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[Genshie]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

Lessons learned: None.

Good going Bioware!

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

You're well aware people want multiple races to choose from and are also well aware that a lot of people hated the decisions you guys made for DA2. A human-only protagonist was among them. You make the same choice again despite this knowledge. How can you expect consumers to remain confident in your product and your company when you continue to make design choices that are unpopular with the people that buy your games?

With this news, Origins automatically has something DA3 does not.

I will make this simple since alot of people seem to forget this constantly here as cold as it sounds: Its their product not yours. Just because fans don't like a certain feature doesn't  mean that they will be changing it or taking it out. Be glad though they already said that they are improving upon several customization options for the main protagonist that have been there or have been taken out from DA2. For all we know besides the race thing we may have even more options that DAO ever had.  

Then they shouldn't be surprised with the inevitable backlash and lackluster sales like they were with DA2. When you make bad game design choices that neglect your fanbase and what they ask for, it usually has negative consequences.

You know what the races were for in DA:Origins and Awakening? They were there to introduce the player to Dragon Age World and that is it. There is no reason and or need for the option to return. Would it be a nice feature, yes it would but its not needed. And I am pretty sure they were well aware of what would happen with a human only protagonist and the chances they were taking. You are acting like they are walking completely in the dark and unaware of what they were doing while designing DA2. They know the risks that they were taking then and are taking now. 

I would like to think that they were. Knowingly making a mediocre game with so many bad design choices... implications... unpleasant.

Also we just had a mod/admin just say that they know about this just recently.

Modifié par Genshie, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:38 .

[dheer]

David Gaider wrote...
...I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words).

Well, at least there's that I guess. Still, another in a string of hope crushing announcements for features of DA3.

Voiced protagonist? DA2 wins. Wheel with paraphrases or full text? DA2 wins. Racail choice for PC? DA2 wins.

For someone who prefered DA:O's gameplay and feature set, I'm running out of places to look forward to changes for DA3. If the next few announcements are there's now a fixed third person camera and even faster hack and slash combat, I give up.

[Satyricon331]

Cinematic design, no race customization... yay for the people who like that, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm for Bioware anymore.

edit: what dheer said.  The only bone they've thrown so far to the people who disliked DA2 but liked DAO (that I know of) is their decision not to recycle levels.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:43 .

[Fishy]

Elfman wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Now the next thing we will be waiting to hear is if our PC will have and be restricted to just a Orlesain accent.

I'd be totally okay with that.

Same, french accent is pretty.

I would prefer Cullen to be with a Ferelden guy. I just don't like to be Orlesian. Hopefully, there is an option for a Ferelden inquisitor, but based on the cost, it's probably one of the others, hopefully Ferelden. 

I'm willing to bet that accents were a factor in the (wrong, (sorry)), decision to make us humans, so either we'll all be Ferelden/Free Marchers or Orlesian. Probably not Orlesian though, there seems to be a lot of francophobes on these forums...

Yes quite dissapointing. I though the people on these forum were more open-minded and cultivated than that .. But  maybe it's just a few people repeating the same thing over and over.  I don't have any problem with only ''human'' race  but, I hope they have good background option. I am also quite pleased with their level being much more open.

it's seem too many people are just waiting for any reason to complain . People are over dramatic here.

Modifié par Suprez30, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:47 .

[deuce985]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

I'm ok with this compromise.

I'm curious to see how much more customization you guys give us. I felt DAO/DA2 was rather lacking in some places, especially visual customization in both character creation+armor/weapons. Hopefully the backgrounds will work a lot better than they did in Mass Effect. I never felt that had much impact on my story or character. Just seemed like some kind of filler customization to give you the illusion you were crafting your own world. It could be stripped from the game and I wouldn't notice.

The great unknown now is level design(perhaps the biggest thing for me) and combat. As someone said earlier, stripping race selection is ok. Just as long as you give us plenty of option to make it feel like our human PC and less predefined.

Modifié par deuce985, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:53 .

[Genshie]

scyphozoa wrote...

I know I was hoping to see DA3 return to the origins, but I am not really surprised by this news. I imagine it is hard to justify making content when the stats Bioware released a while ago showed that such small % of people played as non-human races.

Now that we know we are playing as a human, I am curious what our protagonist will be named.

The thing I think alot of posters here on the forums forget. Even with the options majority of the people didn't even play any other race besides human.

[RandomSyhn]

Genshie wrote...

