75 réponses à ce sujet

[heat2008]

 Ok before you read too much into the title of my post, don't misunderstand. I like the game, a lot. But on the other hand I hate it with a passion. This is the only Bioware game outside of Mass Effect I've played but I've heard a little bit about there other games like Baulders Gate and so on. And the main reason I got it was because I liked Mass Effect so much...that and I just got a PS3 and was in need of an RPG to play.

I play a mage for 2 reasons, the AI is retarded and I hate melee classes. I tried letting the AI control my mage but it's nowhere near as effective as me controlling her. I do 50% of my parties damage and I have another mage in the group with the same talents which only does 20%. Yes I roll with 2 mages. I've seen a lot of people call this game difficult, I don't find it so but I do find it rather tedious and aggrivating.

I'm going to try and keep this short because the game was designed the way it was for a reason and it has become clear to me that I do not like western RPG's. Western developers apparently believe hard translates into tedious unnecessary aggravation, or at the very least that's how I feel about this game and it's the only western true RPG I've played. I'm more prone to playing Japanese ones and in my opinion they're better. Although I'm a huge fan of Bethesda and their work. But back to the subject at hand, some of the issues I have are...

• The party does not stay in formation, there may be a way to change that but I don't know it. If I decide I want to run to regroup and re-evaluate my plan I can't. The party will not follow and there is no way to leave combat once engauged...which is weird to me since I thought escape was an essential battle tactic.
• If I tell me people to hold that's what I mean, I don't care what cut scene I go through If I put you around the corner then that's where I expect you to be. Especially if I know I'm walking into an ambush, I do not like being forced into an ambush that's blatantly obvious to forsee. Are my people really that stupid.
• I also don't like being forced to make specific choices solely to keep members in my group. For example, I like Shale a lot and when I got to the anvil conclusion I chose to use it. An army of golems would seem useful no, but that choice makes shale revolt and fight you then die. And after the battle she doesn't get up, no that **** is just dead period. So I lose one of my favorite characters because of some stupid choice that has little affect on the game as a whole. Great. That's not really a choice, whats the point of my downloading a character if I'm just going to kill her later, that's ignant.
• If I see enemies but they haven't seen me yet, why can I not attack them then and there. Why do I have to wait for them to turn hostile to attack. That means the player never has the chance to take the initiave. If I can shoot a fireball into a group of monsters and they take no damage then I should be able to shoot it at my party and they take no damage. I do not find friendly fire to make the game more difficult, just annoying.
• Some of the end level talents are ****. No other way to put it. The first time I played I chose spirit healer and got all the talents only to find out Clensing Aura sucks the big one. Not only does it take a reserve of your mana but it also continually drains your mana as you keep the spell activated WHICH THE GAME DOES NOT TELL YOU and had I known I wouldn't have gotten a talent past ressurect. So 28 hours into the game I decide to restart because I was highly upset about that , only to find out fade aura will cause your mage to sustain random injuries. I put it on and 2 fights later I look at the botom to see I have 6 injuries and I'm confused as hell because I never died so I didn't know how they got there. Use some injury kits start another fight and watch 2 more pop up. I mean really where you trying to make these skills completely useless. Now I'm mad I put 4 points into arcane warrior when I should've just said **** it and been a blood mage instead.

I could go on with a couple more but chances are you should be able to understand what I do not like about the game even if I don't bring it up. I'm not going to say it's a bad game because the game was intentionally designed this way but I don't see how people can find those things enjoyable. I know it's like that to make the game "difficult" but it doesn't. The monsters are no harder to beat, the enemies aren't smarter because of it. It simply forces you to play a certian way and if I'm playing a game I want to play it the way I want to play it, I don't like to be forced to do anything and this game forces a lot of **** on you.

That and on the PS3 version there is a glitch where if you open the radial menu right as combat begins the game will continue to play with the radial menu open and then freeze when you close it. It can get rather annoying because hen this happens you're stuck and can not move 

[Obadiah]

The inability to escape is kind of lame, although I have managed to escape to another part of the map on occasion.

As to that PS3 bug: DUDE! THAT SUCKS!

But I play on the PC and luv it to deth

Modifié par Obadiah, 31 décembre 2009 - 03:29 .

