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Bioware: "Absolutely no more Shepard. We don´t want Shepard 2.0" New Hero for Mass Effect 4


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#751
Dr_Extrem

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AlanC9 wrote...

As long as the thread's been necro'd anyway....

Dr_Extrem wrote...
the inconsistancies regarding the me1-2 plot (humanities place and the frequent mentioning of dark energy) and the 3rd game are solid leads, that indicate a plotchange after the 2nd game.  


Like I said, to believe this you have to believe that the devs are simply lying when they say that they never had written out a trilogy. After ME 2 they had a few different ideas for what to do next, dark energy being one they decided not to use. And for good reason, considering where they were going to go with that one.

 why recruit/buy the geth, if they are the damocles sword of the cycle? illogical.


They made useful tools, didn't they? What's illogical about using useful tools?

the conflict (organics vs. synthetics) being the driving force of the reapers, came up very late during the story.

Well, if you mean why the Reapers do the cycles, then sure. But organic/synthetic conflict itself is all over ME1. 


according to the catalyst logic, synthetics will destroy organics. by using them, the catalyst intervenes with the cycle itself.
the geth were passive for 300 years - why stirr them up to kill organics, if they are the reason, the reapers do the cycles in the first place? they could just have killed the synthetics, let saren open the citadel and "preserve" organics, before they construct new, less passive synthetics. the geth were were not very subtile - they raided eden prime and made it into the news. not the best way, if your agent is a spectre, who can access the citadel - without any questions - and can stay "in character" until the very end - then, it would be too late to stop him.

the mainplot was about stopping the reapers. the struggle between organics and synthetics was just a sideplot.

in addition, the geth were under the control of the reapers - so the synthetics vs. organics plot, becomes in fact a reaper vs. organics plot.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:08 .


#752
silverexile17s

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xsdob wrote...

Why do people have such narrow minded thoughts when it comes to a sequel? It's either gotta canonize a single ending choice or be set in the far future?

Not really, no. They can just use the same solutions they used in ME2 and ME3, and have the outcomes shown with news sound clips, some npc dialouge, and codex entries on life in the galaxy today.

But the main story would supposedly be different with each ending.
In one, there are no synthetics, or they are being rebuilt.
In another, there are Reapers monotoring everything like the Judges from "Dredd."
In the last, we have everyone being techno-organic almagations.

There is no way that a single game can built three storylines like that, that are each different depending on the ending chosen, as a plotline that works well for Destroy would not work for Control and Synthesis, and vise-versa. Not to mention that all the side-quests would be different as well, not to mention who is alive, dead, or even born in each.
It's just not possible for a single game to do that, without insane ammounts of codeing and data. It would be the size of a full MMO game. It's beyond phesable right now, as they do not have funding like tha for Mass Effect.
Maybe somewhere in the future. But NOT today, or the next year.

#753
clarkusdarkus

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Shepard.....Sheparrrd.........Sheparrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd.

#754
Mixon

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Mass Shift's Shepard is not a Shepard but he is Shepard, thats I like! :D

#755
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

chrissicross wrote...

I think it's good to begin something new.

Shepard's story is over. He deserved a better ending though.

Its nothing new but Shepard did have a good ending based on his/her established character.

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

“There is one thing we are absolutely sure of – there will be no more Shepard, and this franchise is finished.”

That's all I saw.

How is that when you're still here on BSN talking about ME.

Toolbox 24 wrote...

Thought they already said the ME3 was the end of Shepard's story arc?

Sadly some still need to be told this.

OdanUrr wrote...

No surprises there.

Yep!

1. BS.
Shepard had a horrible ending. It ripped off of Deus Ex completely, offered no real closure, and near invaladated playing any of the games. And that was not just Shepard's ending, but the ending to the entire trilogy. Making a game that follows up that  mess is likely impossible.

2...... WELL, DUH!!!!
BioWare Social Network, talking about a BioWare game. And you're actually shocked?

3. That was back when we were told Mass Effect was just a trilogy. No announcemnt of a 4th game had been made then.

#756
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

cavs25 wrote...

Thats cool, goodluck to bioware and the devs on mass effect 4
I won't be buying it, or any other mass effect game made.
Not because of the ending but because of the way this company treats it fans.

Bioware is better off without those so-called 'fans'.


Oh look, someone is trying to use the "fan" card Image IPB

To be fair the blame does belong to the "fans" just like what also happened with ME1 and ME2.

You can't blame fans for not wanting a series they love to go down in flames.
You have to ask yourself, "Is this series going to go anywhere without Shepard, when Shepard was half the series?"

