75 réponses à ce sujet

[fantasypisces]

On another note, I intend to do a playthrough sort of like yours (killing everybody as I go) I just can't decide which character to do it with. With Morrigan, Dog, and Alistair I would probably want to be a rogue (I just can't get into that build). I'm thinking stone-cold Xenophobic Dalish... so I might keep Zevran? not sure.

[heat2008]

Don't mistake my temporary anger for resentment, I found shale to be hilarious and am saddened at the loss. I more upset that I won't get to hear her random comments than I am about having to replace her with another person.

That was me venting, although I still do not like the concept of party members leaving for good. But that is how the game was designed, I understand that well enough. I simply don't like it. I will get over it, possibly after fix Allister up.

And yeah I did kinda kill most of the people...but I didn't like them to start with. Thanks for arguing with me for a bit, I do love a good debate no matter how absurd it sounds. My second play through I'll simply get shale after the Orzammar chain, the problem is solved easily enough. But I enjoy arguing to the bitter end

I said me and Morrigan are similar, no.

Technically I didn't kill Zevran until the second time he attacked me, he was quite funny too and I probably would have used him to replace Shale...pity. I've tried to play a warior or rogue but it bothers me when the mage doesn't live up to it's potential so I just play the mage. Although playing a rogue "might" be fun, I may try it out if I beat the game before my PC get's here. Once the PC is here WoW will have retaken control of my life, I haven't played in about a year and I'm fiendin so bad it's starting to get painful. That game is dangerous.

Modifié par heat2008, 31 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[Sentient Being]

heat2008 wrote...

That and on the PS3 version there is a glitch where if you open the radial menu right as combat begins the game will continue to play with the radial menu open and then freeze when you close it. It can get rather annoying because hen this happens you're stuck and can not move 

Thats not just a PS3 Glitch, its an Xbox one as well. Not sure if thats what the cause is but it has happened to me several times.

[RSTORM50]

In Shale's case, when you get to Caradin and the talking ensues Shale begins to have certain memories jogged. In specific, she finds out exactly what it takes costwise to create a golem. Being a golem herself, she can tell you first hand the cost and is rightfully from her point of view against saving the anvil. Oghren doesn't like the idea either but will not leave you. (As a point of interest, I laughed hard when you get the chat option to ask Branka for a golem and volunteer Oghren as the one to become a golem.)



Leliana is very devout when it comes to the maker so it should come as no surprise her reaction to having the most sacred item in the land fouled by dragon blood.



Heat, I understand what you're saying but consider that even though you will do whatever it takes to win, (defeat the blight) your decisions come at a cost. If you decide you want the golem army, it will cost you Shale if he's with you. If you decide to foul the ashes for the reward it will cost you Leliana. This doesn't stop you from doing what you wish, but your friends will not remain your friend if you tick them off enough.



Personally, I like the game BECAUSE my actions have consequences and each decision must be weighed. My first time through, I became offended at how Wynne spoke to me when encountering her in the tower and ended up killing her on the spot. From a metagaming perspective, I like to keep Leliana around because she can be made a ranger which can give you an extra party member when they summon a pet.

[heat2008]

Ruhumio wrote...

Zenocrate wrote...

Second, cleansing aura is decent, in that every pulse HEALS AN INJURY (so if you had kept it, you wouldn't be needing to complain about needing injury kits).

I love reading random threads.  Never knew this about cleansing aura. <3

In all, I think your counter points are dead on.  Blaming the game for your own shortcomings is just silly.

That would make you an idiot as well. As he countered nothing and brought up all invalid points. Thanks for reading, no really. Thanks for reading.

Restor as I've said, that was just me venting. Most...90% of my comments about characters leaving were said solely to aggravate people and make them talk smack. I can not help being a smart ass, it is embedded DEEPLY in my blood. And I seriously enjoy arguing, I will argue even if I know flat out I'm wrong. Although I am still pissed shale left, but life goes on. C'es la vive.

Modifié par heat2008, 31 décembre 2009 - 06:43 .

[Realmzmaster]

The OP is clearly use to JRPGs. The one big difference is turn based verus real time. I could be wrong but most of the JRPGs appear to be turn based. (at least the ones I see my children play.) DAO is real time with a pause function. I also notice that most JRPGs do not have friendly fire. Most western rpgs do have friendly fire. Plain and simple if you throw a fireball into a crowd that your companions are meleeing your companions are going to get hit. Which simply makes sense, it is a fireball or quake (AOE spells) not a magic missle that you can direct. The same is true if you fire an arrow into the group you companions my get hit. It simply adds that touch of realism.