[eschilde]

You can select the entire party to move them to a certain point. I'm not sure what the controls for it in the PS3 are but it should be easy to look up.

[Spectre 117]

heat2008 wrote...

 Ok before you read too much into the title of my post, don't misunderstand. I like the game, a lot. But on the other hand I hate it with a passion. This is the only Bioware game outside of Mass Effect I've played but I've heard a little bit about there other games like Baulders Gate and so on. And the main reason I got it was because I liked Mass Effect so much...that and I just got a PS3 and was in need of an RPG to play.

I play a mage for 2 reasons, the AI is retarded and I hate melee classes. I tried letting the AI control my mage but it's nowhere near as effective as me controlling her. I do 50% of my parties damage and I have another mage in the group with the same talents which only does 20%. Yes I roll with 2 mages. I've seen a lot of people call this game difficult, I don't find it so but I do find it rather tedious and aggrivating.

I'm going to try and keep this short because the game was designed the way it was for a reason and it has become clear to me that I do not like western RPG's. Western developers apparently believe hard translates into tedious unnecessary aggravation, or at the very least that's how I feel about this game and it's the only western true RPG I've played. I'm more prone to playing Japanese ones and in my opinion they're better. Although I'm a huge fan of Bethesda and their work. But back to the subject at hand, some of the issues I have are...

• The party does not stay in formation, there may be a way to change that but I don't know it. If I decide I want to run to regroup and re-evaluate my plan I can't. The party will not follow and there is no way to leave combat once engauged...which is weird to me since I thought escape was an essential battle tactic.
• If I tell me people to hold that's what I mean, I don't care what cut scene I go through If I put you around the corner then that's where I expect you to be. Especially if I know I'm walking into an ambush, I do not like being forced into an ambush that's blatantly obvious to forsee. Are my people really that stupid.
• I also don't like being forced to make specific choices solely to keep members in my group. For example, I like Shale a lot and when I got to the anvil conclusion I chose to use it. An army of golems would seem useful no, but that choice makes shale revolt and fight you then die. And after the battle she doesn't get up, no that **** is just dead period. So I lose one of my favorite characters because of some stupid choice that has little affect on the game as a whole. Great. That's not really a choice, whats the point of my downloading a character if I'm just going to kill her later, that's ignant.
• If I see enemies but they haven't seen me yet, why can I not attack them then and there. Why do I have to wait for them to turn hostile to attack. That means the player never has the chance to take the initiave. If I can shoot a fireball into a group of monsters and they take no damage then I should be able to shoot it at my party and they take no damage. I do not find friendly fire to make the game more difficult, just annoying.
• Some of the end level talents are ****. No other way to put it. The first time I played I chose spirit healer and got all the talents only to find out Clensing Aura sucks the big one. Not only does it take a reserve of your mana but it also continually drains your mana as you keep the spell activated WHICH THE GAME DOES NOT TELL YOU and had I known I wouldn't have gotten a talent past ressurect. So 28 hours into the game I decide to restart because I was highly upset about that , only to find out fade aura will cause your mage to sustain random injuries. I put it on and 2 fights later I look at the botom to see I have 6 injuries and I'm confused as hell because I never died so I didn't know how they got there. Use some injury kits start another fight and watch 2 more pop up. I mean really where you trying to make these skills completely useless. Now I'm mad I put 4 points into arcane warrior when I should've just said **** it and been a blood mage instead.

I could go on with a couple more but chances are you should be able to understand what I do not like about the game even if I don't bring it up. I'm not going to say it's a bad game because the game was intentionally designed this way but I don't see how people can find those things enjoyable. I know it's like that to make the game "difficult" but it doesn't. The monsters are no harder to beat, the enemies aren't smarter because of it. It simply forces you to play a certian way and if I'm playing a game I want to play it the way I want to play it, I don't like to be forced to do anything and this game forces a lot of **** on you.

That and on the PS3 version there is a glitch where if you open the radial menu right as combat begins the game will continue to play with the radial menu open and then freeze when you close it. It can get rather annoying because hen this happens you're stuck and can not move 

Yeah japanese are the best at rpgs oh wait are they the ones who put a spiky haired dude with annesia in a quest to save the world that is pretty much cliched?Why yes they are :l

[Sidney]

eschilde wrote...

