384 réponses à ce sujet

[Viglin]

Malfurus wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

So you want them to change the lore to suit your personal belief that a fantasy game needs to have certain classes? Maker above, even the PRC (a custom content group from NWN) didn't desire to bring D&D classes into Dragon Age, instead wanting to explore the possibilities of the new setting.

Who said anything about the word "should"....? I stated that I would like to see it done and so would members of the community. Don't twist my words. Again...READ the POST. And who knows, maybe they're already thinking of implementing the cleric class, you sure don't.  

Heres an idea.....forge your Spirial Healer into what you believe a Cleric is, and just...pretend..or dare l say ...roleplay?

Why is it so many people on here want/demand changes, when most of them can easily be done by the players choices.

[royen1]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The only way I would see a cleric class being available in DA:O is if they did it like Exalted did it: instead of being healers they were public speakers and agitators, the guys who stand in the middle of a market place preaching how the end of the world is coming and that everyone is a sinner unless they take up arms against this guy they really don't like, etc.

While in Exalted they had powers (as every man and his dog's left nut had powers coming out of their ears in that system) they were not healing powers, and DA:O clerics would not have even that. The priest in redcliffe even refuses to pretend to have powers, saying that is not their place. Instead, a cleric class would have things like the rally power or the bard powers to simulate them motivating those around them and such like, that would be your DA:O cleric.

Signed! There is at least one cleric in the game at Ostagar, who preaches to/rallies the troops across from the war dog-pens.

[ladydesire]

Malfurus wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

So you want them to change the lore to suit your personal belief that a fantasy game needs to have certain classes? Maker above, even the PRC (a custom content group from NWN) didn't desire to bring D&D classes into Dragon Age, instead wanting to explore the possibilities of the new setting.

Who said anything about the word "should"....? I stated that I would like to see it done and so would members of the community. Don't twist my words. Again...READ the POST. And who knows, maybe they're already thinking of implementing the cleric class, you sure don't.  

I'd have to say that if they had wanted a Cleric class in the game, they would have done so already and not given Mages healing/buffing spells to begin with.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

ladydesire wrote...

I'd have to say that if they had wanted a Cleric class in the game, they would have done so already and not given Mages healing/buffing spells to begin with.

So there should be no classes with any overlapping talents?  Warriors and rogues have some overlapping talents.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 janvier 2010 - 10:20 .

[GeorgeZip]

They should give Templars a heal spell, or a healing aura. Not as strong as the spirit healer's abilities but as a support healer.



That way you'd free up the party dynamics a bit. Wynne is tough to not include in your party now. It's certainly do-able but you have to know what you're doing. Then you want a rogue and an offensive mage, so you're left with 5 tanks to fill one slot. Ohgren, Sten, Shale, doggy, and Allister.



If templars had some kind of healing ability you could scrap Wynne and go with light heals from an offensive mage and a templar and add a second rogue or 2 hand/dual weild dps warrior.

[FlintlockJazz]

royen1 wrote...

Signed! There is at least one cleric in the game at Ostagar, who preaches to/rallies the troops across from the war dog-pens.

Exactly, though thinking about it this would only really work as a specialisation or somesuch, since most priests are pretty much normal guys with public speaking skills.  Probably one for rogues and warriors, a cross between bard and champion, as a mage would not be accepted as a priest and so wouldn't get it.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Viglin wrote...

Why is it so many people on here want/demand changes, when most of them can easily be done by the players choices.

Because we know that there is most likely going to be an expansion and that that expansion should be as good as possible.

[Baalzie]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Why is it so many people on here want/demand changes, when most of them can easily be done by the players choices.

Because we know that there is most likely going to be an expansion and that that expansion should be as good as possible.

And those 'good' changes is about going against the Lore they alraedy put into the game?
I dare say not...
This is not an mmo, where they have to release new playable races and classes every so often to keep the millions of grinders somewhat happy and give them a new angle to grind from...
This is a singleplayer story(lore)driven rpg...
Changing the lore and backgrounds around might be okey for a game like  "Insert major mmo here" but in a storydriven sp rpg.... It would be failboat...
And the s.c. "clerics" ingame are priests *other name for priest=Cleric, even without magic, check Medieval times, we had those in Europe yeknow, but no divine magic:P* and have no magic whatsoever, even their blessings are only words of faith, no power whatsoever, as they themselves even say vehemently...