The party will stay in formation if you make use of the hold button or you can have them freely move. The use of the tactics screen can help you improve your companions AI. You are always going to be better at controlling a character because you know what you want to do in a situation the computer does not.

When a companion is not doing what I want it means I have not fine tuned the tactics screen enough or I need to take control of the companion. You also need to level up properly to add tactic slots.

Also it sounds like someone failed to read the manual and turned off the tips. Otherwise you would know that certain abilities, talents and spells are sustained. They chew up mana or stamina.

No this is not like JRPG where your companions will stay with you no matter what you do. In western RPGs your choices have consequences. If you want to keep Shale you will do the right thing by her, otherwise she turns on you.

Some of the encounters do not allow you to attack, because you will miss an opportunity to parley. Especially in the Caverns in the ruined temple. If you were allowed to attack you would miss a chance at a specialization.

Some of the encounters require you beat but not kill the leader so you can gain information or send a message.

The cutscences bring your entire group in because some of the encounters seal the door or block the entrance behind you. Meeting Jarvia or Branka comes to mind. Here if you come in shealth the door locks behind you and cannot be opened. Your character would be alone to face the enemy.

The other point is has your character seen the enemy. Just because you can the enemy does not mean your character has seen them. I simply advance the group to the point where I see a reaction in the enemy. The enemy melee attackers will have to cover the distance. Since all my characters carry range weapons the enemy is usually dead before they reach me. I can also take out their archers and mages. with range firepower. I have the tanks switch to melee weapons and mop up the rest.

DAO is an excellent game, but it require you learn the system.

[heat2008]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The OP is clearly use to JRPGs. The one big difference is turn based verus real time. I could be wrong but most of the JRPGs appear to be turn based. (at least the ones I see my children play.) DAO is real time with a pause function. I also notice that most JRPGs do not have friendly fire. Most western rpgs do have friendly fire. Plain and simple if you throw a fireball into a crowd that your companions are meleeing your companions are going to get hit. Which simply makes sense, it is a fireball or quake (AOE spells) not a magic missle that you can direct. The same is true if you fire an arrow into the group you companions my get hit. It simply adds that touch of realism.
The party will stay in formation if you make use of the hold button or you can have them freely move. The use of the tactics screen can help you improve your companions AI. You are always going to be better at controlling a character because you know what you want to do in a situation the computer does not.
When a companion is not doing what I want it means I have not fine tuned the tactics screen enough or I need to take control of the companion. You also need to level up properly to add tactic slots.
Also it sounds like someone failed to read the manual and turned off the tips. Otherwise you would know that certain abilities, talents and spells are sustained. They chew up mana or stamina.
No this is not like JRPG where your companions will stay with you no matter what you do. In western RPGs your choices have consequences. If you want to keep Shale you will do the right thing by her, otherwise she turns on you.
Some of the encounters do not allow you to attack, because you will miss an opportunity to parley. Especially in the Caverns in the ruined temple. If you were allowed to attack you would miss a chance at a specialization.
Some of the encounters require you beat but not kill the leader so you can gain information or send a message.
The cutscences bring your entire group in because some of the encounters seal the door or block the entrance behind you. Meeting Jarvia or Branka comes to mind. Here if you come in shealth the door locks behind you and cannot be opened. Your character would be alone to face the enemy.
The other point is has your character seen the enemy. Just because you can the enemy does not mean your character has seen them. I simply advance the group to the point where I see a reaction in the enemy. The enemy melee attackers will have to cover the distance. Since all my characters carry range weapons the enemy is usually dead before they reach me. I can also take out their archers and mages. with range firepower. I have the tanks switch to melee weapons and mop up the rest.
DAO is an excellent game, but it require you learn the system.

A sensible reply, although not quite as fun as the more argumentative ones. True I am use to JRPGs, the first game I truly remember playing was FFVI or 3 here in the states. Although not all are turned based, but the vast majority are so it's no point in denying that it is their standard. That seems to be changing slowly though. Friendly fire didn't bother me that much, the only time it's annoying is when Morrigan freezes me which isn't all that common.

