350 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

AndreasShepard wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seems a lot of people want to be told how their own character lives his life.....even though you're the only one that knows that

Told how to live Shepard's life....no, told weather he/she's alive or dead...yes.  Asking for a scene in the hospital where the crew and love interest reunite is not dictating how Shepard lived out the rest of his/her life

Your logic makes no sense anyway, we are not the writers of this universe, Bioware is and always has been and it's up to them to finish the story they began.

my logic makes no sense? Lol umm right...


Yeah, it is Biowares story.(more people should accept that)

However, from the very beginning you shape Shepards character. You make him your own. And now you're basically saying that you would rather they took that away from you in the last scene of the game.

Sorry, you're not making sense. The narratives implication is that he survived. Now he lives on however you would see fit. End of story

[Kathleen321]

I'm probably not as upset of some of you guys but I agree. Having Shep reunite with his/her crew at the end would have made the EC/this series so much better. I've accepted now that it is what it is. I'm not completely satisfied but they've told us there will be no more expansions to the ending so I don't want to get my hopes up for any more DLC. :/

[AresKeith]

BearlyHere wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...



I used to be like you. But now my eyes have been opened. If you could only see it the way I do now. It's so... perfect.

The ending is so perfect that I want to build a shrine to the perfection of it. I want to name my next born MacHudson, in tribute to their awesomeness. 

Why does that sound like a sandwich? lol

[Maxster_]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The the post breath scene is according to Jessica Merizan "Schroedinger's Cat". So it's that point of do we want to open the box to find out? With the box closed Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time. But if we open the box Shepard is dead, even though the file says that Shepard is alive. It's like they just ... don't ... want ... to ... make ... a ... commitment.

So typical of men with commitment issues.

i never went for the schroedinger's cat thing, the cat is alive OR dead, just because you don't know the definitive answer does not mean there isn't one.

as to the men with commitment issues, lol, but my medical record can prove i've most certainly been commited. (couldn't resist lame joke)

But Schroedinger's Cat is part of Quantum Mechanics, which allows for the both situation to exist at the same time.

Uncertainty principle

[Constant Motion]

Tomwew wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

ruddy frustrating though.

While they're at it they could explain Synthesis. 

Is that asking too much?

not enough technobabble in the world sir, even sam carter working with data in dexter's laboratory would be gobsmacked by synthesis

Which is the point. Our grasp of physics is limited.

Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Firing the catalyst in 2180-something is a bit like turning up to the battle of bosworth field in a panzer tank. The locals don't have a clue what they're looking at, aren't mentally equipped to understand how it works - but put 'em in the driving seat and they might be able to trigger something off. All they need to know is what it does. Learning how it works, the principles behind it, will accomplish a grand total of bugger all.

Us here in 2012? No better chance of getting it!

Modifié par Constant Motion, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:17 .

[Mcfly616]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Shepard is alive...

the narrative implication is he lives. the logical one is....... debatable. but i find it a little unlikely he could survive, a scene explaining how his survival is possible, and the impact his decision has had on him (with past choices maybe reflecting this impact, a la slides if they have to, but really don't want to) would help with this.

That would be nice. But it's not a deal breaker not to have one.

the only thing I would spring for would be a scene where he climbs out of the rubble like ME1. That's it. And as MegaSovereign said, its not a dealbreaker. He's alive. Not seeing his face doesnt change that..


a "hospital scene"?? Lol that would suck so hard. I'll take the rubble.


And you're contradicting yourself....you say that you know that its the narratives implication that he lives. But logic says he doesn't.....what logic are you going by? Real life logic? First off its a videogame. Secondly, logic says that if you know what the narrative implies, then you know the logical answer.

[Tomwew]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The the post breath scene is according to Jessica Merizan "Schroedinger's Cat". So it's that point of do we want to open the box to find out? With the box closed Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time. But if we open the box Shepard is dead, even though the file says that Shepard is alive. It's like they just ... don't ... want ... to ... make ... a ... commitment.

