272 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Did I just hi-jack a thread with one crossed-out post and not even returning to it afterwards (besides this)?

This, my friends, is talent.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 19 octobre 2012 - 05:26 .

[DrGunjah]

Xilizhra wrote...
But you are. This is self-evident. Human history is one of endless strife and bloodshed, no matter how advanced we've become in terms of pure technology, and likely how advanced we ever will, unless we change ourselves.

Indeed, but what has to change is our mind and not our body.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Now I know what made Legion different than the rest of the geth. It was malfunctioning. It wanted to be more organic. So it was following Shepard around learning how to be organic, and finally welded the piece of N7 armor to itself. Clothes make the man. What they needed to do with Legion was get him a job, sell him a house and get him locked into a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. That would have done it.

The problem I have with synthesis. And what about uploading the reaper code? Jack sums it up best here: http://youtu.be/X_QmG57VwZs?t=1m14s

Control just adds slavery to the whole thing, but doesn't affect the geth, and Shepard is dead.

Yeah, I feel sorry for the geth. They get screwed no matter which way you go.

[pmac_tk421]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

 I feel that a change that makes everyone more intelligent, less aggresive, less discriminatory and other things implied in synthesis, I would call it a positive change, and everyone wants a future where everyone isn't an **** right... RIGHT... oh wait. This is BSN.

But there's a problem: it's not consensual.  Nobody chose to be synthesized, and the person who made that choice died, so in effect did not undergo the process him/herself.  Is it still okay if it's not consensual?

Let's pretend that doctors invent a pill that makes people stop being violent or racist or whatever.  This pill also has the added benefit of making people smarter, healthier, and happier.  Now, would it be okay for the government to force everyone to take this pill?  Would it be okay if they sent soldiers out in the middle of the night to sneak into your room and place a tablet under your tongue while you slept?

Compounding the issue, we're not sure what Synthesis actually does.  We don't know exactly how it changes people, much less how much it changes them.  We don't know if there are side effects.  In fact, in this case our "pill" has never been tested on anyone, ever.  The only evidence we have to go by is that a bunch of genocidal maniacs went around slaughtering people and destroying cities under the claim that they were doing everyone the same favor.

Oh, and there are pretty cutscenes with a nice voiceover to make you feel good about it.  I guess you can count that as evidence.

@Septimus: Duh!

 I'm more putting it a context of the choice kind of way. The four choices are as follows
Destroy: Commit genocide against synthetics, damage all technology. Knowledge of previous races lost.
Control: Reapers are controled, but they aren't truly better, still follow will of catalyst, organics and synthetics will still hate eachother.
Refusal: Everyone dies.
Synthesis: Organics and synthetics no longer hate eachother. Everyone improved in all areas of existance. Reapers cooperate with organics and other synthetics to start golden age.
Of the four, Synthesis is clearly the best end result for the galaxy. Think about the krogan slides in the EC. The krogan become organized and intelligent enough to create and disperse the cure on their own if you sabotaged the cure, regardless of other decisions.The prosperity synthesis brings is one of the best things that could ever happen to the galaxy. Also, about the freedom of choice thing; racists didn't want to allow blacks into white schools in the united states, but we still did it. A great leap forward to society takes precedence over the opinions of the superstitious. Also, the whole point of the EC slides was to show you what the consequences of your choices were. They aren't fan reactions, they're the writers canonical results.

Modifié par pmac_tk421, 19 octobre 2012 - 07:31 .

[LilLino]

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. Damn the Geth, they joined the Reapers to gain power and then wouldn't help us unless we let them keep it. Are they really worth that much?
Catalyst had millions of years to set galaxy straight, instead he chose murder again and again.
I won't let him murder Shepard so he can fulfill his misguided purpose.

Also I won't let murderer judge us 'organics' as racist, not being able to cooperate while we united everyone against him. I won't agree with my main enemy that we are lower creatures that need to be uplifted when I have a gun pointed at his head ( to be honest I mean the tube but head sounds cooler!).

The synthesis make bring peace&love or whatever, but that's because it destroys everything that makes us human. It has to remove free will, or there always will be evil. That's not what we deserve and that's certainly not what we need.

[hukbum]

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. ...  Are they really worth that much?

Yes, they are. They were needed for the rest of the galaxy to learn, how to co-exist, how to come along.

