312 réponses à ce sujet

[Rune-Chan]

Karlone123 wrote...

I love the Dragon Age series as do many other people, so I do not want to give the impression that I want it to suck.

Indeed. The reason I am often quite harsh in my criticisms of other Bioware games when talking about DA3 is to emphasise where I think they went wrong, so that perhaps they can understand how bad some things have been, and what some people want differently.

I very much want Dragon Age 3 to be a success, but only if it deserves it.

If they try and pull another Mass Effect 3, or release a bunch of DLC to fill in their plot holes, or tack on a multiplayer system where it isn't wanted or needed, then they deserve all of the criticism they get, because it shows that they are not listening.

Dragon Age: Origins was pretty much universially praised, as was Mass Effect 1. Perhaps they should take note of that and look into what those games had that their much more criticised sequels didn't. Rather than treating games like statistics, and trying to push in all of the things that have made other franchises successful (like multiplayer).

The problem I think is that EA don't seem to care about making their games good, they seem to care about making their games sell. Their primary plan for this seems to be aggressive marketing and extra content to try and draw in outside crowds who don't care about the previous games. As opposed to concentrating on what made the other games so good  and well received and improving on them.

Take Borderlands 2 for example. It's basically Borderlands 1,  just with improvements in all areas that they could; a new story, abilities and characters. They didn't cut out things for no reason, they didn't shove in extra stuff to try to appeal to a different crowd. They stuck with their winning formula, improved and expanded upon it.

Arkham City is another perfect example of a much loved sequel. They didn't mess around with adding new crap nobody wanted, they didn't cut out things to make it easier for the new people who are not used to having to use their brains. No, they just took what they had already, and put effort into making it better than it was.

Then you get Bioware/EA.

Mako controls a problem? Don't make them better, cut the Mako.
Inventory getting clogged up? Don't make it more intuitive, cut the inventory.
Weapon heating? Not appealing for shooter fans. Change it to ammo clips.
Conversations boring people who don't even care about the story? Cut them down and simplify them.
People not finding quests because they are used to games that require no thinking? Hold their hands and lead them everywhere. Don't give them any real freedom.

Bioware/EA shouldn't just make the games based upon what the fans want, but they need to think about why games such as KOTOR, BG, DA:O and ME1 were so loved, and their more recent titles have left people angered and disappointed.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:44 .

[FedericoV]

I don't want DA3 to suck at all. After 3 disappointing games (and a buggy expansion pack throwned in to the mix), I would love it to be a return to form on Bioware's part. Something that could stand on the same pedestal of greatness that most gamers grant to BG Trilogy, Kotor, DA:O and ME1+2.

Do I believe it possible? Yes, off course: why not! The talent is still there and I doubt that Bioware has unlearned how to develop a satisfying ludic experience (I mean, they've been polishing their formula for the last 12 years). Do I believe it likely? Well, honestly no. Because I believe that EA's gaming "culture" is simply at odds with the passion of the dev team and his honest desire to realize an outstanding fantasy RPG.

Not to say that from what the little we know so far about DA3, it seems to me that what I believe to be the main lesson of DA2 has not been learned. For me DA2 has been a divisive experience and I thought really hard about what I liked in the game and what not, what I think worked and what haven't worked. At the end I've come to a very broad conclusion.

DA2 tried to mix two different kind of aestethic experiences that apparently do not resonate with each other all that well: DA:O's experience that focused on the fantasy of the player and the challenge of the gameplay and ME experience that focused more on the narrative of the author and the more basic expression of the player. Most feature and story elements feel unfocused and not developed organically. That could be caused by the lack of time, off course, but I believe that it's the whole approach that it's flawed.

Mind, maybe with the right amount of time the devs will find a way to blend those different aesthetic experiences successfuly. But in my book, the better games are always the ones that choose one or two chore experiences for their players and stick to it as closely as they can.

Then, I would be glad to be proven wrong but I won't pre-order and I will wait until the game is honestly reviewed by sources I trust before I buy it (if the game is not received that well, I could consider a discounted copy some months after, with the added privilege of playing a game that's mostly patched).

