182 réponses à ce sujet

[Transairion]

Let me guess, you used a basic calculator? On your phone perhaps?
ie One that does not follow Scientific laws?
Laws which tell you to follow the Order of Ops at all times?

I used a caculator bigger than my hand (looks like it's from the 90's), so it only seemed capable of one at a time, yeah.

Keep arguing against facts kid, it's fun.
You still want to tell me that things only exist if you believe they do?

I never said I was arguing against your answer, only that adding/removing paranthesis (?) completely changes the question, and thus changes the answer. Using your Harvard-stamp-of-approval method you basically do the end of the question first (assuming left-to-right reading), even though you'd logically assume you'd do the sums in the order it's written.

I'm curious though, get your fancy caculator and put the question in exactly as written and see what answer it gives. No adding parathesis, the question has none remember? I want to see if you caculator is smarter than mine to work it out itself.

As far as I'm aware anyone who puts it in a caculator exactly as written will get 0 because it *0 the one before, whatever that may be.



Why are we quizzing BSN about maths again?

[mpompeo27]

13

[Vandicus]

Transairion wrote...

Let me guess, you used a basic calculator? On your phone perhaps?
ie One that does not follow Scientific laws?
Laws which tell you to follow the Order of Ops at all times?

I used a caculator bigger than my hand (looks like it's from the 90's), so it only seemed capable of one at a time, yeah.

Keep arguing against facts kid, it's fun.
You still want to tell me that things only exist if you believe they do?

I never said I was arguing against your answer, only that adding/removing paranthesis (?) completely changes the question, and thus changes the answer. Using your Harvard-stamp-of-approval method you basically do the end of the question first (assuming left-to-right reading), even though you'd logically assume you'd do the sums in the order it's written.

I'm curious though, get your fancy caculator and put the question in exactly as written and see what answer it gives. No adding parathesis, the question has none remember? I want to see if you caculator is smarter than mine to work it out itself.

As far as I'm aware anyone who puts it in a caculator exactly as written will get 0 because it *0 the one before, whatever that may be.



Why are we quizzing BSN about maths again?

13. Not familiar with graphing calculators or the order of operations? Where do you live man?

Modifié par Vandicus, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:17 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Transairion wrote...

Let me guess, you used a basic calculator? On your phone perhaps?
ie One that does not follow Scientific laws?
Laws which tell you to follow the Order of Ops at all times?

I used a caculator bigger than my hand (looks like it's from the 90's), so it only seemed capable of one at a time, yeah.

Keep arguing against facts kid, it's fun.
You still want to tell me that things only exist if you believe they do?

I never said I was arguing against your answer, only that adding/removing paranthesis (?) completely changes the question, and thus changes the answer. Using your Harvard-stamp-of-approval method you basically do the end of the question first (assuming left-to-right reading), even though you'd logically assume you'd do the sums in the order it's written.

I'm curious though, get your fancy caculator and put the question in exactly as written and see what answer it gives. No adding parathesis, the question has none remember? I want to see if you caculator is smarter than mine to work it out itself.

As far as I'm aware anyone who puts it in a caculator exactly as written will get 0 because it *0 the one before, whatever that may be.



Why are we quizzing BSN about maths again?

Transairion wrote...

Order of Operations:
Parentheses
Exponents
Multiply/Divide
Add/Subtract

The answer of 13 is only correct if we deem this "correct".

I find it a little hard to believe this is deemed correct across the entire planet and every school in the world is teaching it, lol? I just don't understand why doing the multiplaction first (which is placed at the end) must be right.

Am I butthurt? Probably but according to you all my Maths teachers got it wrong too...

This is you, saying that a Scientific Law is only correct if you deem it "correct"

As far as the Calculator bit goes, you could go use the GOOGLE calculator for all I care, you'll get the same answer as you SHOULD. 13
Here's a Pic:




Oh look! Even Goolge knows what a ghost parentheses is!! Good Google!!
You know how to do "Maths"!!! (By the way...there is no "s" in MATH)

[Yajuu Omoi]

Vandicus wrote...