You can select the entire party to move them to a certain point. I'm not sure what the controls for it in the PS3 are but it should be easy to look up.

I don't think you can move all to a specific location on the consoles. Don't know why, unless that is only allowed in the tactical view, but it is a gripe of mine as plenty of the cutscene-talk-fight battles would be much more manageable if I could stage a withdrawl.

Other than that if you like JRPG's well then you might need some sort of clincal help. Seriously to each his own but JRPG's make me cringe to play.

[guitarbard]

PC has the extreme advantage of a quickbar while a console doesn't. I personally my WSAD and mouse when it comes to DAO. As for party movement, that's what the tactics button is for, along with hold/move freely and pause. I have had some problems with some of them though, but that's when I go, "Fine, if you want to be an idiotic [insert explicit insult here] and die, don't expect me to waste an injury kit on your pathetic ***."

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes, party control in consoles is very unadequate. From what I have seen and heard, that's not the case in PC.

[Marso40]

I escape the same way. Select the whole party and click on another location. Sometimes someone gets hung up in the scrum, though, which I suppose is realistic. And if you are fighting something speedy, often it will beat your tank to the rally point (which I usually use as an opportunity to turn and gang up on it, maybe to retreat again shortly thereafter).



Lot of valid gripes here. I often have a mage start casting a big AOE spell and then send in a stealthed rogue to 'activate' the enemies so the spell will actually do damage when it kicks in. I can usually extract my rogue with minimal damage but it's a helluva way to have to initiate a fight.



I also don't like how some cutscenes 'bring the whole party with you, regardless' when you'd rather advance alone and let the rest hold back, because you just KNOW it's going to end badly. There are a couple places where it's plot driven, but not all of them.



Still though, I LOVE this game. I play on the PC though, which is a whole different enchilada. I wouldn't even bother with this game (or any RPG) on a console.

[Marso40]

DP

Modifié par Marso40, 31 décembre 2009 - 03:42 .

[fantasypisces]

Wait wait, are you saying it is absurd for a companion to be so mad at one of your decisions that they would rather fight you then stick around with you? Heaven forbid characters can't make decisions for themselves.



Most of the characters have a trigger that will make them turn on you, if you do something that goes against their beliefs. If I walked into a chantry and started killing everyone just because I felt like it, you think Leliana and Alistair would stand by and help you? According to you, they should.... it's an RPG afterall, your decisions have consequences.



Your other points have merit though, I get upset about the 'clear ambushes' sometimes too.

[heat2008]

Hmm I've never tried to select the whole party, I have seen the way to do it pop up during loading but never gave it any thought. I'll try that and see how it works, I'm at an area where I need to move all my people at once so I hope this method proves successful.



As for the Japanese rpg's I said nothing of their visual sense but the game play tends to be much smoother. The same could be said for western rpg's though, you make some random dwarf/elf/human in the middle ages and send them off to fight dragons and tyrants. Tis the same just culturally different.



I'm getting a new PC soon, just ordered it and should get it in the coming weeks, although I already know WoW will be taking up most of my time on it.

[coldlogic82]

I loved the game, but I agree with the party deserting complaint. I feel bad for people who play this on PS3 and can't get a respecialization mod, because if you want to play with a healer you HAVE to make certain choices. You can't nullify the circle without killing Wynne, nor can you destroy the ashes without her leaving... EVEN IF SHE'S NOT IN YOUR PARTY AT THE TIME.



Without an included way to respecialize your characters, it's really really lame that you can't explore two major quest decisions without losing the game's ONLY HEALER. Not cool.



But, I have a PC, so f*** you Bioware, I just respecced Morrigan. Suck my d*** you sons of b*******.

[Schwinni]

only to find out fade aura will cause your mage to sustain random injuries. I put it on and 2 fights later I look at the botom to see I have 6 injuries and I'm confused as hell because I never died so I didn't know how they got there. Use some injury kits start another fight and watch 2 more pop up. I mean really where you trying to make these skills completely useless. Now I'm mad I put 4 points into arcane warrior when I should've just said **** it and been a blood mage instead.