Modifié par silverexile17s, 26 novembre 2012 - 06:51 .


#757
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

cavs25 wrote...

Thats cool, goodluck to bioware and the devs on mass effect 4
I won't be buying it, or any other mass effect game made.
Not because of the ending but because of the way this company treats it fans.

Bioware is better off without those so-called 'fans'.


Oh look, someone is trying to use the "fan" card Image IPB

To be fair the blame does belong to the "fans" just like what also happened with ME1 and ME2.


Funny how I never saw an uproar from ME1 or ME2 similar to ME3, none of the posts said anything about blame

So you never say the rage in ME1 from the inventory and Mako, which are tow of the prime examples.  I'm pretty you didn't miss that like the rage in ME2 with the removal of 75% of the RPG elements, auto-dialoge, more action, mining probes, and the Mako being removed to name a few.

Rage?
Those things didn't get reports by BBC, or rase thousands of dollars to get them altered, did they?
The mako from ME1 and the inventory in ME2 were complaints.
ME3's ending was a bloddy uproar.

#758
silverexile17s

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Owlman36 wrote...

I'm just going to point out everything wrong with this game, just to get it all out of the way.

Campaign
1. Quarians are a race of random people who have been photo-shopped by Bioware.
2. Mako is visible but not usable (really wanted to see if Alliance fixed Mako's tendency to bounce like a beach ball).
3. Poorly done side-quests or in this case "scan-quests" (In original Mass Effect you felt like a bad-**** and you didn't have to scan every system to find them).
4. Cameos that while fun at times www.youtube.com/watch most were really subtle or stupid.
5. Massive plot holes (Haestrom, Collectors return, permanency of Reaper control, etc)
6. 2 decent endings and 1 pointless ending *cough*synthesis*cough*
7. Leviathans don't do shiat!
8. Everyone has turned bisexual for no reason (they could have added a gay, straight, or bisexual section to the questioner).
9. Weird scene at the end with the old geezer and the kid that made no sense (made it seem like the guy made up the whole Mass Effect universe so he could tell his granddaughter a story).
10. No way to continue story forward. As Mordin said "Too many variables!"

Multiplayer
1. Excessively rude/racist community (can't play a game as a Drell without being called gay).
2. Basically just Firefight from Halo but with Mass Effect staplled to it.
3. Unlock system is like a fail version of Lost Planet 2's

I do agree. I have trouble believing in how the next game will recapture the love the community had previously for the game. It seems they literally backed themselves into a corner.

#759
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

So you never say the rage in ME1 from the inventory and Mako, which are tow of the prime examples.  I'm pretty you didn't miss that like the rage in ME2 with the removal of 75% of the RPG elements, auto-dialoge, more action, mining probes, and the Mako being removed to name a few.


I didn't say there were, I said they wasn't as big as the one for ME3

You didn't but those were bigger fish compared to what happened in ME3.

The exact opposate. ME3 was a whale, and the others were salmon, in terms of fish.

#760
silverexile17s

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Personally, what would get my intrest would be a game in that details the Morning War (the fight between the quarians and geth) and being able to play from both sides of the conflict. Play as a geth, AND a quarian.
That would get me intrested in the lore again.

#761
Blueprotoss

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silverexile17s wrote...

I agree.  But the problem is, how would they make a sequel?

I don't think that they could make a main plotline for each of the three endings, and the sidequests that would change because the main plot could not be the same for ALL of the options. Something that would work in a post-Destroy senario would fail in a post-Synthesis or post-Control senario. And I don't think that the current level of technology will handle that many questlines in a single game.

So, that would leave the option to either put the game so far into the future that everything Shepard did is near-forgotten, well past the effects of anything he did.
(Talking thousands of years, with either synthesis being rejected eventually, somehow, or synthetics being rebuilt long after Destroy, or that the Shepard A.I. controled Reapers dissapear and never return.)

OR.... Cannonize one of the spicific endings, like what was done for KotOR and TOR.

....That thought haunts me more then any other.

Cannonizing one spicific ending would make it seem like not even the final choice mattered in the game, if there is a connoncal ending that is chosen. It will make it seem like the ENTIRE TRILOGY was just a waste of time, effort, and money. And the backlash from THAT....

For BioWare, Cannonizing an ending is like tap-dancing, Gene Kelly-style, on an active Anti-Tank mine, while juggling live grenades, in front of a firing squad. It would kill the series Dead On Arrival.