Transairion wrote...

I'm curious though, get your fancy caculator and put the question in exactly as written and see what answer it gives.

13. Not familiar with graphing calculators or the order of operations? Where do you live man?

I'm guessing a fourth-world country (Do they even exist??? )
I've been to "Third-world" counties many times, and most children there that have had any kind of education beyond simple reading and writing know what "PEMDAS" is...they may not have access to any form of calculator, but they still know how to use their brain.

It really is a shame when people who have a computer can't even understand basic math...

[Yajuu Omoi]

Just to explain a "ghost" parentheses to anyone who might not understand;
In the Order of Operations (I'll start calling it the O3 for short) you follow this pattern:

Parentheses
Exponents
Multiply/Divide
Add/Subtract

Now in this equation: 2+2*5-2/1
There are no parentheses.
So you automatically place a "ghost" parentheses around the higher steps, and as there are also no exponents you place "ghost" exponents on all numbers. Like this:
2^1 + (2^1 * 5^10 - (2^1 / 1^1)

There, now follow the O3.

Parentheses (2^1 * 5^1) and (2^1 / 1^1)
Exponents (Anything with a one exponent is itself)
Multiply/DIvide 2*5=10 and 2/1=2
Add/Subtract 2+10-2=10

And there you are, we just followed the Order of Operations!

Even with just a single number you follow the SciLaws.

Example: A=5

Easy to understand yes?
Here's what it looks like with the SciLaws expanded:
A = (+5^1)
Because the 5 is positive, and only to the first power (itself)

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Transairion]

This is you, saying that a Scientific Law is only correct if you deem it "correct"

I was reffering to the order of doing the sum being opposite to the way it's written... which is the same logic as reviewing a book backwards, honestly. Forgive me for questioning something that's never been taught to me before.

Oh look! Even Goolge knows what a ghost parentheses is!! Good Google!!

Ghost Parentheses now? Never heard of it before in my life... every time they actually put in the effort to do Parentheses to begin with... should I get in trouble for not seeing the Ghost Negative sign too? >_>

Also, we had a subject called "Maths" in school. Yes, "Maths", we did "Maths". Unfortuantly the entire globe is not part of AMURIKAH, so we do not label everything the exact same way.

I live in Australia BTW (not some underground hole in Antarticia where teachers fear to tread), all sums with Parathesies have actual Parathesies in it. Ghost Parathesesies, aka "we didn't put them in put them in yourself", is basically changing the question as far as I was taught. Still doesn't work on any of my school caculators.

I'm guessing a fourth-world country (Do they even exist??? )
I've been to "Third-world" counties many times, and most children there that have had any kind of education beyond simple reading and writing know what "PEMDAS" is...they may not have access to any form of calculator, but they still know how to use their brain.

It really is a shame when people who have a computer can't even understand basic math...

- Cites self as a mature adult speaking to a child
- Better show of maturity by insulting "child"

Congratulations you've proven yourself to abuse children according to your owns words, +1 harrasment report for you!

Modifié par Transairion, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:40 .

[Josh3598]

Erm, I'm probably just being thick, but what's a parantheses and an exponent?

[MP-Ryan]

Transairion wrote...
*snip*

Apparently there was a gap in your education or you have misunderstood.  Order of operations is a universal mathematical principle that is required for high-level mathematical equaions, and yes, the laws of mathematics are the same across the world.  That's why it's so useful.

Multiplication, wit parentheses or without, always occurs before addition/subtraction.

[Vandicus]

Transairion wrote...

This is you, saying that a Scientific Law is only correct if you deem it "correct"

I was reffering to the order of doing the sum being opposite to the way it's written... which is the same logic as reviewing a book backwards, honestly. Forgive me for questioning something that's never been taught to me before.

Oh look! Even Goolge knows what a ghost parentheses is!! Good Google!!