So... Adding Clerics into the campainsetting would be total failboat, against current established lore *there are none in Thedas as now, and ALL magic is mages' work including healing and buffs* and thereby not something Bioware would do I think...
However I might be wrong and Bioware might just have a collective braindamage and start killing their own setting.... But not very likely...

I don't dislike if modders make Clerics and if people put that into their own campains and whatnot, even the OC, but for Bioware to do a total 180 like that? Nahh...

So if they DID add Clerics, they would probably LOSE more players than they would possibly gain by caving in to unpopular demand by a smallpart of the playerbase^^
I sure would be peeved if they did a Blizzard and killed their own lore and background in every sequel...
Edit: All this is ofcoure in my OPINION, and not stated as absolute facts, or anything... I rarely state my opinions as facts, unless the 2 correlate totally ofc... ^^

Modifié par Baalzie, 02 janvier 2010 - 01:27 .

[AntiChri5]

It seems that most people who want clerics feel that they should be there cause DnD says so. Bioware decided to have a very different kind of world where religion was not preoven fact but a matter of faith, it is a grey world in which nothing is clear cut and i like it.



I dont even understand why people want Clerics, you can turn a mage into something that fills that exact role without them becoming a pathetic beggar class like the cleric.

[ladydesire]

royen1 wrote...

Signed! There is at least one cleric in the game at Ostagar, who preaches to/rallies the troops across from the war dog-pens.

Said "cleric" is, at least in the toolset version of Ostegar, a Warrior dressed in the same Chartry robes as Leilana is when you first encounter her. So are several of the others that I looked at.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

AntiChri5 wrote...

It seems that most people who want clerics feel that they should be there cause DnD says so..

Oh really. Do you have a poll that backs up your claim?  I haven't read people saying "because there are clerics in DnD there must be clerics in DA:O"

AntiChri5 wrote...

 Bioware decided to have a very different kind of world where religion was not preoven fact but a matter of faith, it is a grey world in which nothing is clear cut and i like it.

.

Really?  The Urn of Ashes produces a miracle. The guardian living for so many centuries was a miracle.

Also, the Maker is mostly only worshiped by the humans. The Dalish elves have their own gods and tattoo themselves to honor them. Also, I remember a quest where an elf says he will pray for the god of the hunt to give me success.

Oh, and Leliania claims to have had a vision from the Maker.

AntiChri5 wrote...
I dont even understand why people want Clerics, you can turn a mage into something that fills that exact role without them becoming a pathetic beggar class like the cleric.

You can chose Spirit Healer to make a mage have 4 spells that a mage who doesn't chose Spirit Healer have. Spirit Healer doesn't make a mage play any differently than a mage.

If you add in Arcane Warrior, the mage will be a mage that has to run lots of sustained abilities and can't cast spells very good. That is not a cleric.

Since there are dieties in the game (and more dieties than just the Maker) I don't see why some people are opposed to the concept of a cleric. The lore does say (the Chantry does say) that the Maker gave Andraste special powers. So the Maker can obviously chose to give someone else special powers too.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 02 janvier 2010 - 02:14 .

[Sylixe]

Uhm..there are clerics in DAO. Did you somehow miss the Arcane Warrior class? Casters in full plate that can Heal, Nuke and Melee. Sounds like a cleric to me and they even are totally OP , which clerics tend to be in RPG's.

[AntiChri5]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

It seems that most people who want clerics feel that they should be there cause DnD says so..

1 Oh really. Do you have a poll that backs up your claim?  I haven't read people saying "because there are clerics in DnD there must be clerics in DA:O"

AntiChri5 wrote...

 Bioware decided to have a very different kind of world where religion was not preoven fact but a matter of faith, it is a grey world in which nothing is clear cut and i like it.

.

2 Really?  The Urn of Ashes produces a miracle. The guardian living for so many centuries was a miracle.

Also, the Maker is mostly only worshiped by the humans. The Dalish elves have their own gods and tattoo themselves to honor them. Also, I remember a quest where an elf says he will pray for the god of the hunt to give me success.