I've played around a bit with the tactics screen, passive seems to work best when you want them to follow you. Hold won't make them move with you though, they just stay where they were when you turn hold on and when you run off they don't move. Unless your hold is different than mine in which case I want yours. I also know I'm smarter than the AI that's why I play a mage, I can kite any enemy or group so long as I have room to run while out damaging my entire party. Many a boss I've had to solo, it's quite fun actually.

Also I know that some talents are sustained, sustained just means their effect is constant. BUT that does not mean all sustained spells constantly drain mana. For example Arcane Shield is a sustained spell, I ALWAYS have it on. It has an upkeep of 30 and it reserves a permanent chunk of 30 mana from my total mana pool so even if I have "full" mana that 30 mana will not regenerate so long as i have that spell activated. That does not mean it drains my mana while it's activated. Cleansing Aura is also sustained and has an upkeep of 60 but aside from that reserved 60 mana it also drains your mana while activated and the spell does not tell you this. Shimmering Shield on the other hand is the same way, it has an upkeep of 60 but the spell tells you it drains mana while active. 

I understand the specialization thing but the game will let you miss other oppertunities so I find it odd that if I do shoot a fireball at some enemies it will not affect them until triggered. That may be true about the cut scenes as well but not all do and the ones that don't are the ones that aggravate me. Soloing Howe, his guards, and mages was not all that pleasing...although thrilling.

If I can see the enemy I feel like I should be able to attack them, the game is notorious for throwing the player into ambushes yet the player can not do the same. Sure you can tell your party to hold, run around the corner and bring the enemies to your party but you can't get the jump on them like they do on you. Maybe that's just how I see it.

I never said it was a bad game, and I don't appreciate being talked to like I'm some retard or random 8 year old kid that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. I'd much rather you be a snide ****, but I don't think it was your intention so I'll ignore it.

Actually I lie, the first game I remember playing is Zelda. How I miss that gold cartridge, FFVI is just the first RPG I remember. Don't know how I skipped the NES...and I don't count pong.

Modifié par heat2008, 31 décembre 2009 - 08:10 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

heat2008 wrote...

I play with who I like, it's that simple. If I don't like a character I will neither play with nor equip them. You speak of good writing and it is that writing that gets people attached to specific characters. You say you'd get mad because I killed your dog, but if when we first met I hate a dog bone necklace and a decapitated dog head in my sack you should assume I'd have no reservations on killing yours. The little bastard shouldn't have growled at me, got what was coming to it. Afterall when you first met me I told you I desired power, so if a situation arises where I am to obtain it it's obvious the choice I'd make.

And you should have kileld hte dog, ypou got what was coming to you.

Really man. Listen to yourself. You're acting like a spoiled brat, demanding that everyone in the game acts like you want them to act. They act like they're suppsoed to act. Ya know - like real people. Because if a character like your existed for real, he would run out of friends REAL fast...and end up dead or on gallows or something.

No, it ain't the games fault.

BUT going by how the game is set up it is possible to have no party members left but the main character in which case the game would probably become impossible to finish. I'm all for the approval system but if I have your approval maxed out and you leave because of one decision, yeah I'm gonna be pissed.

Wow..you cna completely alianate yourself from people? Jsut like in real life? Shocking!! If you got all fo your party ememebers killed, lower the difficulty. Or load a save. Or stop complaining. You brought that on yourself.

Anda singel decision should not be enough to get peopel to turn on you? Preposterous. It depnds on the decision. I may like you, but if you do something that's horrible enough, all that liking is void and null. There's a line in the sand you crossed. If  you can explain your action or rationalize them, then maybe the pary memebr won't turn on you or evne take a hit to his approval. But sometimes you can't.

[Sabriana]

You make a couple of good points there. The AoE spells not triggering properly is one of my biggest gripes, so is the inability to ambush the enemy, but they can ambush my PC and party with abandon.

About the Cleansing Aura, true, it gives no warning that I know of, but I saw it fast enough, turned it off again, swallowed some Lyrium and my mage went ahead with her rampage. Now I only turn it on when it's needed, and if my Arcane Warrior PC is out of Lyrium potions, she'll either use her bow or go into melee, it depends on the situation.