Still, that's MY take on it. What's yours? Any ideas on how this can work?

Maybe that kid with the Stargazer. The one being told the story of "The Shepard."
THAT could be the protaginast, if it's made to be a follow-up to the series.

Also, how will this NOT be Shepard 2.0?  Shepard is the generic template for a player. Shepard was who and how we WANTED him to be. So, how can ANY protoganest for a ME RPG be otherwise? Shepard's template is the template for RPG Player Characters in general.
HOW do they intend to break that mold?

Its not impossible at all to create a sequel for ME especially when Shepard isn't the center of ME.  It sounds like you prefer that ME doesn't expand upon itself but most of the real fanbase wants to have another protagonist in the ME universe to control whether its another trilogy or a single installment.

LeandroBraz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Weird, I remember it was pretty clear that the trilogy was the end of Shepard's story long before ME3 was released.

I also remember it being perfectly clear that there was JUST ONE trilogy.
I don't remember a forth game in that announcement. Yet we have that. Since it WAS NOT part of the original announcement, no one knew for sure weather or not Shepard was or wasn't in it yet.

To be fair if ME was only a trilogy then most of the Expanded Universe would focus around Shepard and ME was announced as 3 games that would focus around Shepard, which means that Bioware never stated that ME was only a trilogy.  Don't forget about ME3: Infiltrator.

silverexile17s wrote...

I do agree. I have trouble believing in how the next game will recapture the love the community had previously for the game. It seems they literally backed themselves into a corner.

If thats in deed to be true then in reality ME3 would be the only ME game to receive complaints from the "fans".  Nothing is perfect thus nobody should expect perfection when its an impossible goal to reach in the 1st place.  Everyone will have their opinions whether they're biased or unbiased but at the end of the day opinions are just opinions.  If Bioware really backed themselves in a corner then ME would have ended with ME1.  Oddly enough that Owlman36 person reminds me of a Fox News rant especially with the one femenist trying to tear down ME1 for having "full blown nudity" when in reality it doesn't.

silverexile17s wrote...

The exact opposate. ME3 was a whale, and the others were salmon, in terms of fish.

Don't you mean how ME3 didn't change anything that was previously established in ME1 and ME2, which means you're trying to create a problem when there was no problem.  Its odd that you're going down the same path that always people to call BS n you based on how you're focusing on opinion rather then the facts.  Btw you can disagree with someone without trying to start a measuring contest even when you're losing before the ignition.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 27 novembre 2012 - 03:15 .


#762
Blueprotoss

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Ithurael wrote...

We already lost Cortana...:crying::crying:

I highly doubt that Cortana is "dead" just like the Didact.  Both will either appear later on in Halo 4 through Spartan Ops or in Halo 5.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Considering the variance of the endings of ME3, a sequel wouldn't be wise. Unless the story involves colonizing other galaxies and making no mention of ME3's endings, save small comments and the green tint in people's skin.

A prequel would be best, I think.

Maybe show the founding of the Systems Alliance, the discovery of the archives on Mars, the first Contact War, and humanity's rise in the galactic community.

To be fair if a sequel wasn't a wise decision then most of the AAA franchise even in this generation would have been scattered in the winds based on forgetfulness.  Ironically contraversies will always create a cliffnote for people to remember something and ME hasn't been free from a random cotraversy that a small group of people decide to lash out about something.  A prequel would cause more drama to appear based on how its easier to expand of the future rather then the past.

Blue Liara wrote...

Going to be a prequel. So they can escape the giant pile of crap that is the ending. You just can't reconcile the ending of the game. You can't make the same game where one the reapers are controlled by Shep, one shep lives, one synthetics are unified with humans. 

They made their mind up on a prequel in my opinion. Shameless money Grab. Any conflict or struggle of any grand consequence in a prequel would be meaningless because we already know the ending.

Hope I'm wrong. Hope it turns out to be a sequel and it turns out to be great. I hope that Bioware ACTUALLY listens to fans. Although I'm almost certain that they don't care.

Haters gonna hate especially when the "fans" will complain over anything and everything.  Its better to move on instead of wasting time even when someone hates something.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:58 .


#763
daigakuinsei

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Mass Effect without Shep doesn't really interest me that much.

#764
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

I agree.  But the problem is, how would they make a sequel?

I don't think that they could make a main plotline for each of the three endings, and the sidequests that would change because the main plot could not be the same for ALL of the options. Something that would work in a post-Destroy senario would fail in a post-Synthesis or post-Control senario. And I don't think that the current level of technology will handle that many questlines in a single game.