So typical of men with commitment issues.

i never went for the schroedinger's cat thing, the cat is alive OR dead, just because you don't know the definitive answer does not mean there isn't one.

as to the men with commitment issues, lol, but my medical record can prove i've most certainly been commited. (couldn't resist lame joke)

But Schroedinger's Cat is part of Quantum Mechanics, which allows for the both situation to exist at the same time.

However, digging into the files can only be done on the PC version, which I had to resort to using screen shots on the internet since I play on the 360.

You miss out on half the fun of gaming. And these things can carry over into real life. Say if you're watching a movie with a friend. Some movies have open endings these days. With experience on the Bioware board with Mass Effect 3 you can now drive your friend up the wall.

You: "Well, that sucked. They're really screwed."
F: "No they're not. They survived and they're going to get rescued."
Y: "How? They've got no radio. No food. No water."
F: "Their team will rescue them."
Y: "Their team doesn't even know where they are. They don't have a transponder either. They're going to die."
F: "No they're not. They'll get out."
Y: "How? Rope? Their rope fell off them in the previous scene, or did you miss that? They're off the grid."
F: "Someone will find them and aid them."
Y: "How do you know? Hardly anyone ever travels that path. They could die."
F: "Thanks. (sarcastically)"
Y: "Now what is it?"
F: "You just ruined the movie."
Y: "I was just pointing ou..."
F: "Shut up."

See? And all you were doing was pointing out stuff like Bioware was pointing out at the CCs and on BSN.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance in the field of quantum mechanics, my entire knowledge of which comes from stargate sg-1, where just the words "well.... with quantum mechanics it could be possible" are often used as an explanation for the science behind certain plots.
but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both

i know it's so much fun when common sense conflicts so drastically with an "interpretation" of an ending.
a great example of a film with a truly well done open ending is in bruges starring colin farrell and brendan gleeson (whoop, big up ma irish boiiis) ya'll should watch that. like everyone here go watch it. seriously. stop wasting timereading this pointless sentence and watch in bruges it's awesome.

[Steelcan]

Shepard Lives!!!

[MegaSovereign]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Shepard is alive...

the narrative implication is he lives. the logical one is....... debatable. but i find it a little unlikely he could survive, a scene explaining how his survival is possible, and the impact his decision has had on him (with past choices maybe reflecting this impact, a la slides if they have to, but really don't want to) would help with this.

That would be nice. But it's not a deal breaker not to have one.

the only thing I would spring for would be a scene where he climbs out of the rubble like ME1. That's it. And as MegaSovereign said, its not a dealbreaker. He's alive. Not seeing his face doesnt change that..


a "hospital scene"?? Lol that would suck so hard. I'll take the rubble.


And you're contradicting yourself....you say that you know that its the narratives implication that he lives. But logic says he doesn't.....what logic are you going by? Real life logic? First off its a videogame. Secondly, logic says that if you know what the narrative implies, then you know the logical answer.

Climbing over the rubble with this song playing:

www.youtube.com/watch

[Tomwew]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Shepard is alive...

the narrative implication is he lives. the logical one is....... debatable. but i find it a little unlikely he could survive, a scene explaining how his survival is possible, and the impact his decision has had on him (with past choices maybe reflecting this impact, a la slides if they have to, but really don't want to) would help with this.

That would be nice. But it's not a deal breaker not to have one.

the only thing I would spring for would be a scene where he climbs out of the rubble like ME1. That's it. And as MegaSovereign said, its not a dealbreaker. He's alive. Not seeing his face doesnt change that..


a "hospital scene"?? Lol that would suck so hard. I'll take the rubble.


And you're contradicting yourself....you say that you know that its the narratives implication that he lives. But logic says he doesn't.....what logic are you going by? Real life logic? First off its a videogame. Secondly, logic says that if you know what the narrative implies, then you know the logical answer.

