59 réponses à ce sujet

[teenparty]

 This is probably a controversial opinion, but I know there are people agreeing with me. I do *not* want to be able to import my choices to Dragon Age 3. In a perfect world, it would have been great to have a personalised Dragon Age 3 story based on my choices. In the real world I, the fact is that Bioware has given us too many choices that should be important, but are too difficult to follow up on.

I hope that in the future Bioware will be better at planning ahead. If they knew they were going to use Leliana in DA2, they shouldn't have given us the option to decapitate her in Origins. 

Simply put. some of the pros of making a canon story for Orgins and DA2 would be:

- The God child could have an important role in DA3
- The warden could return
- Old characters that may be alive or dead depending on player choice, may have minor, but integrated roles in DA3
- People wouldn't have to use save editors to make saves to import, because they've lost their 182 playthroughs
- Events that seemed important in Origins and DA2 may have a real impact on DA3.
- List goes on.

[ElitePinecone]

This is all well and good as a thought experiment, but they're well into production of the game. Saying "please do x, y, z" is going to have no effect if it requires a fundamental redesign of the game, and doing away with the save-imports would do that.

David Gaider even said in a thread a couple of days ago that they were continuing with the imports, although there's some kind of tweaks to the feature that he'll talk about in due course. I think it had to do with ensuring "garbage-in, garbage-out" errors don't happen, like the ones that affected DA2 saves with broken plot flags.

Even if Bioware hadn't already confirmed it, I strongly disagree that a canon story is a good idea: a compromised execution of a personalised story based on player choices is far better than a static, linear or canon one. The power of Bioware's games is in their interactivity, and this is one area I'd hate to see disappear.

[MoogleNut]

Part of the reason I love the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games is the save-import - it adds to the feeling that this is my game based on my past actions. Especially as being a gay female gamer, most default states would revert to straight-male playthroughs which obviously takes away my game-state completely. Not to mention morality based choices.(Ugh, Revan is the perfect example of this), It's by no means perfect, but I'm pretty sure the Devs have said they're working an a new import feature which should be more effective for Inquisition.

I can see where you're coming from and no doubt there will be the option not to import a previous save - there is in Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2 and 3 for those who don't want to use the import/haven't played the other previous titles.

Removing the option to import would be a big negative for me at least.

[Abraham_uk]

ElitePinecone wrote...

This is all well and good as a thought experiment, but they're well into production of the game. Saying "please do x, y, z" is going to have no effect if it requires a fundamental redesign of the game, and doing away with the save-imports would do that.

How about "please do x, y, z. Should you refuse, you lose!" Epic ending right there.

[teenparty]

I love the interactivity in the Bioware games, but sometimes it's better in theory than in practice. To make sure things don't get out of hand, I think it would be wise to therefore "wipe the slate clean" once in a while.

[Fiacre]

teenparty wrote...

- The God child could have an important role in DA3
- The warden could return
- Old characters that may be alive or dead depending on player choice, may have minor, but integrated roles in DA3
- People wouldn't have to use save editors to make saves to import, because they've lost their 182 playthroughs
- Events that seemed important in Origins and DA2 may have a real impact on DA3.
- List goes on.

- While I love the OGB plot, there are a lot of people fro whom this wouldn't be a pro at all.
- No, the warden couldn't retunr. A Bioware created NPC could show up, but not "the Warden", because the Warden is different for everyone. If it's just some random NPC that happned to go through the same story, what's the point in having them show up at all? I'd rather he stay disappeared then.


And while you haven't directly listed that, I never understood the argument that your choices don't have an impact with the import because Bioware can't write too many significantly branching story lines. A cameo appearance of Harrowmont's nephew or someone mentioning that your Warden is on the throne or whatever else you've decided is still giving your choice more impact than scrapping your import.

Making the OGB canon doesn't make your Ultimate Sacrifice have more impact, it eliminates any impact it may have had on the Game World. Likewise, making the US canon will destroy any impact choosing the DR might have had. A canon King Alistair might be nice for those that chose it, but it doesn't give the Ferelden monarch choice impact -- it removes any that Anora as solo Queen or with a Warden consort may have had. And considering that there a bunch of different versions of King Alistair (hardened solo, unhardened solo, hardened with Anora and Loghain alive, hardened with Anora and Loghain dead, unhardened with Anora, etc.)...