I absolutely hate the impossibility of retreat or running away. I was used to be able to either pepper the enemies with arrows or with spells and then turning and running to a safe distance when they came after my mage/rogue. But in this game, once an enemy targets the PC or ally, it will hit no matter what. My PC was way, way out of reach of an ogre, but still got hit. It was kind of silly to even watch, really. Just as silly as watching the miracle arrows/bolts round corners.

I do disagree with the choice/consequence complaints. Maybe it's because I'm used to it, but I like it that my choices have consequences, even if they are dire. I'm so used to it in fact that I'm in the habit of saving/reloading quite often. The game does not stop you from making the choices you want, but you will have to face the consequences of your action.

My PC sided with Caridin, because I didn't like the idea of such a powerful weapon being in anyone's hand, especially not Branka. That was my choice, and I was sure I would lose Oghren. Turns out that he not only stays on, but approves, pending on yet another set of choices.

Zevran I let live, but I talked to him a lot because I found him intriguing. My PC was always honest in her answers to him, but never mean. As a consequence Zevran trusted her to do right by him, and when the time came, he didn't attack the PC, he helped her fight the Crows.

My mage can be mean and nasty if necessary, but not just because she can. In the end my choices were such that I kept most of my allies, except one, but I didn't lose him until almost at the end.

But that's what it's all about: Choice and consequence.

It was also my choice to keep all my allies decked out in the best armor/weapons, and I always levelled them up in camp. Just in case, you know. It was also my choice to never keep a certain group around me, they changed constantly, such as taking Sten with me in certain places, but then switching him out with Shale or my dog. The only one that was with me 95% of the time was Zevran, because there are only two rogues to choose from, and after respeccing him, he was the better choice, because he was the better fighter. He is the better one due to my choices of developing him. I wanted a DW rogue, simply because my mage is plenty for ranged attacks, and my rogue/ranger is a bow specialist.

That's one of the biggest reasons I love having games like this on my PC instead of consoles. I can get plenty of mods to right that which I feel is wrong.

[heat2008]

Lotion, did you type all that just to see yourself type? I think you did. Because I SWEAR after I had my fair share of fun I said I was VENTING. Meaning I was Talking **** for the sake of making myself feel better. True I am rather bitter about losing Shale, but with Allister decked out dragon plate armor and siting pretty with his nice 130 soverign axe he does quite well indeed. If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure I said I'd feel better once I got him some gear, and I know it's shocking but guess what. I do.



More importantly, this is a G~A~M~E. I have the right to be as assholific as I please. Hell I have the right to be as assholific as I want in real life if that's my choice. Also a single decision WILL make a player turn on you, fantasy brought up various situations where this will happen. Truthfully I knew shale would turn on me for my decision, but that doesn't make me have to like it. Bioware should take it as a compliment that I was attached enough to a fictional character in their game to come express my disdain for their system. It was a TEMPORARY moment of anger, and I stand by everything I said at the time. Also I don't get my party members killed, I let them die.I refuse to fight in an ambush while they won't run with me. As a mage I can solo almost anything so that is my luxury to do so. One of the first things I said was THIS GAME IS NOT DIFFICULT. It may make you think about your battle tactics a bit more but I'd hardly call that difficult. There is no reason for me to lower the difficulty. According to you I may sound like a spoiled brat but from my perspective you sound like a mindless idiot. But we all have our own opinions don't we. Moving on.



Sabrina not being able to ambush enemies while constantly getting ambushed by enemies is indeed annoying to say the least. I've taken to constantly switching my party to hold and then triggering the enemies and running back to my group. It works fairly well for me even if it's not a true ambush, plus dragging them to my party lets me kill a couple enemies before they even get there so it's not all that bad.



As far as the choice concequence thing goes, I was mad at the time but now that Allister is fighting like a champ I could care less...he's funny........just nowhere near as funny as Shale.I love when her and the "swamp witch" go at it but I'll have to start another play through to enjoy that again. So I suppose to be more accurate I don't dislike the concequnce system, I dislike the fact Shale left. I've killed quite a few playable characters with no second thought so really it all comes down to favoritism.



I just like to be a smart ass which should be obvious by reading if only partially any one of my posts, and the same goes for my in game persona. I've already said this earlier after I calmed down a bit and I appreciate you responding respectfully, you get what you give

[jsteinhauer]

The last RPG's I played were Baldur's Gate 2 and the Icewind Dale games, which were very similar. I concur with the OP's assessment of party control in this game (I play on the PS3, and it may be different on the PC). In those old games, I could choose a party formation and arrange the party members in the formation, and they would generally follow that formation. Combat management was also much more sophisticated in that you could pause the game at the end of each round (not cheesy in a true turn-based RPG) and direct the action of every party member. The closest you get to that in this game is pulling up the stupid radial menu for each character in real time. It's cumbersome.