Ghost Parentheses now? Never heard of it before in my life... every time they actually put in the effort to do Parentheses to begin with... should I get in trouble for not seeing the Ghost Negative sign too? >_>

Also, we had a subject called "Maths" in school. Yes, "Maths", we did "Maths". Unfortuantly the entire globe is not part of AMURIKAH, so we do not label everything the exact same way.

I live in Australia BTW (not some underground hole in Antarticia where teachers fear to tread), all sums with Parathesies have actual Parathesies in it. Ghost Parathesesies, aka "we didn't put them in put them in yourself", is basically changing the question as far as I was taught. Still doesn't work on any of my school caculators.

I'm guessing a fourth-world country (Do they even exist??? )
I've been to "Third-world" counties many times, and most children there that have had any kind of education beyond simple reading and writing know what "PEMDAS" is...they may not have access to any form of calculator, but they still know how to use their brain.

It really is a shame when people who have a computer can't even understand basic math...

- Cites self as a mature adult speaking to a child
- Better show of maturity by insulting "child"

Congratulations you've proven yourself to abuse children according to your owns words, +1 harrasment report for you!

Order of operations is not American exclusive.

[MP-Ryan]

Josh3598 wrote...

Erm, I'm probably just being thick, but what's a parantheses and an exponent?

Paratheses are ( )

Exponents express when a number is raised to a power, e.g. 2²

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 20 octobre 2012 - 02:44 .

[DragonRacer]

What does this have to do with multiplayer?

[Yajuu Omoi]

Transairion wrote...
- Cites self as a mature adult speaking to a child
- Better show of maturity by insulting "child"

Congratulations you've proven yourself to abuse children according to your owns words, +1 harrasment report for you!

When did I insult anyone?
And how in the heck am I abusing ANYONE?

I'm very curious about something, do this equation real quick:

A+BC
Where (A=1, B=2 and C=5)
Follow EXACTLY what you were taught in school to solve this...I'll show you a miracle...I hope.

[Yajuu Omoi]

DragonRacer wrote...

What does this have to do with multiplayer?

It shows that there are some people in these forums and on the game that truely don't understand simple logic, and therefore make playing the game WITH them that much harder.

[Transairion]

Order of operations is a universal mathematical principle that is required for high-level mathematical equaions, and yes, the laws of mathematics are the same across the world. That's why it's so useful.

Emphasis on the high level then, since I sure didn't choose the advanced Math(s) subjects and they didn't ever mention the Order of Operations in the one I took. The advanced Math(s) subjects being required for stuff like Piloting, Psyhics, not sure. High school was a while ago.

/Inb4 "LOL TOOK THE RETARDED class"

[Jaze55]

Yeah that's how I was taught. If you don't see any () or an exponent in an equation you would then make "ghost parentheses" around what you needed to figure out first.

For example your equation was:

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+-1+1+1+1+1+1*0

In my head I looked at that and automatically read it like this:

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+-1+1+1+1+1+(1*0)

Because I needed to figure out that part of the equation first. Once you get that answer you then check to see if there are any divisions needed to be done. If there are you can add your own () around the division just so you know thats what's needed to be solved next. And so on....

so you figure out 1x0=0

Next you figure out the addition so you make the equation look like this:

(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1)-1
(1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1) = 14
now all thats left is the subtraction so new problem is:

(14-1) = 13

See you can add parentheses any time you want, as long as there we none there to start with. It just makes it easier to know whats next and to isolate the part of the equation you are working on Because you do need to follow PEMDAS.

Anyway why am I taking a dam math test on a Saturday morning on a gaming site?

[Yajuu Omoi]

Transairion wrote...

Order of operations is a universal mathematical principle that is required for high-level mathematical equaions, and yes, the laws of mathematics are the same across the world. That's why it's so useful.

Emphasis on the high level then, since I sure didn't choose the advanced Math(s) subjects and they didn't ever mention the Order of Operations in the one I took. The advanced Math(s) subjects being required for stuff like Piloting, Psyhics, not sure. High school was a while ago.

