313 réponses à ce sujet

[KristofCoulson]

It is bad enough that KotOR 3 is an mmo, and Command and Conquer Generals 2 is looking to be online too I think. I just want to play DA3 as a single player and not have to be online. (i live in the middle of nowhere and my internet connection is not terribly reliable.

[BouncyFrag]

Just keep it separate from the SP, but allow the option to play a variety of races/classes like ME3. ME3's MP has finally added a 'challenges' system to offer incentive to play the game rather than just grinding so you can unlock different weapons from the frustrating store. I'm actually looking forward to DA3 MP if they are going to implement it. I never expected to feel this way and hope it doesn't brand me as an apostate to be burned at the stake. Well, I can always turn to blood magic if I need to defend myself. What could go wrong? I'm sure the demon I deal with will be a good soul and won't corrupt me and cause death and despair......remembers Merrill.....um not so sure now.

Modifié par BouncyFrag, 25 octobre 2012 - 03:55 .

[Beerfish]

ME3 mp is a lot of fun and other than a few things has been well done and well maintained. They need to make them totally separate from the SP game of course but a model similar to ME3 mp should work well.

[MissA-Black]

The last two games have been good without it, so I don't think an MP is a must for every new game released. That said, if DA3 is to have MP, I do not want the MP to influence the SP game. The other way around, I have no problems with.

[the slynx]

I'll say this: I care about 'lore' in Dragon Age. It's been rendered a bit plastic with some of the ME3 MP inclusions, like Geth fighting in baffling areas, Volus front-line fighters, and so on. I really hope that lore will be treated more rigorously in MP if (when) it comes to Dragon Age.

Outside of that, I've really enjoyed ME3 MP and look forward to seeing what the developers come up with.

[Vortex13]

torudoom wrote...

I'll say this: I care about 'lore' in Dragon Age. It's been rendered a bit plastic with some of the ME3 MP inclusions, like Geth fighting in baffling areas, Volus front-line fighters, and so on. I really hope that lore will be treated more rigorously in MP if (when) it comes to Dragon Age.

Outside of that, I've really enjoyed ME3 MP and look forward to seeing what the developers come up with.

So would playable werewolves, and golems be acceptable then? 

I just wanted to ask from a lore based perspective, because to me Volus makes sense lore-wise. Fighting Geth in London is kinda rediculous I agree, but I can deal with it. Does make me wonder if we are going to have distinct factions to fight across the mp mode though. 

[Narosian]

 DA 3 should have no multiplayer at all.

[Vortex13]

Narosian wrote...

 DA 3 should have no multiplayer at all.

I disagree. More options for a player is always a good thing.

[CENIC]

I don't want DA3's multiplayer to be anything like ME3's. If I don't find it enjoyable, I don't want to have to do it to get a specific ending to the game.

[Amirit]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
This isn't helping.  You seem to be saying something completely different, which is along the lines that MP was only popular because it was required for the "best" ending and now that it's not, MP is less popular and that this is proof that the MP is not desirable?

I'd have to ask you how you determine whether or not the MP is popular at this point, though?

Never intercept some ones conversation - you will be hit from both sides

To answer your question: when ME3 was released you did not have to wait for a game. Now - not only you have to wait for a really long time but sometimes no one actually shows up at all. To me it says enough about popularity of MP. 

You can say it's simply because of the game age, but how many pure shooters loose their audience so quickly? 

And your original question was, if I am not mistaken, "do you really think that MP would be less popular should people be more satisfied with SP endings". Which I took as "endings you could only get with high enough level of EMS points" and answered - "yes, here is why". 

Did you mean "should people like SP more in general and not be forced to play MP out of boredom"? Or this interpretation is also wrong?

Modifié par Amirit, 25 octobre 2012 - 07:47 .

[DMan7733]

MP has to influence SP for the sake of it being an RPG, if it doesn't then why create another character if they give you an option, just allow you to pick a class-race combo, level some skills while playing a COD-esque multiplayer.

I don't want that, I want a MP game ground in the story of the game, like since we are unlikely to be in Kirkwall, the multiplayer could be set in-and-around kirkwall, there are shipping companies in kirkwall, so if for one weekend completing x amount of quests in the docks/warehouse areas, it would allow a non-OP weapon to be sent to your SP for reasons that make sense.

Add the ability to upgrade said item in multiplayer through divying a certain amount of experience to it and things become more powerful. There needs to be a balance for said power though, if you can't see the item and just a chest then it comes down to "How much time do you want to invest in an item you don't know that will be useful". RPG's have OP items spread about, it's just about when you find them. If I'm playing a mage and got a sword, I wouldn't enjoy it as much, but another character would get it.