3 Oh, and Leliania claims to have had a vision from the Maker.

AntiChri5 wrote...
I dont even understand why people want Clerics, you can turn a mage into something that fills that exact role without them becoming a pathetic beggar class like the cleric.

4 You can chose Spirit Healer to make a mage have 4 spells that a mage who doesn't chose Spirit Healer have. Spirit Healer doesn't make a mage play any differently than a mage.

If you add in Arcane Warrior, the mage will be a mage that has to run lots of sustained abilities and can't cast spells very good. That is not a cleric.

5 Since there are dieties in the game (and more dieties than just the Maker) I don't see why some people are opposed to the concept of a cleric. The lore does say (the Chantry does say) that the Maker gave Andraste special powers. So the Maker can obviously chose to give someone else special powers too.

1Why do you think i said it seems that way? Did i say it was fact? No. did i say that was how it appeared to me? Yes.

2 Have you had Oghren with you while at thet part?  He offers another explanation.

I said that religion is a matter of faith not fact, of course Elves can tatoo themselves and pray.

3 So do lots of others. in our world. You can even get her to dismiss the idea.

4 i dont mean only being Spirit Healer and Arcane Wariior, i meant everyhting from each peice of armour to each spell chosen specifically for that. The only difference is that it isnt forced on you.

5 There is no confirmation of deiteis in this game at all. That was the intention from the start.

[ladydesire]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Since there are dieties in the game (and more dieties than just the Maker) I don't see why some people are opposed to the concept of a cleric. The lore does say (the Chantry does say) that the Maker gave Andraste special powers. So the Maker can obviously chose to give someone else special powers too.

It's not that we're opposed to it; it's that the concept of a Cleric is totally against the lore of the game. To me, Andraste is more like a Templar than a Cleric, at least from what I've read about her so far in game.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Baalzie wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Viglin wrote...

Why is it so many people on here want/demand changes, when most of them can easily be done by the players choices.

Because we know that there is most likely going to be an expansion and that that expansion should be as good as possible.

And those 'good' changes is about going against the Lore they alraedy put into the game?
I dare say not...
This is not an mmo, where they have to release new playable races and classes every so often to keep the millions of grinders somewhat happy and give them a new angle to grind from...
This is a singleplayer story(lore)driven rpg...
Changing the lore and backgrounds around might be okey for a game like  "Insert major mmo here" but in a storydriven sp rpg.... It would be failboat...
And the s.c. "clerics" ingame are priests *other name for priest=Cleric, even without magic, check Medieval times, we had those in Europe yeknow, but no divine magic:P* and have no magic whatsoever, even their blessings are only words of faith, no power whatsoever, as they themselves even say vehemently...

So... Adding Clerics into the campainsetting would be total failboat, against current established lore *there are none in Thedas as now, and ALL magic is mages' work including healing and buffs* and thereby not something Bioware would do I think...
However I might be wrong and Bioware might just have a collective braindamage and start killing their own setting.... But not very likely...

I don't dislike if modders make Clerics and if people put that into their own campains and whatnot, even the OC, but for Bioware to do a total 180 like that? Nahh...

So if they DID add Clerics, they would probably LOSE more players than they would possibly gain by caving in to unpopular demand by a smallpart of the playerbase^^
I sure would be peeved if they did a Blizzard and killed their own lore and background in every sequel...
Edit: All this is ofcoure in my OPINION, and not stated as absolute facts, or anything... I rarely state my opinions as facts, unless the 2 correlate totally ofc... ^^

I'm not asking them to kill their lore.  I'm asking that they add Clerics.

[fluffyamoeba]

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.



Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

[The Capital Gaultier]

fluffyamoeba wrote...

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.

Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

Then don't put in divine magic.

[FlintlockJazz]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fluffyamoeba wrote...

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.

Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

Then don't put in divine magic.

Then you can't have clerics as you want them.  Clerics have mundane skills covered by the other classes, Leliana is your ingame cleric.

[The Capital Gaultier]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fluffyamoeba wrote...

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.

Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

Then don't put in divine magic.

Then you can't have clerics as you want them.  Clerics have mundane skills covered by the other classes, Leliana is your ingame cleric.

You certainly can.  All the other classes have been adapted to DA:O - no reason that Clerics cannot be.

[FlintlockJazz]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fluffyamoeba wrote...

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.

Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

Then don't put in divine magic.