In destroy the kid kinda says: I can't allow you to prove me wrong. So I destroy what's needed to do this.
Like a huffy little boy stomping his feet on the ground.

[LilLino]

hukbum wrote...

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. ...  Are they really worth that much?

Yes, they are. They were needed for the rest of the galaxy to learn, how to co-exist, how to come along.

In destroy the kid kinda says: I can't allow you to prove me wrong. So I destroy what's needed to do this.
Like a huffy little boy stomping his feet on the ground.

On the contrary, the loss of synthetic race may be forever remember as an ultimate sacrifice and can lead to recreating them and actually treating them as heroes and martyrs. Politics/Shepard (since s/he is alive in destroy) just have to play their cards right.

Nothing unites people more than misery.

Modifié par LilLino, 19 octobre 2012 - 07:50 .

[hukbum]

LilLino wrote...

hukbum wrote...

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. ...  Are they really worth that much?

Yes, they are. They were needed for the rest of the galaxy to learn, how to co-exist, how to come along.

In destroy the kid kinda says: I can't allow you to prove me wrong. So I destroy what's needed to do this.
Like a huffy little boy stomping his feet on the ground.

On the contrary, the loss of synthetic race may be forever remember as an ultimate sacrifice and can lead to recreating them and actually treating them as heroes and martyrs. Politics/Shepard (since s/he is alive in destroy) just have to play their cards right.

Nothing unites people more than misery.

They will forget. Organics are stupid. Look at the Quarians

About misery - many organics will have many misery. The Geth? Gone. Some organics would be sad but most still see them as "dangerous robots who killed children, put humans on spikes and allied with the reapers.".

[pmac_tk421]

LilLino wrote...

hukbum wrote...

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. ...  Are they really worth that much?

Yes, they are. They were needed for the rest of the galaxy to learn, how to co-exist, how to come along.

In destroy the kid kinda says: I can't allow you to prove me wrong. So I destroy what's needed to do this.
Like a huffy little boy stomping his feet on the ground.

On the contrary, the loss of synthetic race may be forever remember as an ultimate sacrifice and can lead to recreating them and actually treating them as heroes and martyrs. Politics/Shepard (since s/he is alive in destroy) just have to play their cards right.

Nothing unites people more than misery.

Thats kind of cold. Also, about synthetics being treated as marytrs, the first part is that seeing as AIs like the geth had personality and free thought, so talking about them like their replacable is kinda messed up. Also, in this scenario, the catalysts words still apply,"but the peace won't last". Besides the fact that man will not see them as martyrs still, the people who did will eventually die, and their children will not view them in the same way.

[mauro2222]

Oh Cheez, I just love how you write haha.

[mauro2222]

Eterna5 wrote...

It's like you think you're funny or something.

I'm laughing, a lot. I sense a lack of sense

[pmac_tk421]

Arcian wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

Also, the whole point of the EC slides was to show you what the consequences of your choices were. They aren't fan reactions, they're the writers canonical results.

That's exactly what's pissing people off.

But the argument we're having is whether Destroy or Synthesis In the cannon is the better ending. Head cannon and what you wanted the endings to be doesn't apply.

[Bill Casey]

Destroy...

[SeptimusMagistos]

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all.

I'm not killing people on the off-chance that something goes wrong at some point in the future.

LilLino wrote... Are they really worth that much?

Yup. This is the moment when Shepard proves to the Reapers that he won't throw synthetics under the bus. This is the time when synthetics and organics work together in defiance of the Catalyst's theories. Most importantly, this is the moment when Shepard finally uploads his mind into a computer just like he'd always planned on doing.

Control - because there are no negatives.

[Eterna]

LilLino wrote...

hukbum wrote...

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all. ...  Are they really worth that much?

Yes, they are. They were needed for the rest of the galaxy to learn, how to co-exist, how to come along.

In destroy the kid kinda says: I can't allow you to prove me wrong. So I destroy what's needed to do this.
Like a huffy little boy stomping his feet on the ground.

On the contrary, the loss of synthetic race may be forever remember as an ultimate sacrifice and can lead to recreating them and actually treating them as heroes and martyrs. Politics/Shepard (since s/he is alive in destroy) just have to play their cards right.

Nothing unites people more than misery.