[teenparty]

Here is how I feel importing was handled in three games:

Mass Effect handled it fairly well. Decisions from past games can influence dialog and story outcomes quite a bit. The problem is that many decisions don't matter as much as I feel they should. If you kill the rachni queen, you find that the Reapers made a new one. If you destory Maleens research data, you find that the Salarians managed to recreate it.

Dragon Age 2 handled import by having a minimal amount of references to Orgins. Very few threads and questions left over from Orgins are picked up or answered.

The witcher 2 handled it extremely poorly. In the Withcer 1 you made several decisions that should have impacted the Wicher 2. Most of these are contradicted or ignored.

[jennamarae]

teenparty wrote...

 I do *not* want to be able to import my choices to Dragon Age 3.

You can achieve the same effect by simply not importing a save. There's no reason to remove it and prevent those who want it from using it, when those who don't want to use it can just ignore it's existance especially when they're already building the third game on the basis of that feature being implemented.

Modifié par jennamarae, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:18 .

[teenparty]

jennamarae wrote...

teenparty wrote...

 I do *not* want to be able to import my choices to Dragon Age 3.

You can achieve the same effect by simply not importing a save. There's no reason to remove it and prevent those who want it from using it, when those who don't want to use it can just ignore it's existance especially when they're already building the third game on the basis of that feature being implemented.

If there is an option to import your save into DA3, then I will definietly use this. My belief is simply that they would be able to make a better, more coherent story if they decided to ignore our choices from DA1 and DA2. 

Take the god baby as an example. Two things may happpen.

1. We never hear about the godbaby again. Maybe a barkeeper will tell us about a romour of  a witche and her child. This would be extremely dissappointing.
2. Bioware finds some way to justify having a goodbaby, both for people who did the ritual and for people who did not. Similar to there being a rachni queen in ME3, even if you killed the one in ME1. 

[thebigbad1013]

Just because you CAN import your saves doesn't mean you have to so why request that the feature be completely removed? You can simply choose not to use it and those who do want to use it, like me, still can. No reason whatsoever to ask for it's removal I think.

[jennamarae]

teenparty wrote...

If there is an option to import your save into DA3, then I will definietly use this. My belief is simply that they would be able to make a better, more coherent story if they decided to ignore our choices from DA1 and DA2.

Perhaps they could; however, importing saves that change the game a bit has been one of Bioware's selling points in recent games. They aren't going to remove that feature in DA3 especially this far into development.

I don't really understand why you would import a save if you don't like the feature to begin with though. I've played DA2, ME2 and ME3 without importing a save from previous games just to see the difference between my import and the preset. It's not a required feature that you have to use if you want to play any of them. DA3 will be no different in that regard.

Modifié par jennamarae, 20 octobre 2012 - 12:30 .

[teenparty]

jennamarae wrote...
I don't really understand why you would import a save if you don't like the feature to begin with though. I've played DA2, ME2 and ME3 without importing a save from previous games just to see the difference between my import and the preset. It's not a required feature that you have to use if you want to play any of them. DA3 will be no different in that regard.

I like the feature. It's just that I think the only way Bioware is going to be able to pick up any of the threads left over from DA1 and DA2 (what happened to the godchild, warden, architecht, king Allistair, etc) is if they make a canon story for DA1 and DA2. 

If Bioware wants to continue using imported saves in games they should be better at planning the effect of choices. Like when they suddenly realised they needed Leliana for DA2, even though she could be killed in DA1.

[R2s Muse]

Agree that it's likely well past the decision point for this. But, in teenparty's defense, I see his/her point that setting a canon world would fix many technical issues with the game that have been discussed ad nauseum here. Just choosing to not import your own save doesn't do that. Moreover, the developers could then choose which choices *they* think are important (like maybe OGB ritual) and then run without it without having to worry who did what when, etc.

That being said, I think there are also lots of ways to still maintain player interactivity, respect our big choices, and import those choices into the new game without some of the problems we've seen. I personally still prefer that, as like others have said, this is one of the real strengths of BW RPGs that we have ownership of our game world.

[jennamarae]

teenparty wrote...
It's just that I think the only way Bioware is going to be able to pick up any of the threads left over from DA1 and DA2 (what happened to the godchild, warden, architecht, king Allistair, etc) is if they make a canon story for DA1 and DA2. 