While the "hold" feature makes your party stay put, it does not allow them to fight where you want them to fight, unless they are using ranged weapons or magic. The tactics slots just don't accomplish things as well as pausing at the end of rounds.



The glitch with the radial menu during combat, while unacceptable, deserving of a fix, can be easily overcome. If it happens to you on the PS3, hit the START (pause) button and then go back (circle button). The glitch will be fixed.

[Sabriana]

Ha! Another one of my gripes. The tactics feature is so very limited, without the mod "advanced tactics" my mage would have to be the one to become the healer. There is no way to direct Wynne or Morrigan to use 'group heal' and 'revival' on their own. Given the fact that those two alone are the major reasons to bring a healer along, that's messed up.

They also don't work they way they should. For example, I have Sten set to use healing potions when his health drops below 75, but my mage always has to help him out. What? He just forgets?

[menasure]

Sabriana wrote...

Ha! Another one of my gripes. The tactics feature is so very limited, without the mod "advanced tactics" my mage would have to be the one to become the healer. There is no way to direct Wynne or Morrigan to use 'group heal' and 'revival' on their own. Given the fact that those two alone are the major reasons to bring a healer along, that's messed up.
They also don't work they way they should. For example, I have Sten set to use healing potions when his health drops below 75, but my mage always has to help him out. What? He just forgets?

maybe ... or his potions are still on cooldown or empty or you put that command somewhere at the bottom of the tactics list so anything else available gets executed first whenever possible or he is stunned, paralyzed whatever ... Sten is not particulary buggy on his own in the pc version, unlike shale.
i do not really like to play on "full automatic" anyway myself (though with a mage as healer and my current party i sometimes can even when fighting head on) but if something goes wrong it is pretty easy to correct on the pc with the pauze button.

i agree on the walking into obvious traps but when i look at the videos on youtube seeing hardcore player X in action i can see how devs want to make up for the AI not being able to handle players using every possible exploit while calling it a tactic. some turn freak pulling and running into a sport, the only shame is that the devs have started to incorporate it in their basic setup for fights because a whole generation of mo gamers seems to expect it but you can still play more regular when using particular party setups.
the simple truth is: every developer is trying to enhance their combat AI but no AI is ever sufficient to beat a player when players do not play under the same set of rules as the AI or when the player figures out what the AI does. on the other hand i have seen few games who apply "learning" scripts and adapt their tactics for tendencies a specific player has while playing. that is putting the I in the A but like i said few developers seem to apply this technique nowadays and when it is done then mainly in strategic games.

when complaining about losing party members ... i really do not think it is a bad thing, though the implementation could have been better. do you really expect to keep shale after you side with a mad woman who wants to turn everyone into gollems knowing how shale "feels" about being one? i do not blame a game for pointing out my own stupidity .... same thing a decent AI would do really. it is only a problem because the number of player characters is not unlimited. in the games where they are just that i sometimes play with a "stay death" principle because taking the punishment adds to the realism, like i did sometimes in this game also.

Modifié par menasure, 31 décembre 2009 - 02:05 .

[Sabriana]

I'll try to move it up a bit, it's around the middle somewhere now. I have 'threaten', 'taunt', and intercept anything that threatens the mage/ranger lined up first. I'll see how that will work out.
Sten is unfortunately very buggy in my game. His quest doesn't work at all, the journal never updates after talking to Farik (sp?). Yes, I can still do the quest, such as getting the sword back from Dwyn, but I can only equip Sten with it like I equip all my other party-members. It's never an option to hand it over to him as a so called gift. Bummer.
But then again, my mid-range laptop is not quite the ideal platform for a game such as DA:O

Edited to add: Shale is completely bug-free in my games. Go figure.

Modifié par Sabriana, 31 décembre 2009 - 02:04 .

[menasure]

Sabriana wrote...

