892 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

JPN17 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

What always gets me confused is folks demanding that Bioware tell them whether Shepard is alive or dead.

Aren't you guys the ones that want as much control over your decisions as possible? So when Bioware gives you the decision to end all decisions (Did Shepard survive the Destroy ending?), you want that decision and the agency attached to it taken away from you?

There is no decision. Just ambiguity.

Yes there is a decision, but it's one made outside the game.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

The image we are given to work with doesn't lend itself well to imagining Shepard's long-term survival.

It's like Gandalf said in Lord of the Rings: "I must have something to work with.  I cannot burn snow"

How come it doesn't? If you saw that in a movie you'd know the guy didn't die. Is a game just different for you?

Come on, Alan.  I know you've seen my posts on this in other threads.  The circumstances surrounding Shepard's situation in that ending make survival beyond the next few moments highly unlikely.  It's every bit as bad as the Normandy crash in the original ending.  Remember the outcry there?

I remember. But I never actually understand these posts in the other threads, either. 

And I always thought the outcry over the Normandy crash was kind of silly. Those bad interpretations required people to headcanon even more space magic to make the ending worse, since on the facts as presented Normandy's no more than a few weeks from Earth, and if that's the case the planet's almost certainly colonized. Not to mention the ludicrous nova theory.

And given there will be no more "Shepard's Story" beyond whatever DLC gets churned out for ME3, that cliffhanger will never be resolved. 

Yep. Like I said in that other thread today, it's like Shane. Does Shane live? If you like to interpret it that way. Otherwise, not.

[N7 Assass1n]

Eterna5 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Toolbox 24 wrote...

Yes. Repeatedly. Casey said it. Miek Gamble & Mac Walters have said it. Jessica and I have said it.

Commander Shepard's adventures took place in ME1-ME3 (and DLCs). We are working on another ME game, but it is not a Commander Shepard game.

We have no other details as to what the new ME game will be, who what where when, etc it will be. It will likely be over a year before we start talking about what the new game will be, but you're welcome to contribute what you would like to see in it until then.

quote from Casey Hudson in response to the ending controversy:

“And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive
feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not
the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.”

This quote seems contradictory now, unless he was only referring to pre-ending ME3 DLC, which would be LAME.

Good God.  No wonder they want to just shake the Etch A Sketch and start completely over with a new game.  They can't seem to do anything ME3 related without falling all over themselves.

Yes. You misinterpreting a quote is bioware falling all lver themselves.

No, he's actually right. There was no misinterpretation. It is pretty clear by that statement, yet this comes out now. Its that kind of ambiguous behaviour that has the community up in arms. Also, what is the point of keeping your saves like they said in a statement early March? With the multiple endings and the entire "Canon debacle" (Destroy Ending would still satisfy majority of the community) it would still pose too many variables to make another game. That, or they could be lazy (Which they did with ME3) and make some universal convergence of problem set aside from each ending, like "Synthesis ended up failing" or Shepard couldn't retain control but blew up the Reapers through subsequent programming...

[Velocithon]

plfranke wrote...

Eryri wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Mr. House wrote... If Shepards story is truly over, can we get a good ending for her that gives her closure instead of having to headcanon it?

+10

+11. 

+12

+13

[AlanC9]

N7 Assass1n wrote...


No, he's actually right. There was no misinterpretation. It is pretty clear by that statement, yet this comes out now. Its that kind of ambiguous behaviour that has the community up in arms.

"This is not the last you'll see of Commander Shepard" means a sequel with Shepard in it? Not DLC? Hmm.... guess I didn't get that memo, since I thought he was talking about DLC too.

[JPN17]

RiouHotaru wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

What always gets me confused is folks demanding that Bioware tell them whether Shepard is alive or dead.

Aren't you guys the ones that want as much control over your decisions as possible? So when Bioware gives you the decision to end all decisions (Did Shepard survive the Destroy ending?), you want that decision and the agency attached to it taken away from you?

There is no decision. Just ambiguity.