So, that would leave the option to either put the game so far into the future that everything Shepard did is near-forgotten, well past the effects of anything he did.
(Talking thousands of years, with either synthesis being rejected eventually, somehow, or synthetics being rebuilt long after Destroy, or that the Shepard A.I. controled Reapers dissapear and never return.)

OR.... Cannonize one of the spicific endings, like what was done for KotOR and TOR.

....That thought haunts me more then any other.

Cannonizing one spicific ending would make it seem like not even the final choice mattered in the game, if there is a connoncal ending that is chosen. It will make it seem like the ENTIRE TRILOGY was just a waste of time, effort, and money. And the backlash from THAT....

For BioWare, Cannonizing an ending is like tap-dancing, Gene Kelly-style, on an active Anti-Tank mine, while juggling live grenades, in front of a firing squad. It would kill the series Dead On Arrival.

Still, that's MY take on it. What's yours? Any ideas on how this can work?

Maybe that kid with the Stargazer. The one being told the story of "The Shepard."
THAT could be the protaginast, if it's made to be a follow-up to the series.

Also, how will this NOT be Shepard 2.0?  Shepard is the generic template for a player. Shepard was who and how we WANTED him to be. So, how can ANY protoganest for a ME RPG be otherwise? Shepard's template is the template for RPG Player Characters in general.
HOW do they intend to break that mold?

Its not impossible at all to create a sequel for ME especially when Shepard isn't the center of ME.  It sounds like you prefer that ME doesn't expand upon itself but most of the real fanbase wants to have another protagonist in the ME universe to control whether its another trilogy or a single installment.

LeandroBraz wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Weird, I remember it was pretty clear that the trilogy was the end of Shepard's story long before ME3 was released.

I also remember it being perfectly clear that there was JUST ONE trilogy.
I don't remember a forth game in that announcement. Yet we have that. Since it WAS NOT part of the original announcement, no one knew for sure weather or not Shepard was or wasn't in it yet.

To be fair if ME was only a trilogy then most of the Expanded Universe would focus around Shepard and ME was announced as 3 games that would focus around Shepard, which means that Bioware never stated that ME was only a trilogy.  Don't forget about ME3: Infiltrator.

silverexile17s wrote...

I do agree. I have trouble believing in how the next game will recapture the love the community had previously for the game. It seems they literally backed themselves into a corner.

If thats in deed to be true then in reality ME3 would be the only ME game to receive complaints from the "fans".  Nothing is perfect thus nobody should expect perfection when its an impossible goal to reach in the 1st place.  Everyone will have their opinions whether they're biased or unbiased but at the end of the day opinions are just opinions.  If Bioware really backed themselves in a corner then ME would have ended with ME1.  Oddly enough that Owlman36 person reminds me of a Fox News rant especially with the one femenist trying to tear down ME1 for having "full blown nudity" when in reality it doesn't.

silverexile17s wrote...

The exact opposate. ME3 was a whale, and the others were salmon, in terms of fish.

Don't you mean how ME3 didn't change anything that was previously established in ME1 and ME2, which means you're trying to create a problem when there was no problem.  Its odd that you're going down the same path that always people to call BS n you based on how you're focusing on opinion rather then the facts.  Btw you can disagree with someone without trying to start a measuring contest even when you're losing before the ignition.

1.Shepard is half the core of the mythos. The entire trilogy is centered around Shepard. The other half of the mythos is the Reapers, and the entire series is focused on the ripples that both create as Shepard tries to stop them.
Up to this point, Shepard HAS been the center of ME. That was almost half the point. Such a big emphesis is put on the actions of Shepard, that the series would no longer feel like Mass Effect anymore.

As an example, Halo 4 brought back the Master Chief, because in the end, they figured that Just as Shepard is iconic to ME, Master Chief is iconic to Halo, and they came to the conclusion that Halo is not Halo without Master Chief.

You cannot easily start fresh when near the entire series was centered around the actions of the character you, for all intents and purposes, just killed off.

2. They announced a trilogy, and never said anything about a forth game, so people had hope that since a new game was not part of the initial announcement, that perhapse Shepard's story was not as finished as the trilogy made it out to be. They though that a forth game announced, after the planned trilogy, would be indicative of Shep's return. We had no knolodge of a new game beforehand, so open speculation was all to go on.