I'll try to move it up a bit, it's around the middle somewhere now. I have 'threaten', 'taunt', and intercept anything that threatens the mage/ranger lined up first. I'll see how that will work out.
Sten is unfortunately very buggy in my game. His quest doesn't work at all, the journal never updates after talking to Farik (sp?). Yes, I can still do the quest, such as getting the sword back from Dwyn, but I can only equip Sten with it like I equip all my other party-members. It's never an option to hand it over to him as a so called gift. Bummer.
But then again, my mid-range laptop is not quite the ideal platform for a game such as DA:O

Edited to add: Shale is completely bug-free in my games. Go figure.

mm i think you might be seeing the interruptions in attacks while using stun and throw over skills like pommel strike and such. these appear to have almost the same effect on the one using them if you push the pauze button a lot but in reality these only lasts a split second. the combat movements seem to work better while you just keep things running and while using the "follow" setting -though you need a decent tank to use that all the time-. what most experience with shale is that he really seems to ignore ennemies from time to time when he is not attacked and he needs to be corrected manually then.

Modifié par menasure, 31 décembre 2009 - 02:15 .

[Legion-001]

I think I understand the OP's point about companions... A perfect example of this is bringing Morrigan to Redcliff, where you either swap her out of the party or you are guaranteed to gain her disapproval because she doesn't like the you helping the people of Redcliff, there's no option to sneak into the castle without helping the people nor is there an option to persuade Morrigan that what you are doing is purely for your own long-term benefit, this has got to be one of the most glaring examples of poor writing in the entire game.
If you have a character in the party and in order to continue the main quest a certain choice MUST be made, if a companion doesn't like that choice then there either should be an alternative choice or a method to convince the companion, this is especially a requirement of the main quest, sidequests are optional and thus avoidable.

Modifié par Legion-001, 31 décembre 2009 - 02:59 .

[jennamarae]

Legion-001 wrote...

A perfect example of this is bringing Morrigan to Redcliff, where you either swap her out of the party or you are guaranteed to gain her disapproval because she doesn't like the you helping the people of Redcliff.

You don't have to help the people in Redcliff. You can just leave and come back later skipping the town battle all together. No approval loss that way.



Back to the OP, I understand the frustration. First time I played through Orzammar with Shale I didn't know she'd turn on me either, and since it was the first time I'd gotten her I took her with me. I hadn't yet tried saving the anvil so went that route only to find myself yelling at the screen when she turned. Did the same thing with the urn, Wynne, and Leliana. Made the mistake of taking them both with me when I decided to pour the blood in and didn't know they'd both attack me and once again found myself yelling at the screen. Actually, come to think of it, I've had all the companions turn on me at some point. Though never all in the same play through.

This is one of the few games that can actually make me angry or sad, which I take as a sign of good writing since I'm that involved with the characters that I actually have an emotional response to some events.

[Sidney]

jennamarae wrote...

Back to the OP, I understand the frustration. First time I played through Orzammar with Shale I didn't know she'd turn on me either, and since it was the first time I'd gotten her I took her with me. I hadn't yet tried saving the anvil so went that route only to find myself yelling at the screen when she turned. Did the same thing with the urn, Wynne, and Leliana. Made the mistake of taking them both with me when I decided to pour the blood in and didn't know they'd both attack me and once again found myself yelling at the screen. Actually, come to think of it, I've had all the companions turn on me at some point. Though never all in the same play through.

If I have any gripe it is that they don't grouse enough.

Example after the Werewolves battle I ended the curse. I then shook down the newly freed people and then killed them all when their "gift" wasn't quite good enough. I was waiting to see the Allistair Disapproves thing but didn't get any reaction to what was point blank cold blooded murder. I get that that "event" isn't coded to have a reaction but I'd like to see the approval be more all present in the game.

I'd also like to see the abilities not tied into approval - the incentive is to be nice (as the NPC defines it) to everyone. My reason for exploring these characters shouldn't be the punp up their stats but just to learn about and interact with them.

[Obadiah]

coldlogic82 wrote...
...
You can't nullify the circle without killing Wynne, nor can you destroy the ashes without her leaving... EVEN IF SHE'S NOT IN YOUR PARTY AT THE TIME.
...

Yes you can. I had Gregoir do the Annullment, and Wynne gave me a plus 3 approval. You just have to not jump to conclusions ("they're ALL SUSPECT!!!") while exploring the Circle Tower.

[jennamarae]

Sidney wrote...
If I have any gripe it is that they don't grouse enough.

