36 réponses à ce sujet

[Blessed Silence]

Aleya wrote...

My question to the community is this:
How do you quantify a game's soul? How do you ensure that it will bowl players over and leave them singing its praises decades after its release? What makes a flawed game (they're all flawed, every game has aspects we don't like) perfect? What is the source of the magic? 

For me, I think time.  Any game rushed to make $$$ is a waste of my time .. and I'm sure we all can name games like that /cough

But story is a bit part for me.  It needs to pull me in, make me blieve I really am part of it, even if the character I play isn't one I created, like many JRPG games.

Graphics not so much.  I floundered so many times on picking up Dragon Quest 8 because I couldn't stand the DragonballZ like graphics (that and Blue Dragon were made by DBZ artists I believe) but once I got into playing it, the story blew me away and I forgot all about the look of the game.

It doesn't have to be mature and gritty to be good.  Cursing and blood and sex does NOT make a good game .. sorry.

Something that I can also not feel I'm in a linear game.  If it's an RPG I want to explore and wander.  I can get lost in Oblivion and Morrowing for friggin hours .. even in Fallout 3.  I spend more time finding secret stashes of things or wander on hidden caves, and never continue the main story for weeks.

[Quicksilver26]

ok will there is no one thing it can be many it's different for everyone it can not nor should it be iidentified  it's like art and beauty it lies in the eyes of the beholder there was one thing for me that kepet DA:O from being 100% perfect that wouldn't matter to anyone else so i think the magic happens when no one is looking when all of us from all around the world can and have gone wow that was amazing and i can pretty much guarantee that it won't really be for the same reason but that doesn't make it any less awesome so to sum up i guess it would just be having a little something for everyone to love don't worry too much on the bigger things because sometimes it's the little things that counts so long as there is a big picture to get to it's not where you been or where you're going that matters but how you get there.

Modifié par Quicksilver26, 20 octobre 2012 - 09:10 .

[Henioo]

Atmosphere.

[Vandicus]

M25105 wrote...

A good story doesn't save a game with crappy mechanics.

.

But people loved DA:O. Other titles that come to mind are NWN1&2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale 1&2, the BGs... These games relied on mechanics that do not port well at all over to the computer format. Heck some of the earliest CRPGs did not even have gameplay mechanics and were entirely textbased.

[Maria Caliban]

Aleya wrote...

So, we have tons and tons of threads about what people do and do not want to see in DA3. We have discussions on player agency, romance options, the dialogue wheel, the identity of the protagonist, our preferred companions, cameos, imported choices, graphics style, combat mechanics, crafting mechanics, character creation, environment, travel, voice actors, camera angles, why we really need horses... You name it and we have analysis, criticism, and recommendations aplenty.

But that's all skin-deep stuff. It's the surface, the polish, the means through which we view a game.

No, that's not the skin-deep stuff. That's the deep tissue stuff.

[Ridwan]

Vandicus wrote...

M25105 wrote...

A good story doesn't save a game with crappy mechanics.

.

But people loved DA:O. Other titles that come to mind are NWN1&2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale 1&2, the BGs... These games relied on mechanics that do not port well at all over to the computer format. Heck some of the earliest CRPGs did not even have gameplay mechanics and were entirely textbased.

DA: Origins had good mechanics, can't speak for the other games since I haven't played them. Looking at the sales though for some of them and it doesn't look impressive at all.

[Vandicus]

M25105 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

M25105 wrote...

A good story doesn't save a game with crappy mechanics.

.

But people loved DA:O. Other titles that come to mind are NWN1&2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale 1&2, the BGs... These games relied on mechanics that do not port well at all over to the computer format. Heck some of the earliest CRPGs did not even have gameplay mechanics and were entirely textbased.

DA: Origins had good mechanics, can't speak for the other games since I haven't played them. Looking at the sales though for some of them and it doesn't look impressive at all.

I don't know what's sadder, that you consider DA:O to be a game with good mechanics, or that you evaluated those games based on sales numbers.

The mechanics in all of those games are essentially the same. It is a good thing that Bioware is moving away from simply porting D&D gameplay to the computer. D&D is not designed for computer gaming(well arguably 4e is since its modeled after MMO gameplay concepts), and its not the best system for tabletop either. The virtue of D&D, that is customizeability, does not even exist in DA:O. So DA:O grabbed the poor balance of D&D while leaving out its positives. NWN2 has the same core mechanics as DA:O but has infininitely more customization options for characters(though the combat is still poor at best).

[Ridwan]

So? I had no issue with the mechanics of DA: Origins, it was slow and there was a lot of abilities, but at no time did it hinder me.

And yes, you know why I look at sales? To see if the game was a success. You think the designers of Planescape wouldn't have preferred if their game sold 5+ million copies?

[FedericoV]

RandomSyhn wrote...


This and emotional investment. Let me care about the characters, laugh when they laugh, cry when they cry, and give a damn about finishing the game for their sakes not mine.

In my case, the emotional investment is a result of the pleasure I feel interacting with the game in terms of mechanics, art and story of course. If the game try too hard to invest me emotionally, I start to doubt the autenticity of the whole thing.

[Vandicus]

M25105 wrote...

So? I had no issue with the mechanics of DA: Origins, it was slow and there was a lot of abilities, but at no time did it hinder me.

And yes, you know why I look at sales? To see if the game was a success. You think the designers of Planescape wouldn't have preferred if their game sold 5+ million copies?

How to describe the mechanics of Origins?

Slow
Unbalanced
Limited in customization(as compared to previous Bioware games that use almost the exact same system)

You like DA:O, and that's why you're saying DA:O has good mechanics. I'm saying you like DA:O despite it having poor mechanics that haven't changed since Baldur's Gate, except to have less customization.


If you want to judge by success and sales, take the time to find out their production costs, development time, the prevailing conditions of the market, etc. Sales numbers alone for one particular product in any industry do not indicate much of anything without context.

[upsettingshorts]

Cumin.

Also in this thread people are confusing mechanics with animation and art style again. It never stops.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 octobre 2012 - 09:55 .