Yes there is a decision, but it's one made outside the game.

If it's made outside the game then it has no bearing on it. I never put any thought into whether Shepard lives or dies because I shouldn't have to do that. ME3 was supposed to be the "epic conclusion to Shepard's story." Yet they didn't finish it. The only thing I'm left to wonder is why I paid $80 for this thing when I could have created my own conclusion for free. I've seen people who have come up with hundreds of backstories and other scenarios that their Shepard has experienced. None are canon and none affect the game whatsoever.

[N7 Assass1n]

AlanC9 wrote...

N7 Assass1n wrote...


No, he's actually right. There was no misinterpretation. It is pretty clear by that statement, yet this comes out now. Its that kind of ambiguous behaviour that has the community up in arms.

"This is not the last you'll see of Commander Shepard" means a sequel with Shepard in it? Not DLC? Hmm.... guess I didn't get that memo, since I thought he was talking about DLC too.

And what does DLC give the community? No sense of closure thats for sure. It adds more content to an unfinished game. Its great to see that a company can defile there most iconic character like that.

[Ozida]

Velocithon wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Eryri wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Mr. House wrote... If Shepards story is truly over, can we get a good ending for her that gives her closure instead of having to headcanon it?

+10

+11. 

+12

+13

+14

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

And in retrospect, taking away our customized Shepards and burning them as we watch was probably a bad route to go with for an ending, huh?

I thought Shepard walking into an explosion was pretty stupid, but the rest of the Destroy ending, IMO ofcourse, isn't as offensive/terrible as you're making it seem.

I'm talking about forcing Shepard's death in virtually all endings.  Not a good way to treat customized characters.  This is Mass Effect, not Halo, and Shepard isn't Master Chief. 

I wish Bioware remembered that.

Well he doesn't die in every ending, so your point is moot.

I also didn't know there was a precedent set about how customized characters' journeys should end.

IIRC Halo Reach's customizeable protagonist dies at the end no matter what. I thought Reach's ending was pretty good too.

You also say that Bioware shouldn't copy Halo and yet you want them to do exactly what Microsoft is doing....bringing back the same protagonist from the previous trilogy into a new one.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:18 .

[Pkxm]

another one bites the dust! and another one gone and another one gone..

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Another ME game? Sure, I'll get it ....... a year after it hit the shelves.

[N7 Assass1n]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

And in retrospect, taking away our customized Shepards and burning them as we watch was probably a bad route to go with for an ending, huh?

I thought Shepard walking into an explosion was pretty stupid, but the rest of the Destroy ending, IMO ofcourse, isn't as offensive/terrible as you're making it seem.

I'm talking about forcing Shepard's death in virtually all endings.  Not a good way to treat customized characters.  This is Mass Effect, not Halo, and Shepard isn't Master Chief. 

I wish Bioware remembered that.

Well he doesn't die in every ending, so your point is moot.

I also didn't know there was a precedent set about how customized characters' journeys should end.

IIRC Halo Reach's customizeable protagonist dies at the end no matter what. I thought Reach's ending was pretty good too.

You also say that Bioware shouldn't copy Halo and yet you want them to do exactly what Microsoft is doing....bringing back the same protagonist from the previous trilogy into a new one.

Its clearly highlighted that Reach is a prequel to the overall Halo plot. Plus, Reach's overall plot was taken from the established lore from the books and was conveyed exceptionally. Its funny that an FPS game has tighter lore than a damn RPG...

[Eterna]

N7 Assass1n wrote...

No, he's actually right. There was no misinterpretation. It is pretty clear by that statement, yet this comes out now. Its that kind of ambiguous behaviour that has the community up in arms. Also, what is the point of keeping your saves like they said in a statement early March? With the multiple endings and the entire "Canon debacle" (Destroy Ending would still satisfy majority of the community) it would still pose too many variables to make another game. That, or they could be lazy (Which they did with ME3) and make some universal convergence of problem set aside from each ending, like "Synthesis ended up failing" or Shepard couldn't retain control but blew up the Reapers through subsequent programming...

