574 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolf]

I am disappointed. It's unsurprising, but still... I guess as long as the background options are actually meaningful and contribute something to the roleplaying aspect of the game instead of being mostly useless like in Mass Effect I'm okay with only being able to be a human again. Next game though, I want to choose between human and elf.

Seriously.

[Battlebloodmage]

Uzzy wrote...

John Epler wrote...

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

Well, I'm glad you're aware that people want multiple races for protagonist. It's a shame that you've not learnt enough to actually implement them though. Guess you're happy with DA2 level sales again!

And everytime you talk about limited resources, I have to think... you managed to put multiple races into a game when Bioware was independent, as well as multiple origins. Now, when you're owned by one of the biggest game companies in the world, suddenly your resources are far more limited? That doesn't add up to me.

Mass Effect series seems to do well despite you're not being about to play as Turian or Asari.

[David Gaider]

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:21 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I prefer to play as a human anyway, so this news is a-ok with me.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

Lessons learned: None.

Good going Bioware!

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

You're well aware people want multiple races to choose from and are also well aware that a lot of people hated the decisions you guys made for DA2. A human-only protagonist was among them. You make the same choice again despite this knowledge. How can you expect consumers to remain confident in your product and your company when you continue to make design choices that are unpopular with the people that buy your games?

With this news, Origins automatically has something DA3 does not.

I will make this simple since alot of people seem to forget this constantly here as cold as it sounds: Its their product not yours. Just because fans don't like a certain feature doesn't  mean that they will be changing it or taking it out. Be glad though they already said that they are improving upon several customization options for the main protagonist that have been there or have been taken out from DA2. For all we know besides the race thing we may have even more options that DAO ever had.  

Then they shouldn't be surprised with the inevitable backlash and lackluster sales like they were with DA2. When you make bad game design choices that neglect your fanbase and what they ask for, it usually has negative consequences.

[JerZey CJ]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

John Epler wrote...

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

Well, I'm glad you're aware that people want multiple races for protagonist. It's a shame that you've not learnt enough to actually implement them though. Guess you're happy with DA2 level sales again!

And everytime you talk about limited resources, I have to think... you managed to put multiple races into a game when Bioware was independent, as well as multiple origins. Now, when you're owned by one of the biggest game companies in the world, suddenly your resources are far more limited? That doesn't add up to me.

Mass Effect series seems to do well despite you're not being about to play as Turian or Asari.

Because that was never an option in ME. It was, however, an option in DA:O, and people weren't really happy when that choice got taken aways in DA2, and surprise surprise, they STILL aren't happy when the choice doesn't return.

[LobselVith8]

Yalision wrote...

This was the second biggest disappointment I had with Dragon Age II. I cannot express my disappointment profoundly enough. Link here. The article is on Kotakus front page now. I can't post links at the moment on my tablet.

I can understand the frustration. I haven't been pleased with many of the developer comments about Inquisition, and I probably won't purchase the game since I'm not enthused about the direction of the franchise. I prefer Origins to Dragon Age II. Perhaps Project Eternity would be more to my taste.

Another human protagonist for Dragon Age seems to keep in line with the developers going in the direction spearheaded by Dragon Age II. It simply isn't for me. I prefer to play as elven protagonists in fantasy settings, rather than humans. Playing as another religiously Andrastian protagonist with auto-lines and paraphrases would probably bore me, or irritate me if I heard my protagonist say he hopes the Maker guides a non-Andrastian (like Hawke did with Feynriel). I would have been interested in a Dalish mage. Exploring their culture and their heritage; seeing how the clans react to the Templar-Mage War; dealing with racism; seeing how differently the characters would treat an elven protagonist from another culture.

You aren't alone, Yalision. Inquisition's Mass Effect styled paraphrasing and character backgrounds don't really interest me.

[Genshie]

One last thing. I find it very hypocritical when people are asking for a stronger story and yet ask for something massive that would take up alot of reasources and time such as different races. By having the main protagonist be human they have alot more time and money to spend on the story portion of the game.

Modifié par Genshie, 21 octobre 2012 - 12:22 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Elfman wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Now the next thing we will be waiting to hear is if our PC will have and be restricted to just a Orlesain accent.

I'd be totally okay with that.

Same, french accent is pretty.

I would prefer Cullen to be with a Ferelden guy. I just don't like to be Orlesian. Hopefully, there is an option for a Ferelden inquisitor, but based on the cost, it's probably one of the others, hopefully Ferelden. 

I'm willing to bet that accents were a factor in the (wrong, (sorry)), decision to make us humans, so either we'll all be Ferelden/Free Marchers or Orlesian. Probably not Orlesian though, there seems to be a lot of francophobes on these forums...

I don't hate French accent, I just don't like to have one. I love the French culture, so I'm actually enjoying being in Orleis. I don't think not wanting to have a particular accent is the same as francophobic.

[Potato Cat]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Race selection in future games?!

Mind skipping DA3 then? I kinda want to play Kossith now.