Which spell do you mean? Aura of might or fade shroud?
BTW, you can get injuries from other thing too, e.g. rogues attacking you, the special chests in Jarvia's hideout.
I ask, because I didn't have a single injury with my AW and (of course) used the two spells I mentioned above a lot.

[heat2008]

I did mean Fade Shroud, but I was just killing random darkspawn when I was injured. I'll give it another go though, I have plenty of injury kits if the worse should happen.

Fantasy that may be true but my nature has been the same since the beginning of the game. I have always played the power abusive don't give a **** mage, my nature did not change because I met a new character. If that were the case then that party members should have never decided to follow me in the first place. I can understand them getting upset and losing relationship points, but leaving to never return is a bit much. That altered my entire way of playing. I've had the same 4 people in my party since the beginning of the game, my mage, Morrigan, Shale, and the malbari.I don't keep any equipment I find for anybody else, it all gets sold. With Shale gone I had to fill in a spot with an inferior character and one I like less. Why go through the effort of putting such personality into characters and getting people to like them if they make one choice and off they go, I shouldn't HAVE to chose specific things in order to keep party members. Especially when I don't agree with the choice I'd be forced to pick. Take Fallout 3 for example. I know the two don't compare well as they are completely different types of games but a person...or thing may chose to follow you if your values coincide with theirs, and should you do a moral 180 they'll leave. But if you decide to go back to your old standards they will follow you again. They never desert you for good...unless they die.

I also tried to select the entire party yo move them...didn't work. I ended up having to solo all Logains guards and ser cath...somehing. Needless to say they got served.

Modifié par heat2008, 31 décembre 2009 - 04:50 .

[fantasypisces]

heat2008 wrote...

I did mean Fade Shroud, but I was just killing random darkspawn when I was injured. I'll give it another go though, I have plenty of injury kits if the worse should happen.

Fantasy that may be true but my nature has been the same since the beginning of the game. I have always played the power abusive don't give a **** mage, my nature did not change because I met a new character. If that were the case then that party members should have never decided to follow me in the first place. I can understand them getting upset and losing relationship points, but leaving to never return is a bit much. That altered my entire way of playing. I've had the same 4 people in my party since the beginning of the game, my mage, Morrigan, Shale, and the malbari.I don't keep any equipment I find for anybody else, it all gets sold. With Shale gone I had to fill in a spot with an inferior character and one I like less. Why go through the effort of putting such personality into characters and getting people to like them if they make one choice and off they go, I shouldn't HAVE to chose specific things in order to keep party members. Especially when I don't agree with the choice I'd be forced to pick.

I also tried to select the entire party yo move them...didn't work. I ended up having to solo all Logains guards and ser cath...somehing. Needless to say they got served.

It's not much at all.
1) They don't know what you are like when they first meet you. They learn about you as they go.
2) Just because you didn't equip your other characters does not mean it's the games fault, it is yours.

Lets say for instance I am your companion. We meet up and I find out you are on a quest to save the country (ferelden). I agree with your cause and lend my aid. Then over the course of our adventures you get my personal quest (or some other thing) that brings you to my home so I can say goodbye to my family or something. When you walk in, my dog growls at you, and you kill him, then kill my family for yelling at you (because you say you are playing a heartless character). I don't care how much I liked you, I am killing you. So you gave me really good gear? Great, thanks, makes it easier to kill you.

See what I'm saying? Being mad at the game because you pissed a companion off so much they wanted to fight you to death is not the games fault. That is good story-writing. I always equip all my characters with gear that they can use. From an RP perspective, I want them ready to fight at a moments notice. Don't blame your own shortcomings (not equipping all your characters) and narrowmindedness (whaaaahhh, I killed Shales creator and the only one that could give her answers to her past, it is stupid she fought to protect him, I mean jeeze can't she get over it?) on the game.

Modifié par fantasypisces, 31 décembre 2009 - 04:53 .

[heat2008]

I play with who I like, it's that simple. If I don't like a character I will neither play with nor equip them. You speak of good writing and it is that writing that gets people attached to specific characters. You say you'd get mad because I killed your dog, but if when we first met I hate a dog bone necklace and a decapitated dog head in my sack you should assume I'd have no reservations on killing yours. The little bastard shouldn't have growled at me, got what was coming to it. Afterall when you first met me I told you I desired power, so if a situation arises where I am to obtain it it's obvious the choice I'd make.



