312 réponses à ce sujet

[ianvillan]

Caiden012 wrote...

Another thread was just locked. Come on Bio. We are just concerned fans that want to talk about a series that we enjoy.

It is also worrying that in both threads I post about how Bioware has no problem showing DA2 features that are returning but arent showing any Origin systems that may be in the next game and then shortly after the thread is locked.

[LobselVith8]

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

[Caiden012]

ianvillan wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

Another thread was just locked. Come on Bio. We are just concerned fans that want to talk about a series that we enjoy.

It is also worrying that in both threads I post about how Bioware has no problem showing DA2 features that are returning but arent showing any Origin systems that may be in the next game and then shortly after the thread is locked.

This is a social network. We are here to talk about the game and any concerns we have. As long as people don't start insulting each other and remain civil there should be no reason for them to be locking threads. And yes we have seen little of Origins gameplay elements so far. Plently of DA 2 and Mass Effect though.

Modifié par Caiden012, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:55 .

[Nerevar-as]

Caiden012 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

Another thread was just locked. Come on Bio. We are just concerned fans that want to talk about a series that we enjoy.

It is also worrying that in both threads I post about how Bioware has no problem showing DA2 features that are returning but arent showing any Origin systems that may be in the next game and then shortly after the thread is locked.

This is a social network. We are here to talk about the game and any concerns we have. As long as people don't start insulting each other and remain civil there should be no reason for them to be locking threads. And yes we have seen little of Origins gameplay elements so far. Plently of DA 2 and Mass Effect though.

At least with the last lock, I saw no reason for it. It seems AS is a bit touchy today.

[Allan Schumacher]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

If you have greivances with my moderating, send me a PM and state your case, instead of showing Sid Meier that he's right that gamers are paranoid.

What I see are people being petulant towards one another in a way that is poison to the community.  The most recent one wasn't just "I want multiple races" but was then used as evidence that "BioWare isn't listening" and when counterarguments were presented, suddenly it was turning into "race selection is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING of all bioware games" and nevermind the "DA2 didn't have race selection and look how poorly it did."

This isn't civil discussion.


Having said that, your concern has been noted.

[Palipride47]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

[Caiden012]

We are just concerned. Many of us are fans of Dragon Age. And as fans, how the game is developed is almost completely out of our hands and in many ways that is a good thing. But when the developers do things that concern us really the only thing we can do post in threads. Race selection is not the most important thin about Bioware games. KOTOR and ME work fine without them but remember that this is Dragon Age and not KOTOR or ME.

Modifié par Caiden012, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:06 .

[The Elder King]

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

In DA2, Hawke's comments one of two time implied he's Andrastian, and Bioware confirmed that. They said that they never wanted to make the PC atheist even in DAO.

[DPSSOC]

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

I think it boils down to Hawke can't specifically say he/she doesn't believe in the Maker.  I can't recall any instances of statements suggesting Hawke does believe but I could have missed something or just forgotten.  That's the sense I've gotten from the discussions on it that I've seen, it's not enough for the character to just not state a belief they must have the option to state a lack of belief.

[Palipride47]

DPSSOC wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

I think it boils down to Hawke can't specifically say he/she doesn't believe in the Maker.  I can't recall any instances of statements suggesting Hawke does believe but I could have missed something or just forgotten.  That's the sense I've gotten from the discussions on it that I've seen, it's not enough for the character to just not state a belief they must have the option to state a lack of belief.

Ah, ok. Because I know in DAO you can preach atheism or uncertainty (especially if you talk with Justice outside he Chantry in DAA, and some pirests, like Mallol in DAO). DA2 is a little slippery (I can think of some lines that were "cringe"-y), but I didn't think it FORCED faith on you (I mean, using phrases like "thank god" in real life are more socialized than profession of belief) 

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

If you have greivances with my moderating, send me a PM and state your case, instead of showing Sid Meier that he's right that gamers are paranoid.

What I see are people being petulant towards one another in a way that is poison to the community.  The most recent one wasn't just "I want multiple races" but was then used as evidence that "BioWare isn't listening" and when counterarguments were presented, suddenly it was turning into "race selection is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING of all bioware games" and nevermind the "DA2 didn't have race selection and look how poorly it did."

This isn't civil discussion.


Having said that, your concern has been noted.