Modifié par FedericoV, 20 octobre 2012 - 09:47 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

No one wants DA3 to suck. Why would they? The only people who could possibly wish such a thing is a business rival. However, lots of people are expecting it to suck. Completely different things. It never hurts to have low expectations.

[Allan Schumacher]

Kotor was supposed to be a trilogy.

Not sure where people get this idea, unless it was something Lucasarts wanted to do. BioWare wrapped the main story up pretty neatly with the original game.

[Allan Schumacher]

FlamingBoy wrote...

MushroomMagic wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I hope it ends up being the best crpg ever made. I doubt it will be, of course, but i am still having hopes.

As for EA getting hatred...its well deserved.

Dragon Age III still deserves a fair chance regardless of what people think of EA.  However, I do not think most fans will do that because they want Dragon Age III to suck because they want to see EA suffer not taking into consideration that it is Bioware who will suffer far worse.

honestly... its in all gamers interest if ea is wiped from the map and its actually worth losing, the now souless, studio bioware to achieve that aim

Hmmm, as a gamer, it'd certainly not be in my best interests to be unemployed as that'd certainly undermine my ability to purchase new games!

Jokes aside, wishing for me and my colleagues to become unemployed isn't really a productive perspective on these forums and I'd encourage those that want to see us burn to just move along since in the long run I can't see much productive coming out of sticking around.

I have no beefs with criticism (no game is perfect).  Criticism is okay and encouraged.  Coming around to tell me you wish I was out of a job because you think it's in your best interests as a gamer, not so much.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, there are people who want DA III to suck. There are people who want BioWare to go out of business.

They are a minority.

[DPSSOC]

I don't want DA3 to suck though I fully expect it to. Not because of any information that's been released I'm just a firm believer in the high hopes, low expectations philosophy.

[mousestalker]

My fondest is wish is that Bioware produces a game so delightful that I will be playing it ten years later. It would be very nice if they produce such a game and make pot loads of money off of it, then use that money to make even more enjoyable games.

I do not wish ill on anyone. The closest I come to such things is wishing that people who are doing wrong will repent. But their repentance benefits them as well.

So if anyone in Bioware is doing evil, they ought to repent. And for those who are doing good at Bioware, please continue.

[The Elder King]

hussey 92 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 had more problems then it's ending. For one thing it was much shorter then the other two games.

I don't remember exactly how long, but my playthrough in ME3 is more or less on the same lenght than my playthrough in ME2 and ME, without the dlcs. Betweeen 30 and 40 hours.

[Aolbain]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

MushroomMagic wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I hope it ends up being the best crpg ever made. I doubt it will be, of course, but i am still having hopes.

As for EA getting hatred...its well deserved.

Dragon Age III still deserves a fair chance regardless of what people think of EA.  However, I do not think most fans will do that because they want Dragon Age III to suck because they want to see EA suffer not taking into consideration that it is Bioware who will suffer far worse.

honestly... its in all gamers interest if ea is wiped from the map and its actually worth losing, the now souless, studio bioware to achieve that aim

Hmmm, as a gamer, it'd certainly not be in my best interests to be unemployed as that'd certainly undermine my ability to purchase new games!

Jokes aside, wishing for me and my colleagues to become unemployed isn't really a productive perspective on these forums and I'd encourage those that want to see us burn to just move along since in the long run I can't see much productive coming out of sticking around.

I have no beefs with criticism (no game is perfect).  Criticism is okay and encouraged.  Coming around to tell me you wish I was out of a job because you think it's in your best interests as a gamer, not so much.

Show 'em Allan!:happy:

[Urzon]

It's not so much us wanting DAIII to fail, it more us being bitter about DAII being so rushed that it couldn't live to its full potention. Not to mention, us gamers, being the self-entitled a-holes that we are, will jump on and ridicule anything we see as flaws in the game.

That problem gets exacerbated on forums. We find people that agree with our views, and we feed off one another's opinions in a nice evil spiral of ever evolving criticism. Thoughts that were once, "It was a nice game, but it some major flaws", turns into "OMG! This game sucks! It has ruined all my faith in this game company, and i'm never going to buy anything of their's ever again!".