3. When did I say that any game is, or ever was, perfect? ALL games will have problems. Some minor, like the mako, and the inventory system. And some major, like the ending fiasco. Fan complaints are still feedback that can be drawn from to possibly improve a game.
And ME was nowhere near backed into a corner with the first game. At least from there, the story had an open-ended direction in could move forward from. That's not backed into a corner, and nothing involving ME1 could have done so, so I don't know where this "they would have stopped at ME1" opinion is comming from.
And  you yourself say, opinions are opinions, but what makes YOURS any more "Fact" then anyone else?

4. First off, that is how the game works. The last two are supposed to affect the third, not the other way around. Second, you claimed that the Mako and the Inventory System were bigger disputes, when the complaints on the Mako in ME1 and the Inventory in ME2 were small fish compaired to the whale of a dispute that was ME3's endings.
You did not state any factual source that discredits what I said. Google the BBC news report on Mass Effect 3's ending. That is my "proof of statement".
What is yours?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:54 .


#765
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

We already lost Cortana...:crying::crying:

I highly doubt that Cortana is "dead" just like the Didact.  Both will either appear later on in Halo 4 through Spartan Ops or in Halo 5.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Considering the variance of the endings of ME3, a sequel wouldn't be wise. Unless the story involves colonizing other galaxies and making no mention of ME3's endings, save small comments and the green tint in people's skin.

A prequel would be best, I think.

Maybe show the founding of the Systems Alliance, the discovery of the archives on Mars, the first Contact War, and humanity's rise in the galactic community.

To be fair if a sequel wasn't a wise decision then most of the AAA franchise even in this generation would have been scattered in the winds based on forgetfulness.  Ironically contraversies will always create a cliffnote for people to remember something and ME hasn't been free from a random cotraversy that a small group of people decide to lash out about something.  A prequel would cause more drama to appear based on how its easier to expand of the future rather then the past.

Blue Liara wrote...

Going to be a prequel. So they can escape the giant pile of crap that is the ending. You just can't reconcile the ending of the game. You can't make the same game where one the reapers are controlled by Shep, one shep lives, one synthetics are unified with humans. 

They made their mind up on a prequel in my opinion. Shameless money Grab. Any conflict or struggle of any grand consequence in a prequel would be meaningless because we already know the ending.

Hope I'm wrong. Hope it turns out to be a sequel and it turns out to be great. I hope that Bioware ACTUALLY listens to fans. Although I'm almost certain that they don't care.

Haters gonna hate especially when the "fans" will complain over anything and everything.  Its better to move on instead of wasting time even when someone hates something.

1. Well, what do you know. Something we actually agree on.
I hope Cortana is alive, but in all likelyhood, the rampancy thing may make her into the next games' villien

2. He means a sequal to This paritcular storyline with the endings. Not sequels in general, because that will always vary on numorus factors.
And the future of the endings doesn't really seem that easy to expand on. No matter which way the devs can go, trying to make a sequel on that messy dispute will be tripping a landmine, if they indeed go that route.
A prequel seems the safest route to go, until the backlash from the endings have cooled away completely.

3. I don't think you realize that if they do try to make a sequel this soon, it will backlash like the ending. Not after how volitile moving forward from any of those endings would be. Perhaps in the future, a sequel can be made, but if they have any intellegence, they will make a prequel or spin-off first.
And with how fast the next game was announced, it makes Blue Liara's supisions on trying to escape the memory of the trilogy's sour note ending all the more believable.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 28 novembre 2012 - 06:32 .


#766
silverexile17s

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So, I think that an ME game where we can play as both the quarians and the geth, against the backdrop of the Morning War would be cool. Play as both sides, and see the truth of the Morning War.
(I do not have total confidence in the integrety of Legion's recording, since he was able to alter the quarian's appearance to match their suited versions, giving the possibilaty of the recording being altered to remove anything implicating the geth of having blood on their hands)
Still, seeing the Morning War, with the geth side being like fighting in a rebellion, and freeing or liberating other captured geth. And the quarian side being trying to stop the geth, but gradually becoming a ME version of Halo: Reach, where they evntually overwhelm you as you are forced to pull out.

That would make a good ME game.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 29 novembre 2012 - 04:37 .


#767
Blueprotoss

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silverexile17s wrote...

1.Shepard is half the core of the mythos. The entire trilogy is centered around Shepard. The other half of the mythos is the Reapers, and the entire series is focused on the ripples that both create as Shepard tries to stop them. 
Up to this point, Shepard HAS been the center of ME. That was almost half the point. Such a big emphesis is put on the actions of Shepard, that the series would no longer feel like Mass Effect anymore.