Well, so far you´ve only shown things that point to no listening, and answered concerns with a polite version of "suck it up" (apologies if these sounds more offensive in English than in my language). It doesn´t help that most changes from Origins have amounted to cutting corners. I think RPG players want more choices and expanded gameplay features in successive games, not less of everything. It wouldn´t have been a problem if Origins had only included the HM PC, but it showed you could tell the same story from different characters POVs, and despite not making as much difference as could have, in places I would act differently depending on who my character was (ie: no way my City Elf will forgive Loghain). So instead of improving a promising new feature, you removed it for no valid reason for DA2. And now here we go again. And we are also worried because we haven´t forgotten all the reassurances and promises for DA2, most of  which didn´t deliver IMHO:

[garrusfan1]

Eh those same people who complain will still buy it (well a lot of them will). Thus I think EA won't care if people want it to suck as long as they buy it. Personally I think it is gonna be amazing

[Vicious]

People need to stop projecting their beliefs onto their characters. Does the Maker exist? No probably not. Would Hawke or the Warden believe in the Maker? Or an Elven Warden in Dalish gods? Or a Dwarf Warden in the stone and their ancestors? In a world with magic and all kinds of things that can't be explained?

They have no reason NOT to believe.

[Caiden012]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

If you have greivances with my moderating, send me a PM and state your case, instead of showing Sid Meier that he's right that gamers are paranoid.

What I see are people being petulant towards one another in a way that is poison to the community.  The most recent one wasn't just "I want multiple races" but was then used as evidence that "BioWare isn't listening" and when counterarguments were presented, suddenly it was turning into "race selection is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING of all bioware games" and nevermind the "DA2 didn't have race selection and look how poorly it did."

This isn't civil discussion.


Having said that, your concern has been noted.

Well, so far you´ve only shown things that point to no listening, and answered concerns with a polite version of "suck it up" (apologies if these sounds more offensive in English than in my language). It doesn´t help that most changes from Origins have amounted to cutting corners. I think RPG players want more choices and expanded gameplay features in successive games, not less of everything. It wouldn´t have been a problem if Origins had only included the HM PC, but it showed you could tell the same story from different characters POVs, and despite not making as much difference as could have, in places I would act differently depending on who my character was (ie: no way my City Elf will forgive Loghain). So instead of improving a promising new feature, you removed it for no valid reason for DA2. And now here we go again. And we are also worried because we haven´t forgotten all the reassurances and promises for DA2, most of  which didn´t deliver IMHO:

I completely agree.

[LobselVith8]

hhh89 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden, they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

In DA2, Hawke's comments one of two time implied he's Andrastian, and Bioware confirmed that. They said that they never wanted to make the PC atheist even in DAO.

Gaider made that claim, but the atheist options were avaliable in Origins and Awakening. I don't see how his claim is accurate when the expansion provided this option as well. In contrast, Hawke makes it clear to Feynriel and Merrill that he believes in the Maker; no choice in the matter.

[zyntifox]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Eh those same people who complain will still buy it (well a lot of them will). Thus I think EA won't care if people want it to suck as long as they buy it. Personally I think it is gonna be amazing

I won't. But it's not just because of the lack of multiple playable races but mainly due to the guessing game that is the dialogue system. But could having multiple races convince me despite the dialogue system to buy the game? Maybe, but not likely.

[LobselVith8]

Vicious wrote...

People need to stop projecting their beliefs onto their characters. Does the Maker exist? No probably not. Would Hawke or the Warden believe in the Maker? Or an Elven Warden in Dalish gods? Or a Dwarf Warden in the stone and their ancestors? In a world with magic and all kinds of things that can't be explained?

They have no reason NOT to believe.

Being atheist about a fictional religion isn't "projecting." It's about my freedom to shape who my protagonist is.

The Warden could tell Justice that he didn't believe in the Maker, as it was a "foolish superstition." The elven mage could say he didn't believe in the Maker, and condemn the Chantry for marching on the Dales because the elves wouldn't convert to the human religion. He could even tell Leliana that Andraste wasn't divine.

Reason? My Surana Warden had plenty of reason not to believe.

[Palipride47]

LobselVith8 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden, they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

In DA2, Hawke's comments one of two time implied he's Andrastian, and Bioware confirmed that. They said that they never wanted to make the PC atheist even in DAO.

Gaider made that claim, but the atheist options were avaliable in Origins and Awakening. I don't see how his claim is accurate when the expansion provided this option as well. In contrast, Hawke makes it clear to Feynriel and Merrill that he believes in the Maker; no choice in the matter.