/Inb4 "LOL TOOK THE RETARDED class"

The Order of Operations is taught in the first few years of math courses around the world. It is the basis of ALL mathematic equations. You have to learn that before you even learn 2+2... 

[ryoldschool]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

I would fire you if you wrote software code like that, lol. Its the kind of cheap gotcha question you would see on an intro to programming first quiz to see if somebody knew how to prioritize operators. If you were interested in communicating you would make anything unusual very clear, which you went out of your way not to do. Most people looking at code like that would assume you forgot to put the brackets around everything before the *, and a maintenance programmer would probably do that thinking he was cleaning up the code....... Yeah breaking program...

...WHAT are you TALKING about?

Brackets are not needed unles you need to actually separate parts of an equation.

The equation is not written wrong.
The answer is 13. Period.

10 followed by a -1, then 4, and a 1*0

10-1+4+0=13

I would still fire you.  That the equation is written wrong or not depends on the purpose.  If the purpose is to communicate a mathimatical operation to somebody else so that they may easily do the calculation, then I would say that your equation as written failed.   If there is any doubt about the operations you should put brackets in, required or not.

However, I would guess that you were not really trying to write a clear equation, and you have succeeded in that.

[abristow]

The amount of stupidity in this thread regarding math is killing me... This problem has nothing to with parenthesis!
Lookie here:
2 + (3x5) = 17
2 + 3 x 5 = 17
Whoa! Black magic? No, this is math.

[Yajuu Omoi]

ryoldschool wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

I would fire you if you wrote software code like that, lol. Its the kind of cheap gotcha question you would see on an intro to programming first quiz to see if somebody knew how to prioritize operators. If you were interested in communicating you would make anything unusual very clear, which you went out of your way not to do. Most people looking at code like that would assume you forgot to put the brackets around everything before the *, and a maintenance programmer would probably do that thinking he was cleaning up the code....... Yeah breaking program...

...WHAT are you TALKING about?

Brackets are not needed unles you need to actually separate parts of an equation.

The equation is not written wrong.
The answer is 13. Period.

10 followed by a -1, then 4, and a 1*0

10-1+4+0=13

I would still fire you.  That the equation is written wrong or not depends on the purpose.  If the purpose is to communicate a mathimatical operation to somebody else so that they may easily do the calculation, then I would say that your equation as written failed.   If there is any doubt about the operations you should put brackets in, required or not.

However, I would guess that you were not really trying to write a clear equation, and you have succeeded in that.

Again, the equation is PERFECTLY clear if you understand basic math.
I've practically turned into a teach on this thread...just read the posts and realize that you are wrong as well.
If you understand the basic rules of math you would know full well to multiply first, as should anyone else.

But it is nice to know you'd fire me even though I work IN said industry...

[Transairion]

[quote]When did I insult anyone?
And how in the heck am I abusing ANYONE?[/.quote]

I am beyond flabberghasted that you ask this, but here you go:


[quote]You...trolling? Or are you ACTUALLY that dumb?[/quote]
[QUOTE]And you, have become downright bothersome on this forum.
EVERY time I read one of your posts I can't stop but think how stupid you sound.
And you keep proving it.[/QUOTE]

[quote]Keep arguing against facts kid, it's fun.[/quote]
[QUOTE]I'm guessing a fourth-world country (Do they even exist??? )
I've been to "Third-world" counties many times, and most children there that have had any kind of education beyond simple reading and writing know what "PEMDAS" is...they may not have access to any form of calculator, but they still know how to use their brain.
It really is a shame when people who have a computer can't even understand basic math...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The Order of Operations is taught in the first few years of math courses around the world. It is the basis of ALL mathematic equations. You have to learn that before you even learn 2+2...
[/QUOTE] /implying I skipped every Math class I ever had


So of course, you haven't insulted anyone! Here, have a nobel peace prize. I've noted you basically attacked anyone who disagreed/questioned the offical answer too...

[quote]However, I would guess that you were not really trying to write a clear equation, and you have succeeded in that.[/quote]

Personally I consider it more like a trick question, as to solve it you have to use something not in the question to begin with...

