers levels of dense here) to accept help from the Reapers, but it's always a possibility.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 18 octobre 2012 - 09:45 .