Yeah, I remember Hawke saying something like "May the Maker watch over you" when she tells him goodbye (and doesn't kill him) and that was odd and made me cringe.  And I kinda wanted the option to say "The Qun sounds ok enough"


I thought it was more people were upset that you couldn't like, go up to the Grand Cleric and murder knife her before Anders does, or scream "The Maker is a LIE!!!" from the rooftops. I mean, Anders is Andrastian, and oviously holds Andrastian beliefs (convo with Merrill about spirits and Sebastian about the Maker) but he is definitely not "religious".



And it seems I derailed the thread.....sorry..

let's move on before someone sweeps in here and locks it.

Rawgrim wrote...

Here is something ironic. The multiplayer, will at least, let you play as a different race. Pretty sure of that.

That has not been confirmed. Let us stick with what we know. 

I hope DA3 does well, and Bioware does too. I hope that they make the best game possible and everyone loves it and it is all cookies and sunshine and rainbows and the trolls don't have a reason to hate on Bioware and EA (I've got my own opinions about EA, but I don't think they are EVIL, just shortsighted).

That said, I will probably not preorder like last time. And if the demo confirms that I will not like it, I will be more willing to cancel an order. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:46 .

[InvaderXX]

Damn...everyone is after each other's necks for DA3 race selection....let the devs do their jobs...stop disturbing them!...

[jillabender]

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Caiden, they might be thinking: out of sight, out of mind. It seems the developers don't want us to discuss the lack of atheist and racial options in Dragon Age, considering how they close the threads even when people are addressing their options without turning the discussion into a bitter feud. I didn't see any reason for the racial thread to be closed when people were civilly addressing their opinions on the matter. It's starting to become ridiculous.

Lack of atheist options? I keep hearing this, can someone explain to me how you can't be atheist in DA?

In DA2, Hawke's comments one of two time implied he's Andrastian, and Bioware confirmed that. They said that they never wanted to make the PC atheist even in DAO.

Gaider made that claim, but the atheist options were avaliable in Origins and Awakening. I don't see how his claim is accurate when the expansion provided this option as well. In contrast, Hawke makes it clear to Feynriel and Merrill that he believes in the Maker; no choice in the matter.

Yeah, I remember Hawke saying something like "May the Maker watch over you" when she tells him goodbye (and doesn't kill him) and that was odd and made me cringe.  And I kinda wanted the option to say "The Qun sounds ok enough"


I thought it was more people were upset that you couldn't like, go up to the Grand Cleric and murder knife her before Anders does, or scream "The Maker is a LIE!!!" from the rooftops. I mean, Anders is Andrastian, and oviously holds Andrastian beliefs (convo with Merrill about spirits and Sebastian about the Maker) but he is definitely not "religious".

I don't want to derail the thread, but I think it might be productive to clarify something: David Gaider has stated that although he's not against providing opportunities for the PC to express doubt in the Maker or Andrastianism, the writers aren't likely to allow the PC to go on a crusade against all religion, because they believe that would feel out of place in the Dragon Age setting. You can read what he had to say here:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/14199484/1#14199722

Modifié par jillabender, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:45 .

[Wrathion]

jillabender wrote...

writers aren't likely to allow the PC to go on a crusade against all religion, 

Did anyone even ask for that? o.o

[DPSSOC]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

jillabender wrote...

writers aren't likely to allow the PC to go on a crusade against all religion, 

Did anyone even ask for that? o.o

It's the internet I'm sure someone did at some point.

[LobselVith8]

jillabender wrote...

I don't want to derail the thread, but I think it might be productive to clarify something: David Gaider has stated that although he's not against providing opportunities for the PC to express doubt in the Maker or Andrastianism, the writers aren't likely to allow the PC to go on a crusade against all religion, because they believe that would feel out of place in the Dragon Age setting. You can read what he had to say here:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/14199484/1#14199722

Gaider said that after the negative reaction his original comments about atheism received.

Having the option to voice an atheist perspective doesn't mean the player wants to go to war with all religion; it means the person is simply an atheist.

[jillabender]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

jillabender wrote...

writers aren't likely to allow the PC to go on a crusade against all religion, 

Did anyone even ask for that? o.o

It's certainly true that most players who want the option for their character to express atheism don't feel the need for it to be taken that far. However, I have seen a few people express a desire to play a character who wants to destroy the Andrastian Chantry as an insitution.

I wouldn't necessarily have a problem if the writers decided to include the possibility of a militantly anti-religious PC, but based on David Gaider's comments, I don't think the writers have much interest in writing for such a character. If I'm wrong on that, though, the developers are certainly free to correct me.

Modifié par jillabender, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:54 .

[Jorina Leto]

Vicious wrote...


They have no reason NOT to believe.

Morrigan thinks otherwise.