As an example, Halo 4 brought back the Master Chief, because in the end, they figured that Just as Shepard is iconic to ME, Master Chief is iconic to Halo, and they came to the conclusion that Halo is not Halo without Master Chief.

You cannot easily start fresh when near the entire series was centered around the actions of the character you, for all intents and purposes, just killed off.

Shepard isn't the core of the ME mythos especially when ME existed before and will continue after Shepard.  Star Wars isn't centered around one person, but you could technically say that a part of Star Wars is centered around the Skywalker family.  Either way the center of ME would be the Normandy and her crew.

Halo is built around Master Cheif because he is the only character that is a constant with the player and the Spartans as a whole is the center for Halo.

Its easy to start a new in a series especially when most of the main characters don't out live a series, which this happens a lot in RPGs whether its Western or Eastern.

silverexile17s wrote...

2. They announced a trilogy, and never said anything about a forth game, so people had hope that since a new game was not part of the initial announcement, that perhapse Shepard's story was not as finished as the trilogy made it out to be. They though that a forth game announced, after the planned trilogy, would be indicative of Shep's return. We had no knolodge of a new game beforehand, so open speculation was all to go on.

I don't see why you're nippicking that ME was originally announced as a triilogy with Shepard but ME isn't exclusively tied to Shepard.  Its odd that you haven't bashed Halo for orginally being a trilogy on the Chief even when Halo Wars, ODST, and Reach "expanded" on it  while Halo 4 started a new trilogy.

silverexile17s wrote...


3. When did I say that any game is, or ever was, perfect? ALL games will have problems. Some minor, like the mako, and the inventory system. And some major, like the ending fiasco. Fan complaints are still feedback that can be drawn from to possibly improve a game.
And ME was nowhere near backed into a corner with the first game. At least from there, the story had an open-ended direction in could move forward from. That's not backed into a corner, and nothing involving ME1 could have done so, so I don't know where this "they would have stopped at ME1" opinion is comming from.
And  you yourself say, opinions are opinions, but what makes YOURS any more "Fact" then anyone else?

Don't forget that most "problems" aren't universal just like opinions aren't universal.

silverexile17s wrote...

4. First off, that is how the game works. The last two are supposed to affect the third, not the other way around. Second, you claimed that the Mako and the Inventory System were bigger disputes, when the complaints on the Mako in ME1 and the Inventory in ME2 were small fish compaired to the whale of a dispute that was ME3's endings. 
You did not state any factual source that discredits what I said. Google the BBC news report on Mass Effect 3's ending. That is my "proof of statement". 
What is yours?

Its odd on how ME3 didn't change what was previously in the ME games like the Reapers along with Cerberus are bad, organics vs synthetics, and etc.  Yet the Mako and Inventory System in ME1 did cause more of an issue based solely on how ME2 was a complete redesign.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 29 novembre 2012 - 09:04 .


#768
Spectre Impersonator

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Yes. Repeatedly. Casey said it. Miek Gamble & Mac Walters have said it. Jessica and I have said it.

No matter how many times you say something, you realize it can't be taken seriously anymore, right?;)

#769
AlanC9

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Dr_Extrem wrote...
the mainplot was about stopping the reapers. the struggle between organics and synthetics was just a sideplot. 

in addition, the geth were under the control of the reapers - so the synthetics vs. organics plot, becomes in fact a reaper vs. organics plot.


Ths misses the point. In ME1 the Reapers are portrayed as synthetics, and so the Reaper/Citadel war is a sub-case of synthetic/organic conflict.You do remember the Sovereign conversation on Virmire, right? Or Tali's convos about the geth?

This isn't contradicted by anthing in ME2 until the human Reaper reveal in the last ten minutes.

Modifié par AlanC9, 29 novembre 2012 - 09:10 .


#770
Blueprotoss

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silverexile17s wrote...

1. Well, what do you know. Something we actually agree on.
I hope Cortana is alive, but in all likelyhood, the rampancy thing may make her into the next games' villien

2. He means a sequal to This paritcular storyline with the endings. Not sequels in general, because that will always vary on numorus factors.
And the future of the endings doesn't really seem that easy to expand on. No matter which way the devs can go, trying to make a sequel on that messy dispute will be tripping a landmine, if they indeed go that route.
A prequel seems the safest route to go, until the backlash from the endings have cooled away completely.