[robertthebard]

Loki_344 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

See people, you've got a dev going out of his way here to give you a well reasoned explanation for why they decided to take this diection. Can't at least some of you just accept it and move on instead of complaing about it incessantly for the next twelve months?

This is BSN, that'll never happen.

I'm not disappointed in the least.  I'm curious about the background stories, and dreading another SIM's situation castle. 

[Potato Cat]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Now the next thing we will be waiting to hear is if our PC will have and be restricted to just a Orlesain accent.

I'd be totally okay with that.

Same, french accent is pretty.

I would prefer Cullen to be with a Ferelden guy. I just don't like to be Orlesian. Hopefully, there is an option for a Ferelden inquisitor, but based on the cost, it's probably one of the others, hopefully Ferelden. 

I'm willing to bet that accents were a factor in the (wrong, (sorry)), decision to make us humans, so either we'll all be Ferelden/Free Marchers or Orlesian. Probably not Orlesian though, there seems to be a lot of francophobes on these forums...

I don't hate French accent, I just don't like to have one. I love the French culture, so I'm actually enjoying being in Orleis. I don't think not wanting to have a particular accent is the same as francophobic.

Oh no, not wanting to have a French accent is okay, but I've seen a few threads that were actually more than a bit offensive towards French people. I blame the de Launcets and the fact people don't get they're there for comic relief.

[Battlebloodmage]

I think for the setting, the war between mages and templars are more pertain to humans than to elven and dwarven. It would be more appropriate if the canon character is human.

[vortex216]

*WAAAAA WAAAAAAA WAAAAA*
I. Want. To. Be. An. Elf.
* WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
*sniffle*
I really want to be an elf. It's a major disappointment. One thing I was really looking forward to was playable races again. However, if the resources are going to be used in the best way they can be
(own castles), I can suck it up. I will still buy the game.

[Zkyire]

Yalision wrote...

 This was the second biggest disappointment I had with Dragon Age II. I cannot express my disappointment profoundly enough. Link here. The article is on Kotakus front page now. I can't post links at the moment on my tablet.

I have absolutely no problem with this.

I can understand why people might feel let down, but personally, I only ever play Human characters anyway so.. *shrug*

[Genshie]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

Lessons learned: None.

Good going Bioware!

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

You're well aware people want multiple races to choose from and are also well aware that a lot of people hated the decisions you guys made for DA2. A human-only protagonist was among them. You make the same choice again despite this knowledge. How can you expect consumers to remain confident in your product and your company when you continue to make design choices that are unpopular with the people that buy your games?

With this news, Origins automatically has something DA3 does not.

I will make this simple since alot of people seem to forget this constantly here as cold as it sounds: Its their product not yours. Just because fans don't like a certain feature doesn't  mean that they will be changing it or taking it out. Be glad though they already said that they are improving upon several customization options for the main protagonist that have been there or have been taken out from DA2. For all we know besides the race thing we may have even more options that DAO ever had.  

Then they shouldn't be surprised with the inevitable backlash and lackluster sales like they were with DA2. When you make bad game design choices that neglect your fanbase and what they ask for, it usually has negative consequences.

You know what the races were for in DA:Origins and Awakening? They were there to introduce the player to Dragon Age World and that is it. There is no reason and or need for the option to return. Would it be a nice feature, yes it would but its not needed. And I am pretty sure they were well aware of what would happen with a human only protagonist and the chances they were taking. You are acting like they are walking completely in the dark and unaware of what they were doing while designing DA2. They know the risks that they were taking then and are taking now. 

[Ser Bryant]

I like choosing my own race as well so that part is disappointing but i am excited by the backgrounds are returning . And I may have heard it wrong at the panel but I believe that Mike Laidlaw alluded to the race selection possibly returning in future dragon age games after 3 ( if there is any after 3) but the reasoning it was left out for 3 is that it didn't fit the story. I'm pretty sure it will return , it just has to fit the storyline. Which I am ok with.

[Dhiro]

Elfman wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Elfman wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

Now the next thing we will be waiting to hear is if our PC will have and be restricted to just a Orlesain accent.

I'd be totally okay with that.

Same, french accent is pretty.

I would prefer Cullen to be with a Ferelden guy. I just don't like to be Orlesian. Hopefully, there is an option for a Ferelden inquisitor, but based on the cost, it's probably one of the others, hopefully Ferelden. 

I'm willing to bet that accents were a factor in the (wrong, (sorry)), decision to make us humans, so either we'll all be Ferelden/Free Marchers or Orlesian. Probably not Orlesian though, there seems to be a lot of francophobes on these forums...

I don't hate French accent, I just don't like to have one. I love the French culture, so I'm actually enjoying being in Orleis. I don't think not wanting to have a particular accent is the same as francophobic.

Oh no, not wanting to have a French accent is okay, but I've seen a few threads that were actually more than a bit offensive towards French people. I blame the de Launcets and the fact people don't get they're there for comic relief.