The game gives you clear choices and personality when you first meet people, Shale has always been Shale just like Morrigan was always a ****. There is no surprise down the line.The first thing Shale does when you aquire her is kill a chicken, from then on out she constantly talks about squishing birds...or anything fleshy.



So I will have to disagree with you, it IS the games fault. Because I have no choice but to chose a specific choice if I want to keep a character in which case it is not a choice but a mandatory answer. That means I can't play how I want and keep the characters I want to keep. Either play the game how you like or play the game how you're forced. Would you rather be cut and bleed to death or pushed off a cliff, your choice.

[fantasypisces]

Well i said my Dog and family.

If I made a choice in the game, and a companion didn't like it and turned against me, but I was sure my choice was the best, I would be pissed at the character, not the game.



I don't know, your argument doesn't make sense to me. It's ok for you to do what you like because your companions were warned beforehand? That's stupid reasoning as to why it's the games fault your companions would be mad at you, it's your fault. Yours. You made the decision to side with Branka.



That's the whole point of the entire freaking approval system, so you can know how much your companions like or dislike you. Kill Shales only hope of understanding her past, she sides with Caridin. Try to poison the ashes of a figure Leliana and Wynne revere (literally), they will try to kill you. Side with Alistairs mortal enemy and he leaves you. Ignore/be mean to Zevran and he will betray you. You saying none of those should matter?



It's like killing the President and telling the secret service to not be mad at you, because you gave them forewarning you were going to kill said President....



Seriously, your whole gripe sounds like a personal problem.

[AmstradHero]

Or you could just not have Shale in your party for that fight...

Seriously. You're complaining bitterly about the fact that this game makes you make a choice and then face consequences of your actions. Maybe you missed it somewhere, but this is a roleplaying game. Your party members can and will leave or die based on your choices.  That's a good point of this game, not a bad one.

If you don't want choice and consequence, perhaps you should play a different not-really-an-RPG-but-pretending-to-be-one game.

[fantasypisces]

AmstradHero wrote...

If you don't want choice and consequence, perhaps you should play a different not-really-an-RPG-but-pretending-to-be-one game.

I lol'ed

[Zenocrate]

First off, you are bad. Straight bad at this game. Fade Aura does NOT cause injuries. I played an arcane warrior from lvl 14-22 of my first playthrough and the only injuries I ever got were from the carta chests.

Second, cleansing aura is decent, in that every pulse HEALS AN INJURY (so if you had kept it, you wouldn't be needing to complain about needing injury kits). You do not need to have it on in combat, and probably shouldn't because it is a SUSTAIN spell, which does what it says, draws mana during combat to keep it sustained. I only take resurrect because it's a pre-req for cleansing aura.

Third, Wynne is not your only healer. You could have been one as a mage, or you could have given Morrigan all the healing talents.

Fourth, I'm not sure why this doesn't work for other people, they are probably bad as well, but I've never had any issue with casting an aoe on some baddies and them being damaged by it (one exception - the caravan quest). I can shoot non-engaged enemies with a bow as well.

Fifth, you complain about a game forcing you to make choices that affect the game state, god forbid your choices have consequences.

Your only valid complaint is about cutscenes. Which, if you were decent at the game, wouldn't be more than a very minor annoyance.

I'd say go back to trolling WoW, but even those kids probably don't want you back.

[phordicus]

yeah, if you're used to stealth exploration and a cutscene teleports the rest of your party right behind you, it can be tremendously disappointing, but this is the best of a really sad genre right now.

[heat2008]

You have your opinions, I have mine. We will never see eye to eye. I didn't say I was mad they got mad, I've done plenty of things my party members have disapproved of...except Morrigan we seem to think similarly.



I killed Wynne in the circle tower so she wouldn't have known about the ashes to start with, I don't like Leliana so she never left Loithering, I slit Zevrans throat for attacking me in the first place, as for Allister I haven't gotten that far yet so I have no clue what you're talking about. Or maybe I have and sided with him by default.



