574 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Faerunner wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

You don't have to choose between a good book and a video game. Have you ever decided not to buy a book because of the protaganist's race?

And you missed the point of my entire argument. Again, different types of entertainment tickle different types of fancy. I read books and play games for different reasons. I don't read a book to insert my own fictional character into the blank-slate protagonist's shoes and go around selecting a multitude of choices to shape my own story within the universe any more than I play a role-playing video game to passively observe a pre-written character go through a firmly cemented story.

DA:O was a traditional fantasy role-playing game that gave the option to role-play fantasy races, which was a game feature that I and many people like. Being able to role-play a fantasy race is a freature I like about certain fantasy RPG's that I can't get from any other form of media, like books. One of the main reasons I (and many others) like the Dragon Age series is because I like experiencing the stories from different racial and cultural perspecitives, which I cannot get from a human's perspective.

Again, without knowing the story and the PC's role in said story, it's premature to put the hammer down on not being able to play an elf or a dwarf. I think it could very well just not work within the story to be anything other than human, but I suspect people who are heavily invested in playing other races will think that BioWare should have just made it work. As said upthread though, the delicacy involved with racial tension in Thedas and being able to properly do it justice within the timeframe they have to get this game released may just not be feasible.

If BioWare specifically wrote a story with the intent of making it applicable only for a human protagonist, that the player can only experiece from human eyes, then I can't say it sounds like a story I want to experience as the protagonist for this type of game.

I'm not trying to be crass, but I did not like the DA2 story or protagonist and I'm probably not going to like it in DA3 either. I don't tend to like the Andrastian human perspective or culture as BioWare has shown them in these games. I like seeing Thedas from the eyes of elves and dwarves, as I love experiencing the world from their socio/economic/cultural backgrounds far more than any human's, and I would love to see it from the eyes of a kossith. I don't like seeing Thedas from the eyes of Andrastian humans not just because I don't care for them as a society or culture, but because BioWare has yet to make an Andrastian human protagonist whose shoes I want to walk around in. 

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and I understand that you enjoy seeing Thedas through someone else's eyes, but seeing the Blight as a dwarven or elven Warden didn't change the story.

[Xilizhra]

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

[Shadow Fox]

GardenSnake wrote...

iakus wrote...

 I see nothing wrong with playing a human again.  As long as we can make that human our own.

I don't think you get it. Forcing us to play as a human already makes it so that the character isn't ours. One race means voiced protagonist and in my book, that's the biggest way to kill personalizing a character. I can guess that these 'backstories' will be ala Mass Effect, so that's not much of a consolation. 

GOD. DAMNIT. 

I promised myself I wouldn't get mad about DA3, I know it'll be more like 2 than Origins, but I can't help it. 

*pats back* Best just to let it go man  atleast there's still Bethesda.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

It's called preference. People prefered to play as other races. It doesn't have to contribute to the story at all for it to be important.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:34 .

[Caiden012]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

It's called preference. People prefered to play as other races. It doesn't have to contribute to the story at all for it to be important.

Players want their choices in a fantasy RPG. To give them to us in the first game and then just take them away makes no sense.

[Monica21]

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

I agree, Xil. Shaping the personality of my Surana Warden was important, and I enjoyed the narrative more because of it. An elven mage who advocated the Libertarian position, who condemned what the Chantry did to the elves, who told Leliana that Andraste was an ordinary woman and nothing more, who saw faith in the Maker as "foolish superstition," and who faces racism and discrimination. The Warden felt like my character.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Caiden012 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

It's called preference. People prefered to play as other races. It doesn't have to contribute to the story at all for it to be important.

Players want their choices in a fantasy RPG. To give them to us in the first game and then just take them away makes no sense.

Damn right.

GardenSnake wrote...

iakus wrote...

I see nothing wrong with playing a human again. As long as we can make that human our own.

I don't think you get it. Forcing us to play as a human already makes it so that the character isn't ours. One race means voiced protagonist and in my book, that's the biggest way to kill personalizing a character. I can guess that these 'backstories' will be ala Mass Effect, so that's not much of a consolation.

GOD. DAMNIT.

I promised myself I wouldn't get mad about DA3, I know it'll be more like 2 than Origins, but I can't help it.

Yes, it really does suck. Since it will be more like DA2, there will be more bad news on the way, I'm afraid. But at least we still have Origins and Awakening. EAware can never take that from us.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:44 .

[Xilizhra]

Every RPG has RP limits.

And this is an unnecessary one.

[Caiden012]

Monica21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

But to give us more limits since the first game is just a slap in the face.

[Dintonta]

Josielyn wrote...

HEH HEH, playing devil's advocate, maybe it won't be so awful being a human again if there is a "Mirror of transformation" that lets you add pointy ears and adjust your height to very short or very tall. Oh people want different, but not TOO different. I loved being a dwarf in DAO, not because of how I looked, but because of the STORY! I am confident that the writers will give us a great human story that will make us forget why we wanted to look like an elf or dwarf in the first place. Who plays as a different race for looks, and who plays as a different race for the story?