Great scott mcfly, i don't think i'm contradicting myself, you see the breath is there to signify, "hey guys shep lives" but given the universe this story takes place, and given the state of that universe, the logical question is......... how? at the end of the game if the person you sacrificed on virmire grabbed your hand and pulled you out of the rubble, then disappered whispering "never let gooooo" and the game ended there. your question would be..........how?
crazy things can happen in a story, but they gotta make sense. from the perspective of their own universe.

 leaving it at the rubble let's them say shep lived, in a situation where shep living seems nigh impossible from what we've seen.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The the post breath scene is according to Jessica Merizan "Schroedinger's Cat". So it's that point of do we want to open the box to find out? With the box closed Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time. But if we open the box Shepard is dead, even though the file says that Shepard is alive. It's like they just ... don't ... want ... to ... make ... a ... commitment.

So typical of men with commitment issues.

i never went for the schroedinger's cat thing, the cat is alive OR dead, just because you don't know the definitive answer does not mean there isn't one.

as to the men with commitment issues, lol, but my medical record can prove i've most certainly been commited. (couldn't resist lame joke)

But Schroedinger's Cat is part of Quantum Mechanics, which allows for the both situation to exist at the same time.

However, digging into the files can only be done on the PC version, which I had to resort to using screen shots on the internet since I play on the 360.

You miss out on half the fun of gaming. And these things can carry over into real life. Say if you're watching a movie with a friend. Some movies have open endings these days. With experience on the Bioware board with Mass Effect 3 you can now drive your friend up the wall.

You: "Well, that sucked. They're really screwed."
F: "No they're not. They survived and they're going to get rescued."
Y: "How? They've got no radio. No food. No water."
F: "Their team will rescue them."
Y: "Their team doesn't even know where they are. They don't have a transponder either. They're going to die."
F: "No they're not. They'll get out."
Y: "How? Rope? Their rope fell off them in the previous scene, or did you miss that? They're off the grid."
F: "Someone will find them and aid them."
Y: "How do you know? Hardly anyone ever travels that path. They could die."
F: "Thanks. (sarcastically)"
Y: "Now what is it?"
F: "You just ruined the movie."
Y: "I was just pointing ou..."
F: "Shut up."

See? And all you were doing was pointing out stuff like Bioware was pointing out at the CCs and on BSN.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance in the field of quantum mechanics, my entire knowledge of which comes from stargate sg-1, where just the words "well.... with quantum mechanics it could be possible" are often used as an explanation for the science behind certain plots.
but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both

i know it's so much fun when common sense conflicts so drastically with an "interpretation" of an ending.
a great example of a film with a truly well done open ending is in bruges starring colin farrell and brendan gleeson (whoop, big up ma irish boiiis) ya'll should watch that. like everyone here go watch it. seriously. stop wasting timereading this pointless sentence and watch in bruges it's awesome.

The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics implies that after a while the cat is simultaneously alive and dead so long as the box remains closed. Yet when we look in the box we see the cat alive or dead, not alive and dead at the same time.

[AndreasShepard]

Mcfly616 wrote...

AndreasShepard wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seems a lot of people want to be told how their own character lives his life.....even though you're the only one that knows that

Told how to live Shepard's life....no, told weather he/she's alive or dead...yes.  Asking for a scene in the hospital where the crew and love interest reunite is not dictating how Shepard lived out the rest of his/her life

Your logic makes no sense anyway, we are not the writers of this universe, Bioware is and always has been and it's up to them to finish the story they began.

my logic makes no sense? Lol umm right...


Yeah, it is Biowares story.(more people should accept that)

However, from the very beginning you shape Shepards character. You make him your own. And now you're basically saying that you would rather they took that away from you in the last scene of the game.

Sorry, you're not making sense. The narratives implication is that he survived. Now he lives on however you would see fit. End of story

Yes your logic makes no sense, Bioware told us definitely what happened to Shepard in control/synthesis so that right there proves that you're wrong about them not being able to tell us what happens to him/her in destroy. 

Showing Shepard alive and reuniting with the crew would be the ultimate reflection of how you shaped your Shepard's story over the story arc since the people at your hospital bedside would be the characters you spent time forging relationships with, your love interest, the ME2 characters you managed to keep alive through the suicide mission.  The possibilities to make it a deeply personal experience to our individual Shepards are endless and your total lack of imagination shows just how close minded of a person you are.