ModEdit: excessive portions of quote pyramid deleted as spam
I still think you've misinterpreted that quote. You saw what you wanted to see.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 19 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[Jadebaby]

Someone probably already countered this, but whatever...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Never cared for the old or new Bioware. I only care about individual games: ME3 is one I happen to like. So I'm greatful for the work the people at Bioware put into it. I love the whole trilogy, and I never felt betrayed by Bioware. For sweet mother of mercy's sake, it's just a game developing company. It can't "betray" you.

 
Poppy-****, the level of immersion so many people put into their Shepard's, was betrayed at the ending. The fact that control and synthesis get closure, and destroy doesn't. Feels like a jab at those who actually wanted to do what we were trained to do through out the whole series.

You either fall for their marketing devices and feel disappointed about the result, because it does not meet your expectations

 
Expectations that THEY created, they are not all innocent. They made so many pre-release quotes and then did the exact opposite of each one. So you can't parade around like people's expectations were unrealistic because THEY created those expectations.

or you happen to like it. You don't like what they do, just don't buy their products. Simple
But betrayal... especially their own product. I mean they could go and release a game titled ME4 in which you go around farting on the faces of Shepard's LIs with a troll faced reaper husks, it would be their business.

Still better than ME3 ending.
 

It's their creation they can do anything they want with it. So they did with ME3: it's their product of creativity. Not ours. You happen to dislike the outcome. Fair enough.  ... but betrayal...   What is this a soap opera?

Yes, in fact, it almost is. Giving us characters to romance and our own decisions. That creates that level of immersion I was talking about before. So you can't blame people if they are still upset about how it ended because at the end of the day. It's just because they are THAT passionate about the games. So really, anyone talking about being betrayed, is only a credit to BioWare's character writing.

Also, I never said I felt betrayed by BioWare specifically. I said that playing ME4 without a proper conclusion to Shepard's story would be betraying my emotions. Shepard's my favourite protagonist in any game ever, largely in part because of Jen Hale's amazing VA'ing. So there's no way I'm moving on to another game while she lies there ****ing bleeding out in some space rubble.

As for being civilized my dear friend. Yeah, saying "****. you!" is really the way to make your point. But, hell... it must be a matter of upbringing and intelligence I guess... we are all different after all.

No, it's a result of being passionate as I said before. And that's only a credit to BioWare for creating that passion. If you resort to little insults about intelligence or upbringing whenever someone swears. Then I feel very sorry for you. Too many pretentious a-holes on this forum, I say.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

I remember. But I never actually understand these posts in the other threads, either. 

And I always thought the outcry over the Normandy crash was kind of silly. Those bad interpretations required people to headcanon even more space magic to make the ending worse, since on the facts as presented Normandy's no more than a few weeks from Earth, and if that's the case the planet's almost certainly colonized. Not to mention the ludicrous nova theory.

Nevertheless, it got clarified, and pretty well done, too (one of the things EC actually did right).  All it took was showing the Normandy lift off again.

Yep. Like I said in that other thread today, it's like Shane. Does Shane live? If you like to interpret it that way. Otherwise, not.

It's a lot easier to interpret Shane living than Shepard, given Shane was still upright as he started riding off.  Shepard? Much less clear

[Jadebaby]

ModEdit: excessive quote pyramid deleted as spam+15

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 19 octobre 2012 - 11:35 .

[Morty Smith]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Yes. Repeatedly. Casey said it. Miek Gamble & Mac Walters have said it. Jessica and I have said it.

Commander Shepard's adventures took place in ME1-ME3 (and DLCs). We are working on another ME game, but it is not a Commander Shepard game.

We have no other details as to what the new ME game will be, who what where when, etc it will be. It will likely be over a year before we start talking about what the new game will be, but you're welcome to contribute what you would like to see in it until then.

You listed a group of people that said many things, look how that turned out.