A bit of both, here.

In DA:O, roles and apparences were largely fixed by the race choice (and origin sub-choice.)
Humans, for exemple, were as much limited as the other races in their social status and look. 
I like to play characters I can relate to myself, even in a distant and distorted way.

In order to achieve that in DA:O, I rarely played humans, for reasons that were tied both to their situation in Ferelden and their limited range of physical apparence : I'm smaller and thiner than most people I know, while DA:O humans were rather the tall and 'thick' race (Kossith excepted). Playing as an elf among humans (despite the pointy ears, which are a mere detail compared to the overall body frame) put the 'size scale' the way I usually see it .
As for the role, I had much more empathy with the 'low-classes' races and origins (DC and CE) or the outsider ones (Elf mage, Dalish).
Humans, in comparison with their non-human counterparts, always looked too much 'middle-class', 'upper-class', or 'fereldan' (which, in my headcanon only, translates by 'self-righteous moronic biggots') to me.

If I can customize enough the apparence of my human inquisitrix, so that I won't be forced to play a hulking brute:P, and if at least one of her background choices could be one of a cultural outcast (Chasind?) and if this background choice really matters through the whole game...
I think I will be very happy!

[WardenWade]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Regarding the bolded portion, thank you for the update on this, Mr. Gaider.  I look forward to that day wholeheartedly.

Modifié par WardenWade, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:48 .

[Shadow Fox]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

in other words if your not in the majority you don't count. Sucks don't it?

Yet they haven'nt removed the option to play female characters*thakfully* despite majority playing male characters.


Probably cause they know the media would label them sexist and tear them a new ****.

[Monica21]

Caiden012 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

But to give us more limits since the first game is just a slap in the face.

Really, now? Because a book, comics, and a third game that all continue to expand the world of Thedas seems like not a slap in the face at all.

[Plaintiff]

Sounds good to me. I didn't play as a dwarf ever in Origins and I never completed any of my elf playthroughs, so I don't really care.

The elven and dwarven characters in the party and elsewhere do a better job of conveying the "perspective" of their societies than the origins did. Having pre-set origins doesn't mean a whole lot when they don't give you enough information. The Dalish origin was particularly confusing.

"We hate humans!"

"Okay... why?"

*later*

"Hey you, come help me educate these elf children about our history."

"But... I don't know it."

Modifié par Plaintiff, 21 octobre 2012 - 03:48 .

[Melca36]

I think its pretty sad that people are already judging the game and think they know what its going to be about after learning probably 1 percent of information about it.

I enjoyed the other races as well as playing humans but I am not going to dismiss the game based on one aspect.

I'd rather them focus on ALL aspects of the game instead of focusing one element that only a small minority will use.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Monica21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

Which have nothing to do with the decision to remove race selection, but nevermind me. Carry on.

[unbentbuzzkill]

sad but so true

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

It's cool dawg, I'm too shallow to play a dwarf anyway. God bless you Morrigan

[Caiden012]

Monica21 wrote...

Caiden012 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

But to give us more limits since the first game is just a slap in the face.

Really, now? Because a book, comics, and a third game that all continue to expand the world of Thedas seems like not a slap in the face at all.

That has NOTHING to do with taking away our choices as players!

[Vandicus]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

Every RPG has RP limits.

Which have nothing to do with the decision to remove race selection, but nevermind me. Carry on.

Plot is one thing in RPG that limits RP. The character cannot go off the rails so to speak. In this case, the plot restricts race choice. This is one of this RPG's RP limits.

[Xilizhra]

Really, now? Because a book, comics, and a third game that all continue to expand the world of Thedas seems like not a slap in the face at all.

True. It can seem more like a punch. On fire.

[Shadow Fox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I do understand your point, but what I'm trying to say is that your choice of race in DAO has little to no impact on the story. The story remains the same. You survive Ostagar, get the treaties, go to the Landsmeet, defeat the Archdemon. The changes are mostly in how people address you. Kester treats you like a piece of dirt if you're a city elf but couldn't be more pleased that "someone like you" deigns to talk to someone like him if you're a human noble.

None of this is relevant. Story is good, but roleplaying is important too, and was certainly vital and interesting in Origins. So far, I see no possible adequate reason as to why they'd throw this away for this game.

I agree, Xil. Shaping the personality of my Surana Warden was important, and I enjoyed the narrative more because of it. An elven mage who advocated the Libertarian position, who condemned what the Chantry did to the elves, who told Leliana that Andraste was an ordinary woman and nothing more, who saw faith in the Maker as "foolish superstition," and who faces racism and discrimination. The Warden felt like my character.

Off topic but I'm curious was your warden non-religous or just non-Andrastian?

[Demx]

It starts...

Well that's one mark on the board.

Can Bioware tone down the spite from the other races at least? Fair trade right?

[Savber100]

I got background options. That is more than I expected especially after DA2.