No arguments from me there. There've been quite a few times when I'll do something and then sit there going "Really? You have nothing to say about that? .... Really?"

Example after the Werewolves battle I ended the curse. I then shook down the newly freed people and then killed them all when their "gift" wasn't quite good enough. I was waiting to see the Allistair Disapproves thing but didn't get any reaction to what was point blank cold blooded murder. I get that that "event" isn't coded to have a reaction but I'd like to see the approval be more all present in the game.

I didn't even know you could kill them.

I'd also like to see the abilities not tied into approval - the incentive is to be nice (as the NPC defines it) to everyone. My reason for exploring these characters shouldn't be the punp up their stats but just to learn about and interact with them.

In a way I can understand why it is though. If I knew how to do something and you wanted to learn but I didn't like you, why would I teach you? Why would you teach me if it was reversed? What I don't get is Morrigan, and this may be a 360 bug, being willing to teach you almost immediately but if you wait till she likes you more she refuses. Now that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Ya know, you said that Jrpgs are superior and it took me five minutes before I could post from all the laughing.



You're upset about characters getting mad at you and leaving. Well, lemme introduce you to roleplaying and consequences. Consequences are what give a narrative a point. If there is no consequence to your actions, why make the choice since it doesn't matter. I know, I know, as a Jrper, you aren't used to this concept of a story or narrative that makes sense so I'll cut you slack there.



As for your tactics and mage, I can see you can't program your companions worth a damn. Probably something else you didn't learn while playing Jrpgs. How quaint.



Now the glitches would be annoying though I've only dealt with dialog glitches in cut scenes so I can't properly relate. However, what you stated of glitches would be annoying as hell.



So far, the biggest points I can see can be countered thusly.



1. You hate melee classes so you can't program them

2. You can't program your mages because you can only get 20% out of them.

3. You're disappointed because you can't summon Bahamut or some obtuse polygonal monster as a final power.

4. You consider the androgynes and samey plot of Jrpgs to be superior thus you're an idiot.



The sad thing is that there isn't anything wrong with Jrpgs, I just find hardcore Jrpgers to be dolts and found nothing here to remove that stereotype in my head. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game, I really am but beyond that... Nevermind, just go off and enjoy your Nipphon obsession.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Sabriana wrote...

Ha! Another one of my gripes. The tactics feature is so very limited, without the mod "advanced tactics" my mage would have to be the one to become the healer. There is no way to direct Wynne or Morrigan to use 'group heal' and 'revival' on their own. Given the fact that those two alone are the major reasons to bring a healer along, that's messed up.
They also don't work they way they should. For example, I have Sten set to use healing potions when his health drops below 75, but my mage always has to help him out. What? He just forgets?

Um, did you check what priority you set healing potions to? If it is priority 12, then ya, he is gonna die. Then again, there are also build issues to consider, equipment issues to consider, etc.

[Layn]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Really man. Listen to yourself. You're acting like a spoiled brat, demanding that everyone in the game acts like you want them to act. They act like they're suppsoed to act. Ya know - like real people. Because if a character like your existed for real, he would run out of friends REAL fast...and end up dead or on gallows or something.

No, it ain't the games fault.

i think i agree with Lotion... how is that possible???

heat2008 wrote...

Lotion, did you type all that just to
see yourself type? I think you did.

he does that, but it does sound bratty some of the things you are complaining about. And your warden sounds like a real jerk.
just as you have the right to vent, we also have (specially being the venting on an online forum) the right to point out that you are getting worked up over something ridiculous.

Truthfully I knew shale would turn on me for my decision, but
that doesn't make me have to like it. Bioware should take it as a
compliment that I was attached enough to a fictional character in their
game to come express my disdain for their system.

so you are happy that a character is real enough to make you care but angry that its so real that it hates your character for being a jerk? i guess ill never understand.

I refuse to fight in
an ambush while they won't run with me.

as was said, select all, click whereever you want to go. worked for me. dunnot know how it works on the console versions though (i guess that might be the problem).