[Aolbain]

Urzon wrote...

It's not so much us wanting DAIII to fail, it more us being bitter about DAII being so rushed that it couldn't live to its full potention. Not to mention, us gamers, being the self-entitled a-holes that we are, will jump on and ridicule anything we see as flaws in the game.

That problem gets exacerbated on forums. We find people that agree with our views, and we feed off one another's opinions in a nice evil spiral of ever evolving criticism. Thoughts that were once, "It was a nice game, but it some major flaws", turns into "OMG! This game sucks! It has ruined all my faith in this game company, and i'm never going to buy anything of their's ever again!".

The ironic is that all this is said on saids companys official forum.

[Wozearly]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

I certainly do not want DA3 to "suck;" but as of right now, I am not certain that the dev's have fully appreciated why I and a lot of others, were "less than enthusiastic" about DA2.

And for the record, the argument "They didn't have enough time..." is not a good one. DA2 suffered from way too many unnecessary changes (art design, mutant elves, parachuting ninja's, and a story that was chopped up, etc.). If they did not have the time, they should not have made the changes.

The little we have heard thus far has not been greatly encouraging. [snip]

I sincerely hope that the next installment will blow me away with rich characters, an engrossing story, incredible graphics and a more "tactical" combat system. But DA2 and ME3 were the first Bioware games that left me "unsatisfied." [snip]

But hope was the last thing that crawled out of Pandora's box. I am not ready to give up on them yet. She may be bruised, battered and struggling to crawl over the rim but maybe she can make it out and DA3 will be the kind of game that we all want it to be.

Just wanted to quote that, as it pretty much perfectly sums up how I feel as well.

The last thing I want is for DA3 to be terrible or for Bioware to find itself struggling. I'll freely admit to being biased towards wanting DA3 and future Bioware games to be the types of games that set me on fire and turned me into a raving fanboy...Jade Empire, DA2, ME2 and ME3 were all decent games in their own right, but all felt like a step away from what drew me in to Bioware's works in the first place.

What worries me is that three of those are very recent releases, which sadly suggests this new approach is here to stay, no matter how much division it may be causing in the fan base, and no matter how much I might wish it otherwise...

 

[nightscrawl]

MushroomMagic wrote...

Does anyone get the impression people want Dragon Age III to suck?

No. I've gotten the impression that some players have already made up their minds that it IS going to suck, and aren't bothering to wait and see what Bioware has planned to resolve some of our issues before casting criticism and declaring the game a failure before release.

I only have two issues: clarity of paraphrases and an MP mode that is unobtrusive and does not affect the SP game in any way. However, neither of those are deal breakers for me, so I am content to wait and see.

[FlamingBoy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

MushroomMagic wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I hope it ends up being the best crpg ever made. I doubt it will be, of course, but i am still having hopes.

As for EA getting hatred...its well deserved.

Dragon Age III still deserves a fair chance regardless of what people think of EA.  However, I do not think most fans will do that because they want Dragon Age III to suck because they want to see EA suffer not taking into consideration that it is Bioware who will suffer far worse.

honestly... its in all gamers interest if ea is wiped from the map and its actually worth losing, the now souless, studio bioware to achieve that aim

Hmmm, as a gamer, it'd certainly not be in my best interests to be unemployed as that'd certainly undermine my ability to purchase new games!

Jokes aside, wishing for me and my colleagues to become unemployed isn't really a productive perspective on these forums and I'd encourage those that want to see us burn to just move along since in the long run I can't see much productive coming out of sticking around.

I have no beefs with criticism (no game is perfect).  Criticism is okay and encouraged.  Coming around to tell me you wish I was out of a job because you think it's in your best interests as a gamer, not so much.

keep in mine this orginal comment was a tad of an exaggeration, you being unemployed would suck it really would, but as a consumer it has no effect on me in a tangible way.