That's like putting 5 _ 4 = ? "Only one right answer, clear as day! What, is it a plus or minus, times or divide? Work it out yourself!"

Modifié par Transairion, 20 octobre 2012 - 03:01 .

[rmccowen]

Transairion wrote...

This is you, saying that a Scientific Law is only correct if you deem it "correct"

I was reffering to the order of doing the sum being opposite to the way it's written... which is the same logic as reviewing a book backwards, honestly. Forgive me for questioning something that's never been taught to me before.

@Transairion: Time to take a deep breath. Yajuu is right: order of operations prioritizes multiplication and division over addition and subtraction. It's a convention of mathematical notation that reflects the way natural numbers work in the world.

Going back to the word problem posed earlier: of four friends, each has two apples--but one greedy friend goes out and triples the number of apples he has. How many apples does the group have? The answer is clear regardless of the notation you use: there are 12 apples. You can write the answer as 2+2+2+2*3, which is the same thing as 2+2+2+(2*3). The parentheses can be omitted, because again--mathematicians decided a long time ago that's how they would all do it. 

You're not stupid for not knowing, although I am vaguely irritated at your "maths" teacher.

I live in Australia BTW (not some underground hole in Antarticia where teachers fear to tread)...

Well, I wouldn't go that far, but you people do walk around upside-down all the time. All that blood rushing to your head can't be healthy.

Yajuu Omoi said...

Oh look! Even Goolge knows what a ghost parentheses is!! Good Google!!

@Yajuu Omoi: Stop being a jerk. What you're doing here is poking fun at someone for not knowing something you do, which is (at least) bad pedagogy. I make fun of people, too, but I try to confine it to people who are genuinely incurious and/or aggressively stupid.

There are people in the U.S. who are taught by their science teachers that Earth's seasons happen because the planet is getting further away from the sun. There are people who are taught that the phases of the moon are caused by Earth's shadow. There are lots of people who are taught by their teachers that no one before Columbus knew that the Earth is round; that economies are full of rational actors; that human psychology is based on the ego, id, and superego; that corn ethanol is a clean and efficient substitute for gasoline; and, apparently, that order of operations is always dictated by parentheses.

[EDIT: I'm not expecting you to 'fess up, but it would be interesting for you to reflect on whether you were taught any of those things, and how you'd feel if I spent several forum pages making fun of you for it.]

Those people have received bad information, and counterevidence isn't always immediately available. Helping to correct the bad information is kind of a nice thing to help with; pointing and laughing at those people, not so much.

Modifié par rmccowen, 20 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

abristow wrote...

The amount of stupidity in this thread regarding math is killing me... This problem has nothing to with parenthesis!
Lookie here:
2 + (3x5) = 17
2 + 3 x 5 = 17
Whoa! Black magic? No, this is math.

"But-But, mister! the second one is 25, because 2 + 3 is 5 and 5 x 5 is 25!"

Yes, people WILL say that...no-one seems to understand the Order of Operations is a FACT, a Mathematical RULE, a Scientific LAW that must be followed in EVERY equation...

[spudspot]

DragonRacer wrote...

What does this have to do with multiplayer?

Well, we have trolls trolling each other, so I guess it kinda fits in here...

But yeah, my head hurts simply from reading this thread...

[Jaze55]

abristow wrote...

The amount of stupidity in this thread regarding math is killing me... This problem has nothing to with parenthesis!
Lookie here:
2 + (3x5) = 17
2 + 3 x 5 = 17
Whoa! Black magic? No, this is math.

Exactly. You follow PEMDAS

Parentheses
Exponent
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

In that order. Parentheses or no parentheses

In my example I just said you CAN add them to help you isolate the part of the equation you are working on. It is certainly not needed though. Just follow the simple Order of Operations rule (PEMDAS) and VIOLA! You can now do  simple math. 

It is HILARIOUS how many people are arguing over something that simply can not be argued over. Math is math and it has rules that must be followed. Period.