The problem isn't not wanting french accent as much as "I don't want french accent because french people are disgusting and everybody from Orlais should have english accent now!". The former is an opinion I can respect, even though I personally would find it dull, the latter is stupid and sadly popular.

[syllogi]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

All four races?  Ooh.  I know it's not happening soon, but being able to play as qunari would be great.

And I really hope the backgrounds lead to interesting things, in terms of replayability, in DA3.  I'm in favor of anything that allows roleplaying significantly different characters from playthrough to playthrough, even if I'm limited to playing a human.

[Teddie Sage]

I'm honestly glad I'm going to play a human being again. I don't identify myself as a dwarf or an elf and I don't like to role play these races. Sucks for people who actually likes them.

[brushyourteeth]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Thanks for the reassurance, Ser.  Looking forward to the info to come!

[Hrungr]

David Gaider wrote...

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

Well, that is plain and simply awesome to hear.
(Well... so long as you don't think too hard on how long that's gonna take. )

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Genshie wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Uzzy wrote...

Lessons learned: None.

Good going Bioware!

What specific lesson were we supposed to have learned?

That people want multiple races for protagonist? That's something we're well aware of. 

The lesson of 'people want more choices in games!' is certainly a good lesson - on the flip side, of course, the lesson of 'resources are not unlimited and we can't please everyone without going completely over budget both in terms of money and time' is a valuable lesson to learn as well.

I'm not diminishing that, to some people, being able to play as a race other than human is a Big Deal. However, it wasn't an option that we felt fit our plans for DA3. Obviously, some people are going to be disappointed - that's unfortunate, but it's inevitable. If it means you aren't going to buy the game, that's certainly your prerogative and right as a consumer, and I encourage folks to vote with their wallet.

I can't really say it more clearly than that. It's unfortunate you're disappointed, but let's not label it as anything other than it is - a conscious decision where we felt the benefits of multiple races were outweighed by the drawbacks and costs (not only financial and time-wise, but in terms of quality bar for other parts of the game).

You're well aware people want multiple races to choose from and are also well aware that a lot of people hated the decisions you guys made for DA2. A human-only protagonist was among them. You make the same choice again despite this knowledge. How can you expect consumers to remain confident in your product and your company when you continue to make design choices that are unpopular with the people that buy your games?

With this news, Origins automatically has something DA3 does not.

I will make this simple since alot of people seem to forget this constantly here as cold as it sounds: Its their product not yours. Just because fans don't like a certain feature doesn't  mean that they will be changing it or taking it out. Be glad though they already said that they are improving upon several customization options for the main protagonist that have been there or have been taken out from DA2. For all we know besides the race thing we may have even more options that DAO ever had.  

Then they shouldn't be surprised with the inevitable backlash and lackluster sales like they were with DA2. When you make bad game design choices that neglect your fanbase and what they ask for, it usually has negative consequences.

You know what the races were for in DA:Origins and Awakening? They were there to introduce the player to Dragon Age World and that is it. There is no reason and or need for the option to return. Would it be a nice feature, yes it would but its not needed. And I am pretty sure they were well aware of what would happen with a human only protagonist and the chances they were taking. You are acting like they are walking completely in the dark and unaware of what they were doing while designing DA2. They know the risks that they were taking then and are taking now. 

I would like to think that they were. Knowingly making a mediocre game with so many bad design choices... implications... unpleasant.

[Potato Cat]

Hmmm...backgrounds with significant impact....hopefully there's plenty of choice here. For mages there's at least three possibilities: circle mage, average run-of-the-mill apostate and not-so-average Tevinter Magister. Though, last one would be weird if we are working for the Chantry in some way. And the lack of ability at the beginning of the game.

[Yalision]

David Gaider wrote...

Yalision wrote...
In any case... I am happy about the different backgrounds at least

We'll be discussing those more-- we'd prefer to talk about the things we do have rather than solely what we don't. At present, you guys really have no context what we mean by "backgrounds that affect your story" other than just that. It is part of customizing your character as well, of course.

Demand is there, people want this feature, will pay for it, will wait for it, and will lavish praise upon a studio that delivers it.

Yup, we're aware of that. Not every fantasy game has that, of course, but it's nice when it's available (and used appropriately as more than just an appearance variant, in my opinion). I think Mike said at the panel to not take this as an indication of where DA is headed in the future-- he said we intend to go return to "all four races as playable" in the future (his words). In the meantime, we want to increase customization and focus on what's important to DA3.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the work and time that goes into making such a massive collaboration that goes into making the Dragon Age franchise. Just forgive me for being cautious after the reused environments in DA2 and the effect the Mass Effect 3 endings had on fans like myself. It creates a very unsettling response to a band I still very much love and want to buy from. You whisper sweet nothing's into my ear, ask me to close my eyes, and I don't know if you're going to feed me chocolate or some bitter Orlesian "specialty". Sorry for any errors, I can't see what I'm typing.