Then you can't have clerics as you want them.  Clerics have mundane skills covered by the other classes, Leliana is your ingame cleric.

You certainly can.  All the other classes have been adapted to DA:O - no reason that Clerics cannot be.

But if they have no divine magic then they have no powers from their god, and the gods in this game don't bestow powers.  And why would you want them to be identical to every other implementation of clerics in other games anyway?  Why not try something new?  Like a preacher who shouts his head off about how people are sinners for instance?  Much more realistic and fun.

[The Capital Gaultier]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

fluffyamoeba wrote...

Put in divine magic and nearly all the lore in the game falls apart. It would totally ruin the setting. Having faith exist in Dragon Age is one of the major differences between this setting and other CRPG settings. It would render the 2 books and this game completely non-canon.

Also, i thought this was the non-spoiler forum

Then don't put in divine magic.

Then you can't have clerics as you want them.  Clerics have mundane skills covered by the other classes, Leliana is your ingame cleric.

You certainly can.  All the other classes have been adapted to DA:O - no reason that Clerics cannot be.

But if they have no divine magic then they have no powers from their god, and the gods in this game don't bestow powers.  And why would you want them to be identical to every other implementation of clerics in other games anyway?  Why not try something new?  Like a preacher who shouts his head off about how people are sinners for instance?  Much more realistic and fun.

I don't want them to be identical to Clerics in other games.  I want their role back.  The background, attitudes, specific abilities and the like ought to be different.

[royen1]

ladydesire wrote...

Said "cleric" is, at least in the toolset version of Ostegar, a Warrior dressed in the same Chartry robes as Leilana is when you first encounter her. So are several of the others that I looked at.

Yeah. Part of what makes these threads frustrating is that people fail to specify what they're asking for: A cleric is simply a member of a religious clergy, which is obviously possible with the current lore. What most people seem to mean when they say cleric, though, is the DnD class.

What surprises me is that people seem unable to decouple the mechanics of a cleric class -- spellcasting in armor, healing, buffing et cetera -- from the lore -- pull with the guy upstairs. As has been pointed out about a bazillion times, the mechanics part is perfectly possible, and I think most people would have no problems with a class/specialization that fulfills the same role as the DnD cleric class (I'm with the people who argue that the AW/SH combo already does). What is expressly prohibited by the current lore is divine spellcasting in any way shape or form -- even the existance of the Maker is uncertain. I think we can assume that Gaider & Co did not do this by mistake.
 
I'd be plenty fine with a cleric specialization for either the warrior or rogue class that focuses on morale style buffs or even plain diplomacy (the game is seriously lacking in non-combat talents). DnD-style cleric with all the trimmings though? knothxbai!

Modifié par royen1, 02 janvier 2010 - 01:19 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

But if they have no divine magic then they have no powers from their god, and the gods in this game don't bestow powers.  And why would you want them to be identical to every other implementation of clerics in other games anyway?  Why not try something new?  Like a preacher who shouts his head off about how people are sinners for instance?  Much more realistic and fun.

And so the anti-theists bring in their hate rhetoric once again. Take your biggoted comments about real world religion elsewhere please. It is not appropriate for this forum.

Oh, you calime that the gods in the game don't grant powers. But Andraste was granted powers by the Maker. So the Maker could grant others powers or the other gods could do so.

[Sidney]

royen1 wrote...
 
I'd be plenty fine with a cleric specialization for either the warrior or rogue class that focuses on morale style buffs or even plain diplomacy (the game is seriously lacking in non-combat talents). DnD-style cleric with all the trimmings though? knothxbai!

Well and again things like a Champion manage the morale buffs and such. This isn't about game mechanics because the game can solve for anything clerics do actually do, it is about having a class called "clerics".

[The Capital Gaultier]

Sidney wrote...

royen1 wrote...
 
I'd be plenty fine with a cleric specialization for either the warrior or rogue class that focuses on morale style buffs or even plain diplomacy (the game is seriously lacking in non-combat talents). DnD-style cleric with all the trimmings though? knothxbai!

Well and again things like a Champion manage the morale buffs and such. This isn't about game mechanics because the game can solve for anything clerics do actually do, it is about having a class called "clerics".

This is about mechanics to me, and the game cannot provide me with what Clerics actually do.