BUT going by how the game is set up it is possible to have no party members left but the main character in which case the game would probably become impossible to finish. I'm all for the approval system but if I have your approval maxed out and you leave because of one decision, yeah I'm gonna be pissed. Also I did not side with Branka, I just thought Caridin was being a little ****. As per the story Grey Wardens do whatever it takes to win, I'm supposed to feel bad about making an army of golems. More importantly just because HE misused the damn anvil doesn't mean another would. I will never agree with weak mindedness, oh I turned all these dwarfs into golems without their permission. Quit ****ing, we're at war. Thats how I think, in the game and personally.



Amstrad I'm glad you can make smart remarks, and point out the obviousness of the game. Shall you next bring up how mages are the only class that can use magic and warriors like to hit things? Or how about rouges being able to stealth because I assure you I did not know. While you're on the subject of rpg's, just what makes REAL one. So games that allow you to keep the characters you recruit don't count huh, those are just make believe. Heaven forbid I want to make my own choices in a game, free will is a terrible thing right. I bet.

[heat2008]

Zenocrate wrote...

First off, you are bad. Straight bad at this game. Fade Aura does NOT cause injuries. I played an arcane warrior from lvl 14-22 of my first playthrough and the only injuries I ever got were from the carta chests.
Second, cleansing aura is decent, in that every pulse HEALS AN INJURY (so if you had kept it, you wouldn't be needing to complain about needing injury kits). You do not need to have it on in combat, and probably shouldn't because it is a SUSTAIN spell, which does what it says, draws mana during combat to keep it sustained. I only take resurrect because it's a pre-req for cleansing aura.
Third, Wynne is not your only healer. You could have been one as a mage, or you could have given Morrigan all the healing talents.
Fourth, I'm not sure why this doesn't work for other people, they are probably bad as well, but I've never had any issue with casting an aoe on some baddies and them being damaged by it (one exception - the caravan quest). I can shoot non-engaged enemies with a bow as well.
Fifth, you complain about a game forcing you to make choices that affect the game state, god forbid your choices have consequences.
Your only valid complaint is about cutscenes. Which, if you were decent at the game, wouldn't be more than a very minor annoyance.
I'd say go back to trolling WoW, but even those kids probably don't want you back.

First, how nice of you to notice the terribleness that I am. Yes I'm now aware Fade Shroud does not cause injuries, I just happened to get that talent during the carta quest line and coincidentally enough right before the exploding chest/box and never gave it a chance after. Knowing this is why I said I'd give it another try and not **** you you don't know ****, I simply did not want to bring it up. But please do keep talking, I do so very enjoy it.

Second, I never complained about needing injury kits now did I, but your fingers where in such a hurry to type trash you probably failed to read anything properly.  Also no a sustained spell means it RESERVES an set amount of mana and keeps you from going past that threshold, NOT that it drains mana during combat. Spells that drain mana tell you, Clensing Aura does not. But sustained spells are bad, I suppose I shouldn't use arcane shield in battle either with it being a sustained spell and all. I should wait until after all the fighting is done then pop it on right.

Third, both my mage and Morrigane have the spirit healer specilization, please do tell me where I said ANYTHING about healing.

Fourth, yes it is indeed possible to not hit enemies that are marked as green until you get close enough to them that they turn red.

Fifth, I would get into this with you but from previous statements I'll just assume you're an idiot.

Now please do type some more so I can laugh, his is quite enjoyable for me. At least the other two seemed smart. At the very least could read.

[fantasypisces]

No don't feel bad about keeping the anvil, that's why it is a choice, because it would be useful against the darkspawn. But just because you think that doesn't mean your companions will, that's why your choices have consequences.



I thought you said you didn't equip any of your characters? Truthfully you just killed them all. Once again choices have consequences. Yes, you may just be left with 3-4 companions at the end of the game (possibly only 2). Rest assured, you will always have at least one companion, but even if you don't like that companion you can solo this game, many people have soloed nightmare. I, myself, am not that skilled (or patient, or interested) but it can be done. But that is the consequence you would have to deal with.

[Ruhumio]

Zenocrate wrote...

Second, cleansing aura is decent, in that every pulse HEALS AN INJURY (so if you had kept it, you wouldn't be needing to complain about needing injury kits).

I love reading random threads.  Never knew this about cleansing aura. <3

In all, I think your counter points are dead on.  Blaming the game for your own shortcomings is just silly.