3. I don't think you realize that if they do try to make a sequel this soon, it will backlash like the ending. Not after how volitile moving forward from any of those endings would be. Perhaps in the future, a sequel can be made, but if they have any intellegence, they will make a prequel or spin-off first.
And with how fast the next game was announced, it makes Blue Liara's supisions on trying to escape the memory of the trilogy's sour note ending all the more believable.

I don't see why Cortana would be killed unless If Cheif died along with her.

Yet ME4 could still be a sequel especially if the new main character was a spawn of Shepard or the preevious characters from ME1 to ME3 reappeared.

There will always be a backlash whether something is or isn't done because some people will get angry over anything.  Trilogies aren't excluded to just one group like how the Star Wars trilogies, the Avenger based Marvel movies, or the Alien/Predator/Prometheus tie into each.

#771
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1.Shepard is half the core of the mythos. The entire trilogy is centered around Shepard. The other half of the mythos is the Reapers, and the entire series is focused on the ripples that both create as Shepard tries to stop them. 
Up to this point, Shepard HAS been the center of ME. That was almost half the point. Such a big emphesis is put on the actions of Shepard, that the series would no longer feel like Mass Effect anymore.

As an example, Halo 4 brought back the Master Chief, because in the end, they figured that Just as Shepard is iconic to ME, Master Chief is iconic to Halo, and they came to the conclusion that Halo is not Halo without Master Chief.

You cannot easily start fresh when near the entire series was centered around the actions of the character you, for all intents and purposes, just killed off.

Shepard isn't the core of the ME mythos especially when ME existed before and will continue after Shepard.  Star Wars isn't centered around one person, but you could technically say that a part of Star Wars is centered around the Skywalker family.  Either way the center of ME would be the Normandy and her crew.

Halo is built around Master Cheif because he is the only character that is a constant with the player and the Spartans as a whole is the center for Halo.

Its easy to start a new in a series especially when most of the main characters don't out live a series, which this happens a lot in RPGs whether its Western or Eastern.

silverexile17s wrote...

2. They announced a trilogy, and never said anything about a forth game, so people had hope that since a new game was not part of the initial announcement, that perhapse Shepard's story was not as finished as the trilogy made it out to be. They though that a forth game announced, after the planned trilogy, would be indicative of Shep's return. We had no knolodge of a new game beforehand, so open speculation was all to go on.

I don't see why you're nippicking that ME was originally announced as a triilogy with Shepard but ME isn't exclusively tied to Shepard.  Its odd that you haven't bashed Halo for orginally being a trilogy on the Chief even when Halo Wars, ODST, and Reach "expanded" on it  while Halo 4 started a new trilogy.

silverexile17s wrote...


3. When did I say that any game is, or ever was, perfect? ALL games will have problems. Some minor, like the mako, and the inventory system. And some major, like the ending fiasco. Fan complaints are still feedback that can be drawn from to possibly improve a game.
And ME was nowhere near backed into a corner with the first game. At least from there, the story had an open-ended direction in could move forward from. That's not backed into a corner, and nothing involving ME1 could have done so, so I don't know where this "they would have stopped at ME1" opinion is comming from.
And  you yourself say, opinions are opinions, but what makes YOURS any more "Fact" then anyone else?

Don't forget that most "problems" aren't universal just like opinions aren't universal.

silverexile17s wrote...

4. First off, that is how the game works. The last two are supposed to affect the third, not the other way around. Second, you claimed that the Mako and the Inventory System were bigger disputes, when the complaints on the Mako in ME1 and the Inventory in ME2 were small fish compaired to the whale of a dispute that was ME3's endings. 
You did not state any factual source that discredits what I said. Google the BBC news report on Mass Effect 3's ending. That is my "proof of statement". 
What is yours?

Its odd on how ME3 didn't change what was previously in the ME games like the Reapers along with Cerberus are bad, organics vs synthetics, and etc.  Yet the Mako and Inventory System in ME1 did cause more of an issue based solely on how ME2 was a complete redesign.


1. .....O_o.
You do remember how this series got started, right?
ME Started with Shepard. ME didn't EXIST without Shepard! WHAT are you talking about?!
ME was invented with Shepard. Shepard existed since the moment the seires was designed. The devs created Shepard with ME. Shepard has existed since the conception of the series.
Cronological timelines DON'T MATTER. Shepard has existed since the beginning of the series. Shepard IS, in no uncerten way, a core element of the series, as everything in the series, from comics to games to expansion DLC's to books, has revolved around Shepard and the people the Commander meets, as well as the enemy that Shepard fights - the Reapers. These two are the core of the series' mythos. They defined the series, and without them, it is not really Mass Effect anymore.