<3

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, even though I'm apparently the minority, I'm excited that the next Mass Effect game doesn't have Shepard. Shepard's story finished on the highest note possible by defeated, one way or another, the Reaper threat. I wonder if we'll have race selection, or have another set protagonist, in which case my money's on thne kid in the Stargazer scene all grown up.

[Squallypo]

ModEdit: excessive quote pyramid deleted as spam+16

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 19 octobre 2012 - 11:35 .

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

And in retrospect, taking away our customized Shepards and burning them as we watch was probably a bad route to go with for an ending, huh?

I thought Shepard walking into an explosion was pretty stupid, but the rest of the Destroy ending, IMO ofcourse, isn't as offensive/terrible as you're making it seem.

I'm talking about forcing Shepard's death in virtually all endings.  Not a good way to treat customized characters.  This is Mass Effect, not Halo, and Shepard isn't Master Chief. 

I wish Bioware remembered that.

Well he doesn't die in every ending, so your point is moot.

I also didn't know there was a precedent set about how customized characters' journeys should end.

IIRC Halo Reach's customizeable protagonist dies at the end no matter what. I thought Reach's ending was pretty good too.

You also say that Bioware shouldn't copy Halo and yet you want them to do exactly what Microsoft is doing....bringing back the same protagonist from the previous trilogy into a new one.

One deliberately ambiguous ending.  Half credit.

If it's our character, we should have a say in that character's fate.  Especially when "your choices matter" DAO did it well.  Mass Effect three laughed at us and went "Nope!  Problem?  ::insert trollface here::"

And yes, Halo is a set story.  Your choices don't matter there (either).  Thank you for proving my point

I never said I wanted Shepard back for ME4.  in fact, I said that if Shepard got a proper ending in ME3, I'd be fine with a new protagnist.  What I don't like is Bioware essentially abandoning Shepard to this terrible fate.  That is a dealbreaker for me.

[shepskisaac]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

And given there will be no more "Shepard's Story" beyond whatever DLC gets churned out for ME3, that cliffhanger will never be resolved. 

Yep. Like I said in that other thread today, it's like Shane. Does Shane live? If you like to interpret it that way. Otherwise, not.

Except that there's no cliffhanger. Even excluding all meta evidence as file names and script notes, the construct of this scene and it's presence in the highest ending coupled with lack of nameplate being placed on Memorial Wall makes it 100% clear: he's alive. Sorry people but even a 5 years old kid would get such utterly simple message.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 19 octobre 2012 - 10:39 .

[yukon fire]

Kroitz wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Yes. Repeatedly. Casey said it. Miek Gamble & Mac Walters have said it. Jessica and I have said it.

Commander Shepard's adventures took place in ME1-ME3 (and DLCs). We are working on another ME game, but it is not a Commander Shepard game.

We have no other details as to what the new ME game will be, who what where when, etc it will be. It will likely be over a year before we start talking about what the new game will be, but you're welcome to contribute what you would like to see in it until then.

You listed a group of people that said many things, look how that turned out.

<3

There are a great many things that could be said about those people, but honest would not be one of them

[Iakus]

IsaacShep wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

And given there will be no more "Shepard's Story" beyond whatever DLC gets churned out for ME3, that cliffhanger will never be resolved. 

Yep. Like I said in that other thread today, it's like Shane. Does Shane live? If you like to interpret it that way. Otherwise, not.

Except that there's no cliffhanger. Even excluding all meta evidence as file names and script notes, the construct of this scene and it's presence in the highest ending coupled with lack of nameplate being placed on Memorial Wall makes it 100% clear: he's alive. Sorry people but even a 5 years old kid would get such utterly simple message.

And I can say that Shepard's irregular breathing, clearly severe injuries, his location on the Citadel being an area unknown to anyone else, the fact that everyone save the LI appears to believe Shepard is dead anyway (as evidenced by the making of a nameplate for both Shepard and Anderson), Makes it very extremely unclear Shepard will stay alive. 

Heck, we don't even see Shepard stand up

Shane, at least, was still in good enough shape to climb onto a horse.