You may not care about these characters or want to see what happens to them but plenty of people do so stop trolling, take your crappy rubble scene and get out.

Modifié par AndreasShepard, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:33 .

[Gervaise]

Actually what would have been helpful would have been showing the fate of the other people on the Citadel immediately following the activation of the Crucible. Unless you've seen the get together with the fans where the writer actually answers this very question, you have no idea. I assumed they were all dead but apparently not so and kinetic barriers and shields preserved the lives of many even on the detached bits of the Citadel. (Thus proving again that the Catalyst was scare mongering the adverse effects of the Destroy ending - since apparently this technology upon which survival depended reamined operational). Many people have argued Shepard could not survive owing to being stranded on a ruined Citadel, isolated and without air, etc, but there is every chance that he/she would be found by the other survivors. The only shot of the Citadel post activation makes it appear ruined and deserted. So showing a few survivors climbing in the rubble and then Shepard's breath scene would help resolve how Shepard could survive, whilst still leaving it sufficiently ambiguous as the writers intended.

I seem to recall that is a shot that you get on a low EMS ending, when all they find is an empty helmet, so would it be so difficult to get the same shot where they find the body?

[AlanC9]

Tomwew wrote...

but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both.

That's not quite right. The death of the cat is triggered by the decay of a single radioactive atom. According to quantum theory, after one half-life an unoberved atom is both decayed and not decayed (quantum superposition; all states are true until you actually observe them and see which one is the case for you). The thought-experiment with the cat is about extending that weird behavior of subatomic particles, where nobody really cares, to things at the macroscopic level, where we do care.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:33 .

[Tomwew]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The the post breath scene is according to Jessica Merizan "Schroedinger's Cat". So it's that point of do we want to open the box to find out? With the box closed Shepard is both alive and dead at the same time. But if we open the box Shepard is dead, even though the file says that Shepard is alive. It's like they just ... don't ... want ... to ... make ... a ... commitment.

So typical of men with commitment issues.

i never went for the schroedinger's cat thing, the cat is alive OR dead, just because you don't know the definitive answer does not mean there isn't one.

as to the men with commitment issues, lol, but my medical record can prove i've most certainly been commited. (couldn't resist lame joke)

But Schroedinger's Cat is part of Quantum Mechanics, which allows for the both situation to exist at the same time.

However, digging into the files can only be done on the PC version, which I had to resort to using screen shots on the internet since I play on the 360.

You miss out on half the fun of gaming. And these things can carry over into real life. Say if you're watching a movie with a friend. Some movies have open endings these days. With experience on the Bioware board with Mass Effect 3 you can now drive your friend up the wall.

You: "Well, that sucked. They're really screwed."
F: "No they're not. They survived and they're going to get rescued."
Y: "How? They've got no radio. No food. No water."
F: "Their team will rescue them."
Y: "Their team doesn't even know where they are. They don't have a transponder either. They're going to die."
F: "No they're not. They'll get out."
Y: "How? Rope? Their rope fell off them in the previous scene, or did you miss that? They're off the grid."
F: "Someone will find them and aid them."
Y: "How do you know? Hardly anyone ever travels that path. They could die."
F: "Thanks. (sarcastically)"
Y: "Now what is it?"
F: "You just ruined the movie."
Y: "I was just pointing ou..."
F: "Shut up."

See? And all you were doing was pointing out stuff like Bioware was pointing out at the CCs and on BSN.

you'll have to excuse my ignorance in the field of quantum mechanics, my entire knowledge of which comes from stargate sg-1, where just the words "well.... with quantum mechanics it could be possible" are often used as an explanation for the science behind certain plots.
but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both

i know it's so much fun when common sense conflicts so drastically with an "interpretation" of an ending.
a great example of a film with a truly well done open ending is in bruges starring colin farrell and brendan gleeson (whoop, big up ma irish boiiis) ya'll should watch that. like everyone here go watch it. seriously. stop wasting timereading this pointless sentence and watch in bruges it's awesome.