Also I was implying what I would desire to see EA removed more than bioware, although the language to my orginal comment was harsh. think of this as a moral ambuguity choice for the greater good:P



Edit: also the "constructive critism" is out I think every one has a pretty good idea of the vauge outline of the kind of game that is desired, I am just not convinced of a dedication to game or the company on its highest level

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:14 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, there are people who want DA III to suck. There are people who want BioWare to go out of business.

They are a minority.

That sounds incredibly racist. 


OT... I'm interested to see how DA3 will do. Bioware has a very unique opportunity to rebuild good faith among their fanbase. The unintended responses of DA2, ME3, TOR and (arguably) ME2 leave them in a position to show if they can take fan feedback and incorporate them into their games, while still being true to their vision of the IP. 

I'm not sure how much this will translate to real-world sales impact, but the number of people here on the BSN as well as IRL who I have heard say will not buy the game opening week or pre-order has not been inconsequential. Bioware may have to work towards making a game that has to make most of its money after the first two weeks (like DA:O and ME1) rather than the first few days after release (like ME2, ME3 and DA2). Which is a very interesting challenge in and of itself. 

[Fast Jimmy]

mousestalker wrote...

My fondest is wish is that Bioware produces a game so delightful that I will be playing it ten years later. It would be very nice if they produce such a game and make pot loads of money off of it, then use that money to make even more enjoyable games.

I do not wish ill on anyone. The closest I come to such things is wishing that people who are doing wrong will repent. But their repentance benefits them as well.

So if anyone in Bioware is doing evil, they ought to repent. And for those who are doing good at Bioware, please continue.

REPENT! The DA3 Endings are Near!

[Felya87]

I don't want DA3 to sucks. I really hope not.

But DA2 happened. And that sucks spectacularly. no races choise, few dialogue choise, Whell of Torture, whiny companions, insignificant choise, animation taken from anime, ripetitive dungeon, secondary mission coming from nowhere...

Now I was burned. and I'm really afraid of DA3. but is true Bio can't do a worse game, right?

...

...right?

...

...at least gime me a little hope, ok!!!

[thebigbad1013]

To me, actually wanting a game to suck is absolutely senseless. If you're interested in a game you certainly wouldn't want it to suck, and if you aren't interested in a particular game why would you even care if it sucks or not? That kind of thinking is just beyond my understanding.

[Fishy]

It`s amazing how so many people pull out one liners like :

- BioWare haven't made any good game for a while now !
Mass Effect III received 93 % on metacritic and when the game was released everyone on the board was quite happy. Save the ending which they corrected.

- Dragon age 2  the ATROCITIES !!!
It`s was a good enough game that I actually enjoyed. DA:O was just simply my favorite game of all time  so it`s will be difficult to beat that. They had good intention with DA2  that fell flat. If you was present in 2009 on the board here.. A lot of people hated a lot of thing in DA:O and they did try to correct them.

- SWTOR FAILED ROFLZ
I Played the game for 2 month. It`s could be been much more... The game would been much better if it's was not a MMORPG. But in MMORPG ppl expect to play with others. Swtor was too much ''SOLO''.. It`s a  great game for what it is.

- Dragon age Origins 2009 , Mass Effect 2 2010 , Mass Effect 1 2007 ... So I think BioWare are far from crap.. All these people living only in 2000 need to grow up.

Modifié par Suprez30, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:44 .

[Nashimura]

I have been on forums for games to be released and it feels that way for every single one.

[eroeru]

^ Umm. I watched the forums around the time of most of these games mentioned. None of them got the backfire that DA2 did (which was also in my opinion plenty more justifiable than others, the reasons are SO many and reduntant to name tbh).

@Suprez Origins was made with a different team and with differing ideas though (which is arguably also the case with ME2 and 1).

Modifié par eroeru, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:53 .

[Conquerthecity]

 I don't want it to suck, I just keep my expectations and hopes pretty low so I won't be too disappointed if it does. 

[RedWulfi]

No game will be exactly what everyone wants. I'll buy the game and I'll more than likely love it. I just hope I find the 3rd to be more like the first when it comes to great story lines, twists and different endings. I felt kind of forced to pick in DA2 whereas in DAO I knew in my head that it HAD to be done to stop the blight. And it did make me cry.