One of the first things I said
was THIS GAME IS NOT DIFFICULT.

put the difficulty higher?
btw. is the PC version more difficult? i heard something like that.

on bethesda: i liked Morrowind, and have yet to try playing Arena and Daggerfall. But i didn't like Oblivion much and have the same bad opinion about Fallout 3 (but i still consider them somewhat good games, just not as amazing as so many people make them seem).
on JRPGs: they often feel too "gamey" (i guess) to me. and for example Final Fantasy (the game most often used as the posterchild for JRPG) keeps breaking the flow with random battles in seperate battle screens, and fights are just a cycle of selecting fight or the appropriate spell with occasional item use. your level/stats does a lot more talking. they force me to fight more often (some grinding involved), and the stories and characters dont grip me as much. and also in this case, while i seem very negative, i do like JRPGs and play them, just not as much as WRPGs (prefferably with a focused story, and not sandboxy like Bethesdas stuff)

jsteinhauer  wrote...

The last RPG's I played were Baldur's Gate 2 and the Icewind Dale
games, which were very similar. I concur with the OP's assessment of
party control in this game (I play on the PS3, and it may be different
on the PC). In those old games, I could choose a party formation and
arrange the party members in the formation, and they would generally
follow that formation. Combat management was also much more
sophisticated in that you could pause the game at the end of each round
(not cheesy in a true turn-based RPG) and direct the action of every
party member. The closest you get to that in this game is pulling up
the stupid radial menu for each character in real time. It's cumbersome.

yeah its different on the PC. You can pause and do all that. you cant however queue up commands, so you have to tell people where to go, let them do it and then pause again and then tell what to do and so on.

Modifié par Crrash, 31 décembre 2009 - 05:59 .

[robertthebard]

heat2008 wrote...

I play with who I like, it's that simple. If I don't like a character I will neither play with nor equip them. You speak of good writing and it is that writing that gets people attached to specific characters. You say you'd get mad because I killed your dog, but if when we first met I hate a dog bone necklace and a decapitated dog head in my sack you should assume I'd have no reservations on killing yours. The little bastard shouldn't have growled at me, got what was coming to it. Afterall when you first met me I told you I desired power, so if a situation arises where I am to obtain it it's obvious the choice I'd make.

The game gives you clear choices and personality when you first meet people, Shale has always been Shale just like Morrigan was always a ****. There is no surprise down the line.The first thing Shale does when you aquire her is kill a chicken, from then on out she constantly talks about squishing birds...or anything fleshy.

So I will have to disagree with you, it IS the games fault. Because I have no choice but to chose a specific choice if I want to keep a character in which case it is not a choice but a mandatory answer. That means I can't play how I want and keep the characters I want to keep. Either play the game how you like or play the game how you're forced. Would you rather be cut and bleed to death or pushed off a cliff, your choice.

No, it's not the game's fault.  You chose the option, even with the clues given in dialog that Shayle would prefer you to destroy the anvil.  You then can't figure out why she got mad?  One major selling point to this game is NPC's that actually think for themselves.  It's like playing an MMO, only the other characters are controlled by the computer.  If we're gaming in an MMO, and you decide you want to do something I don't want to do, I'm dropping your party.  If you flag up and try to kill me, I'll fight you, and if you die, and it's possible, I'll loot all your stuff too.

Choices have consequences, positive consequences are often referred to as rewards.  When I'm going to do something I know a party member isn't going to like, I don't bring them.  This will not always solve it, but it might.  Regardless, you made the decision, and must now live with it.  It's not like all you did was tell Shayle that her crystals made her look wider, after all.

[menasure]

[quote]Crrash wrote...

....
btw. is the PC version more difficult? i heard something like that. [/quote]

[/quote]

at the very least it used to be. an unpatched pc version struck me as insanely difficult for some of the fights at normal setting but i also had little clues on how the particular mechanics and stats worked in game. i can tell you though that the last few patches have made things a lot easier, be it partly because of a few fixes besides the rescaling of some fights. the notes for these patch downloads also mention that many of these adjustments were already included in the console versions and owners of both versions have confirmed that the pc game is more difficult.
still the console version has a more limited hotbar for example so it probably feels in a part more a slightly different game than a mere matter of being more or less difficult than the pc version. the difficulty you face is also extremely dependent on what you effectively do in game.

you can play on easy and having a harder time than someone else who plays on nightmare if you only make it yourself difficult enough by not using certain tactics and items ... deliberately or becaus you simply have no clue that you really should use them. some guys play without potions or try to solo everything and some even play with a stay death principle: game over really means restarting for them instead of reloading.

Modifié par menasure, 31 décembre 2009 - 06:04 .