The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics implies that after a while the cat is simultaneously alive and dead so long as the box remains closed. Yet when we look in the box we see the cat alive or dead, not alive and dead at the same time.

but. objectively. the cat is alive OR dead. whether we can prove it or not. right?

[AlanC9]

Tomwew wrote...

but. objectively. the cat is alive OR dead. whether we can prove it or not. right?

That's the problem. There is no "objectively" without observation. No observation, no objective truth.

[Steelcan]

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall

[Applepie_Svk]

rubble scene simply does not make a sense for literal version of endings... deal with it

[Steelcan]

Applepie_Svk wrote...


rubble scene simply does not make a sense for literal version of endings... deal with it

. Well Synthesis spits in the face of all logic and reason, control to a lesser degree, why should destroy be any different?

[Tomwew]

AlanC9 wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both.

That's not quite right. The death of the cat is triggered by the decay of a single radioactive atom. According to quantum theory, after one half-life an unoberved atom is both decayed and not decayed (quantum superposition; all states are true until you actually observe them and see which one is the case for you). The thought-experiment with the cat is about extending that weird behavior of subatomic particles, where nobody really cares, to things at the macroscopic level, where we do care.

ah i see. it's a metaphor so? which means the cat is alive or dead. should a real life experiment be conducted on a cat.

[AlanC9]

Applepie_Svk wrote...



rubble scene simply does not make a sense for literal version of endings... deal with it

That's the energy wave from Destroy expanding outward, not an explosion. You know better.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:41 .

[Maxster_]

AlanC9 wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...



rubble scene simply does not make a sense for literal version of endings... deal with it

That's the energy wave from Destroy expanding outwar,d not an explosion. You know better.

Like from star?

[Steelcan]

Tomwew wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

but as far as i'm aware Schroedinger's experiment was (basically) to put poison in a box with a cat, with no knowledge as to when, if at all, the poison would affect and kill the cat. in this situation the cat is alive OR dead. not both.

That's not quite right. The death of the cat is triggered by the decay of a single radioactive atom. According to quantum theory, after one half-life an unoberved atom is both decayed and not decayed (quantum superposition; all states are true until you actually observe them and see which one is the case for you). The thought-experiment with the cat is about extending that weird behavior of subatomic particles, where nobody really cares, to things at the macroscopic level, where we do care.

ah i see. it's a metaphor so? which means the cat is alive or dead. should a real life experiment be conducted on a cat.

. This was carried out when animal experimentation wasn't viewed the same way as today

[AlanC9]

Tomwew wrote...

ah i see. it's a metaphor so? which means the cat is alive or dead. should a real life experiment be conducted on a cat.

It's actually been tried, though not with something as big as a cat. Fromthe Wikipedia entry on the topic:

The experiment as described is a purely theoretical one, and the machine proposed is not known to have been constructed. However, successful experiments involving similar principles, e.g. superpositions of relatively large (by the standards of quantum physics) objects have been performed.[12] These experiments do not show that a cat-sized object can be superposed, but the known upper limit on "cat states" has been pushed upwards by them. In many cases the state is short-lived, even when cooled to near absolute zero.

• A "cat state" has been achieved with photons.[13]
• A beryllium ion has been trapped in a superposed state.[14]
• An experiment involving a superconducting quantum interference device ("SQUID") has been linked to theme of the thought experiment: " The superposition state does not correspond to a billion electrons flowing one way and a billion others flowing the other way. Superconducting electrons move en masse. All the superconducting electrons in the SQUID flow both ways around the loop at once when they are in the Schrödinger’s cat state.".[15]
• A piezoelectric "tuning fork" has been constructed, which can be placed into a superposition of vibrating and non vibrating states. The resonator comprises about 10 trillion atoms.[16]
• An experiment involving a flu virus has been proposed.[17]

[AlanC9]

Maxster_ wrote...

That's the energy wave from Destroy expanding outwar,d not an explosion. You know better.

Like from star?

Don't be silly. With high EMS, we see that wave passing harmlessly through troops on Earth a few seconds later.

Modifié par AlanC9, 20 octobre 2012 - 08:42 .