Lets not play pretend here. If you made the choice to pick Destroy at least acknowledge what you've done. The Geth did not sacrifice themselves, you made that choice for them. You murdered them.

Modifié par Eterna5, 19 octobre 2012 - 09:45 .

[hukbum]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Control - because there are no negatives.

Saving with enslaving?

[Eterna]

hukbum wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Control - because there are no negatives.

Saving with enslaving?

Reapers don't enslave people in control. They become benevolent peace keepers.

[hukbum]

Eterna5 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Control - because there are no negatives.

Saving with enslaving?

Reapers don't enslave people in control. They become benevolent peace keepers.

Jep. Enslaved ones.

[DrGunjah]

Eterna5 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Control - because there are no negatives.

Saving with enslaving?

Reapers don't enslave people in control. They become benevolent peace keepers.

yeah, just like they are preserving organic life now

[Eterna]

DrGunjah wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Control - because there are no negatives.

Saving with enslaving?

Reapers don't enslave people in control. They become benevolent peace keepers.

yeah, just like they are preserving organic life now

They do preserve Organic life. Stop trying to be clever if you can't even understand the endings.

[LilLino]

Eterna5 wrote...


Lets not play pretend here. If you made the choice to pick Destroy at least acknowledge what you've done. The Geth did not sacrifice themselves, you made that choice for them. You murdered them.

Of course I did, I'm not saying I didn't. It doesn't mean I have to admit to that though. Shepard's not an idiot.
What, do you think anyone would believe him if he said he met god who offered him to play god?

No, the Geth are dead, but their death could be turned into something good if played well.  You can go with 'organics are stupid and don't care' route or you can go with 'organics will appreciate what Geth did for them and  how they died for tor their future and will try to pay back'

Stop putting 'organics are idiots and need to be synthesised' everywhere. It's pain in the ass, how the hell am I supposed to have an argument against that. It's silly. If you don't believe in human kind at all I won't be able to convince you no matter what I say.

Modifié par LilLino, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:02 .

[Eterna]

LilLino wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Lets not play pretend here. If you made the choice to pick Destroy at least acknowledge what you've done. The Geth did not sacrifice themselves, you made that choice for them. You murdered them.

Stop putting 'organics are idiots and need to be synthesised' everywhere. It's pain in the ass, how the hell am I supposed to have an argument against that. It's silly. If you don't believe in human kind at all I won't be able to convince you no matter what I say.

I never made that argument though. Also, evidence in the universe would suggest that organics are in fact stupid. If not for Shepard most of them would be extinct. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:04 .

[LilLino]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

LilLino wrote...

Destroy kills the influence of the Reapers once and for all.

I'm not killing people on the off-chance that something goes wrong at some point in the future.

LilLino wrote... Are they really worth that much?

Yup. This is the moment when Shepard proves to the Reapers that he won't throw synthetics under the bus. This is the time when synthetics and organics work together in defiance of the Catalyst's theories. Most importantly, this is the moment when Shepard finally uploads his mind into a computer just like he'd always planned on doing.

Control - because there are no negatives.

Have you just said that your Shepard considers everyone else worse than him, uncapable of keeping peace and that he always wanted to be a God of the Universe? That he considered it his destiny? Yeah well, that's very very control person there.

Well kinda hard to argue against someone with such POV 

Eterna5 wrote...


I never made that argument though. Also, evidence in the universe would suggest that organics are in fact stupid. If not for Shepard most of them would be extinct. 

You kinda fail to realise that Shepard is, in fact, organic.
Most of the huge conflicts in Council space was your precious Catalyst' doing. Rachnii Wars caused by the Reapers caused Krogan Rebellions 1500 years before Shepard. Another war was between Geth&Quarians but since then there was 300 years of peace in Milky Way. That kind of proves your theory of total stupidity wrong.

Modifié par LilLino, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[4stringwizard]

Eterna5 wrote...
Lets not play pretend here. If you made the choice to pick Destroy at least acknowledge what you've done. The Geth did not sacrifice themselves, you made that choice for them. You murdered them.

I'm not going to feel guilty about breaking a bunch of machines that could be alive (and aren't if you take synthesis literally in the EC) when it means defeating an enemy that's bent on destroying all organic races that ARE, in fact, alive. 

EDIT: machines which happened to side with the Reapers when backed into a corner. 

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:10 .