Shepard is the Master Chief of Mass Effect. And the Reapers are it's Covenent.
No, actually, I think they are the Flood, more like.

Besides, a sequel to the current endings of the game will destroy what little support the series still has. It's too volitale a subject to touch right now.

2. Halo is still primaraly centered on Master Chief as the central character, and the series living without him was disproved by his return in the new Reclaimer trilogy.
And like I said, up to this point, every piece of lore in ME has been tied to either Shepard, or the Reapers. So yes, the series has been tied  irrovocably to both since it was created. And severing both ties like that has near-killed the franchise.

3. That is not an answer. I asked for proof that made your opinion the "Fact" that you claimed it was. You have still not provided such.
And a general consensis on somethingbeing a problem shows that not all problems are universal. Near everyone agreed the endings in one way or another sucked.

4. It was a complaint. It didn't take away from tha game, and it was nowhere near a problem for the game. The ME3 endings problems were massive in the scope of how many decried it for being nonsensicle and unfulfilling. And Cerberus was an ally in ME2, and peopel actually didn't seem to like how they went back to villian status after that.
And the organics vs synthetis issue did not exist in ME1 or 2. In ME1, it was a case of geth that attacked for the favor of their "gods". They would not have attacked had that Reaper not come along, so the Reapers are the ones tha propagated the conflict, not because of an organic/synthetic conflict. It was a case of mass minipulation, not organic vs synthetic. And in ME2, seeing the geth as allies did nothing to support the 'organics will allways be destroyed by synthetics" theroy either.

#772
silverexile17s

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Blueprotoss wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. Well, what do you know. Something we actually agree on.
I hope Cortana is alive, but in all likelyhood, the rampancy thing may make her into the next games' villien

2. He means a sequal to This paritcular storyline with the endings. Not sequels in general, because that will always vary on numorus factors.
And the future of the endings doesn't really seem that easy to expand on. No matter which way the devs can go, trying to make a sequel on that messy dispute will be tripping a landmine, if they indeed go that route.
A prequel seems the safest route to go, until the backlash from the endings have cooled away completely.

3. I don't think you realize that if they do try to make a sequel this soon, it will backlash like the ending. Not after how volitile moving forward from any of those endings would be. Perhaps in the future, a sequel can be made, but if they have any intellegence, they will make a prequel or spin-off first.
And with how fast the next game was announced, it makes Blue Liara's supisions on trying to escape the memory of the trilogy's sour note ending all the more believable.

I don't see why Cortana would be killed unless If Cheif died along with her.

Yet ME4 could still be a sequel especially if the new main character was a spawn of Shepard or the preevious characters from ME1 to ME3 reappeared.

There will always be a backlash whether something is or isn't done because some people will get angry over anything.  Trilogies aren't excluded to just one group like how the Star Wars trilogies, the Avenger based Marvel movies, or the Alien/Predator/Prometheus tie into each.

1. It's not impossible, though. I'm surprised by your statement. You yourself keep saying ME will survive without Shepard, when I don't. What suddenly makes you think Halo won't survive without Cortana?

2. No way in hell thay are toutching that subject. First off, that would only work with a male Shepard that romanced Ashley, Liara, or Jack (Or possibly Chambers).  A FemShep would have no chance at this spawn plotline unless the LI was Liara. Nor would any gay/lesbian Shepards. Not a good idea, as it would just rase more questions then answers and start another war over the endings.
They will likely not involve anything from this trilogy. Not with how badly the endings were receved.

3. Not like this. The Avenger movie came out good. And Prometheus is subjective.
Besides, those are movies. Not games.
And in games, I haven't seen a game trilogy get this much heat in recant history.

#773
DoomsdayDevice

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Bioware are just pretending that "Shepard is over".

He's metaphorically dead. They want us to go through that experience. As if Shepard's over and done with.

And then we'll wake up. =)

It's just PR.

#774
sH0tgUn jUliA

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ME4 without closure on Shepard in ME3 does not interest me at all, unless I see rave reviews from players, and that Bioware has returned to more role player control and less autodialogue, more story, no required multiplayer for single player to get the best results in the game. Because if they don't I have no interest in the game.

#775
PinkysPain

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Chris Priestly wrote...
We have no other details as to what the new ME game will be, who what where when, etc it will be. It will likely be over a year before we start talking about what the new game will be, but you're welcome to contribute what you would like to see in it until then.

No prequel ... but that's not going to happen ... so that leaves me with more multiplayer modes, since that's the only aspect of the game I might be interested in.