Maybe, maybe not. The effect of the OGB wasn't really relevant to DA2 and neither was the Architect. DA2 had very little darkspawn and no wardens except a few cameos so there was no reason to bring either topic up. Perhaps DA3 will involve those decisions in some way and make it relevant to include them. We won't know til the game is released. I'd rather they leave loose ends waiting for a game where it makes sense to tie them up than to shoehorn them in where they don't belong.

[teenparty]

jennamarae wrote...

teenparty wrote...
It's just that I think the only way Bioware is going to be able to pick up any of the threads left over from DA1 and DA2 (what happened to the godchild, warden, architecht, king Allistair, etc) is if they make a canon story for DA1 and DA2. 

Maybe, maybe not. The effect of the OGB wasn't really relevant to DA2 and neither was the Architect. DA2 had very little darkspawn and no wardens except a few cameos so there was no reason to bring either topic up. Perhaps DA3 will involve those decisions in some way and make it relevant to include them. We won't know til the game is released. I'd rather they leave loose ends waiting for a game where it makes sense to tie them up than to shoehorn them in where they don't belong.

That's my whole point. They gave DA2 a story where everything that happened in DA1 has little relevance.

[wright1978]

Disagree completely. I like imports system and the feel that i'm importing my game universe.

[RedWulfi]

No way! X( The imports are the main reason I played DA2 I wanted to see what my choices resulted in. If there were no imports full stop it would feel like my choices meant nothing at all.
Yeah they may have not have been a huge difference but seeing characters who spoke about what happened in ferelden got me all tingly inside. I abandoned Amarantine City and got a conversation with a woman who spoke about my warden and her choice to let the city burn. Little things like that.

[hexaligned]

I agree with not having imports. However none of the things you listed should be made canon.

[teenparty]

AndersIsLush wrote...

No way! X( The imports are the main reason I played DA2 I wanted to see what my choices resulted in. If there were no imports full stop it would feel like my choices meant nothing at all.
Yeah they may have not have been a huge difference but seeing characters who spoke about what happened in ferelden got me all tingly inside. I abandoned Amarantine City and got a conversation with a woman who spoke about my warden and her choice to let the city burn. Little things like that.

I totally agree. References to past choices is perhaps the best part of the gaming experience. The problem is that many important choices get ignored, because it is to difficult or expensive for Bioware.

relhart wrote...

I agree with not having imports. However none of the things you listed should be made canon.

... but the godbaby ritual was maybe the most interesting bit in Origins.

Modifié par teenparty, 20 octobre 2012 - 01:31 .

[The Elder King]

relhart wrote...

I agree with not having imports. However none of the things you listed should be made canon.

If they'll ever make a canon story for the DA IP, I'm quite sure they'll make the OGB canon.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

hhh89 wrote...

relhart wrote...

I agree with not having imports. However none of the things you listed should be made canon.

If they'll ever make a canon story for the DA IP, I'm quite sure they'll make the OGB canon.

If they decide to make OGB canon, they better give me the choice to kill Morrigan.

[KENNY4753]

teenparty wrote...
... but the godbaby ritual was maybe the most interesting bit in Origins.

So is this whole thread jsut about you wanting the OGB to be made canon just so it will play a major plot point? That's the way it seems to me.

[Wulfram]

Allowing imports to the game isn't too bad. There are potentially some cool bits, and, while I might prefer it if stuff like the OGB was allowed more prominence, I'll live with it.

What's bad is if the game is written to limit problems for importing to the next game. Stopping the player from making choices in this game because it might be awkward to deal with in the next game is a horrible idea. And leaving stuff open so that it can be handled in an expansion pack or a sequel is annoying, particularly when said expansion pack never materialises.

DA2 seemed to be written to avoid problems with the import to DA3. I felt that was one of the major problems with it. But since it's done, it would be a bit of a waste not to do the import.

So my suggestion would be to allow an import, but to write the current game to be the best stand alone game possible, and then when Bioware are done with this game they can look at where things stand and work out if doing an import for DA4 is practical or not.

[teenparty]

KENNY4753 wrote...

teenparty wrote...
... but the godbaby ritual was maybe the most interesting bit in Origins.

So is this whole thread jsut about you wanting the OGB to be made canon just so it will play a major plot point? That's the way it seems to me.

Yes, but the OGB is just one example. 

[PsychoBlonde]

I'm withholding judgment until after I see what their plans for improving the import with DA3 are. If we get another set of pointless cameos imma be disappoint.