One last thing. I find it very hypocritical when people are asking for a stronger story and yet ask for something massive that would take up alot of reasources and time such as different races. By having the main protagonist be human they have alot more time and money to spend on the story portion of the game.

I have to agree, so often I hear. "They treated my elf the same way they treated my human and dwarf" having a human only companion limits you choice but can make NPC reactions more accurate. I'm not saying that allowing each reaction to occur race specific isn't a possibility but it's not a practical one at least with current technologies. I'm not saying I don't miss my kick but she-dwarfs from origin, but right now the human protagonist may be the most practical option. Or it could be a story related choice since explaining how a dwarf of Orzamar ended up in orlais in the same position as a dalish elf just didn't fit right.

[Challseus]

I always play humans anyway, so this decision doesn't affect me in the slightest. However, I just want them to make the best game possible, and if that means not stretching their resources too thin, so be it. Such is game development these days...

[Potato Cat]

Oooh a Flemeth confirmation! Not that there was doubt but still.

http://www.examiner....or-dragon-age-3

[Vandicus]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Question, does "all four races" refer to the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari, or does that mean something else?

[Potato Cat]

Vandicus wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Question, does "all four races" refer to the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari, or does that mean something else?

(Kossith = race. Qunari = philosophy popularised by Kossith)

[Wrathion]

Vandicus wrote...
Question, does "all four races" refer to the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Kossith, or does that mean something else?

Mmm, not to keen on playing at human. I like the elven oppression angle better so I doubt much thought will be put into it if you're not playing from an elven perspective. 
But as long as they don't stop you from playing a mage. 
I'm okay.

[Vandicus]

Elfman wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Question, does "all four races" refer to the Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari, or does that mean something else?

(Kossith = race. Qunari = philosophy popularised by Kossith)

Aware of that. Forgot to use the proper term in my post. 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Cinematic design, no race customization... yay for the people who like that, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm for Bioware anymore.

edit: what dheer said.  The only bone they've thrown so far to the people who disliked DA2 but liked DAO (that I know of) is their decision not to recycle levels.

Looks like I'll be sticking with Skyrim and whatever new DLC they release. At least with that game I can actually choose from multiple races in a fantasy game.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:57 .

[Cyne]

this is not good. I would have loved to play as a qunari or dwarf or elf. I hope we can fully customize our human character at least.

[addiction21]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Cinematic design, no race customization... yay for the people who like that, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm for Bioware anymore.

edit: what dheer said.  The only bone they've thrown so far to the people who disliked DA2 but liked DAO (that I know of) is their decision not to recycle levels.

Ya because likeing DA2 means one had toi like the reused enviroments... Oh wait no they don't.

[deuce985]

I would guess they also mean player choice as being apart of that "customization". Outside backgrounds, they've hinted specialization will play more into your story and be more personalized. We haven't seen the improvements on the dialogue wheel either. So no telling how much more "control" they give back to us over that. Maybe more tone types or personality alignments. Customization doesn't just refer to visual. We might even see bigger skill trees or talents return from DAO in DA3...could be any number of things.

Modifié par deuce985, 21 octobre 2012 - 01:03 .

[deuce985]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Cinematic design, no race customization... yay for the people who like that, but I just don't feel any enthusiasm for Bioware anymore.

edit: what dheer said.  The only bone they've thrown so far to the people who disliked DA2 but liked DAO (that I know of) is their decision not to recycle levels.

C'mon man...speak for yourself.

[Maria Caliban]

Yeah, I don't think we've seen anything designed specifically for people who liked DA:O but hated DA II.

[RussianSpy27]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

That's good news. Hopefully, all races will be playable in the single player component of the game and not just multiplayer. 

[HK-90210]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Well I am looking forward to hearing about it, Mr. Gaider. This is the first thing I've heard about DA3 that has me geuinely excited about it's direction. Compared to the complete apathy I feel about Mass Effect, it's a welcome relief. Keep up the good work!(but please, take ALL the time you feel you need!)

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yeah, I don't think we've seen anything designed specifically for people who liked DA:O but hated DA II.

Whether or not those individuals find it satisfactory or not being irrelevant as far as BioWare's intent is concerned, that seems to be the motivation behind the plan for armor customization that was the first thing revealed.

But the list of things they've actually revealed so far is extremely short.  There is, as they say in sports, a lot of game left to play.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 octobre 2012 - 01:14 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yeah, I don't think we've seen anything designed specifically for people who liked DA:O but hated DA II.

Follower customization. But that isn't new. I wonder if they took it away in DA2 just so they could reintroduce it in DA3 and act like it's new.