The balance is still a problem, if I put sooo much experience into an item, I would want it to be powerful, but I don't want to overpower the game for the entirety of it. Say your SP was on mission two, the average power of mission two is 20damage (with enchantments). So your MP gives it experience which is likely to push it above that 20 mark even if it started out lower, depending on the item it would only have so much exp that can be put into it, maybe pushing it up to 30damage. It's useful, and powerful, but still within the grounds of what could be possible by mission two, by the time you reach mission 4 it will probably be obsolete.

If there is multiplayer in needs to be bound to the story, if I can "reap" the effects of multiplayer in single player something is wrong, if I can "taste" the effects of multiplayer in single player, it's good. Multiplayer shouldn't be a harvest, it should be that nice flower you spot when walking to work one day, deciding to pick it up you realise it was attached to a few thorns, but nothing that provided too much trouble... the flower will wilt and you will still remember that awesome sa-flower that was dea-nice.

[Malanek]

Amirit wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
This isn't helping.  You seem to be saying something completely different, which is along the lines that MP was only popular because it was required for the "best" ending and now that it's not, MP is less popular and that this is proof that the MP is not desirable?

I'd have to ask you how you determine whether or not the MP is popular at this point, though?

Never intercept some ones conversation - you will be hit from both sides

To answer your question: when ME3 was released you did not have to wait for a game. Now - not only you have to wait for a really long time but sometimes no one actually shows up at all. To me it says enough about popularity of MP. 

Out of curiosity how often do you play ME3 multiplayer? My account tells me I've put (somewhat embarrisngly) in just under 350 hours. I do not EVER have to wait more than 20 seconds to join a game or a lobby. The only times it gets long is when someone in a lobby doesn't ready up, and you can leave or kick.

The numbers playing ME3 multiplayer (there are hundreds of thousands of active players) and the amount of time those people spend playing has proved ME3 multiplayer to be a resounding success. I just don't understand where you are coming from with this comment.

Edit I'm not saying DA3 multiplayer will be as successful, it's a different style of game, one which doesn't naturally lend itself to multiplayer as well. But given how much ME3 exceeded my expectations in regard to multiplayer, I'm quite interested to see what they can come up with.

Modifié par Malanek999, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:24 .

[Genshie]

Malanek999 wrote...

Edit I'm not DA3 multiplayer will be as successful, it's a different style of game, one which doesn't lend itself to multiplayer as well. But given how much ME3 exceeded my expectations in regard to multiplayer, I'm quite interested to see what they can come up with.

Heck yes, I was one of the peeps that was fully against ME3 multiplayer when it was announced and when they finally revealed more info on it and then the demo my view did a complete 180. I am really interested in seeing how they will make this multiplayer dragon age themed.

[Allan Schumacher]

Amirit wrote...

To answer your question: when ME3 was released you did not have to wait for a game. Now - not only you have to wait for a really long time but sometimes no one actually shows up at all. To me it says enough about popularity of MP. 

You can say it's simply because of the game age, but how many pure shooters loose their audience so quickly? 

And your original question was, if I am not mistaken, "do you really think that MP would be less popular should people be more satisfied with SP endings". Which I took as "endings you could only get with high enough level of EMS points" and answered - "yes, here is why".

It's tough to disassociate the attrition with the simple fact that some people may have just moved on, however.  In order to get the "best" ending in Mass Effect 3, I only needed to do a handful of games worth of MP to make some rather huge gains on my galactic readiness.  This was in just a two man group to boot (a friend and I were just farting around with the game at one point as we were curious what the MP was like).

So is the MP less popular now because people no longer need to do it to get the best ending in SP, or is it less popular now simply because the game is older?  I stopped playing several months ago because while it was fun, it did get repetitive and other stuff came up and I didn't come back.


My original question is basically: "If the ending of ME3 was awesomesauce and didn't require any MP, would you expect the MP to be less popular than it is today?"

Granted, there probably have been some people that begrudgingly played
the MP since they heard it was necessary, and then ended up liking it. 
Though by the same token, how many people that raged on the game's
ending and sold their game in response may have given the MP a chance
had they still owned the game?  It's tough to factor in those numbers.  How many people refused to play it because they are mad at BioWare for how the game was treated?

My opinion is that any loss of popularity is probably more likely attributed to the fact that the game came out almost 8 months ago.

Many people feel that the game sold less copies in light of the ending backlash.  If this is true, they're also stating that there are less potential MP players than there could have been.  I'd be surprised if those potential lost sales would have a 0% attach rate.

[robertthebard]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Amirit wrote...

To answer your question: when ME3 was released you did not have to wait for a game. Now - not only you have to wait for a really long time but sometimes no one actually shows up at all. To me it says enough about popularity of MP. 

You can say it's simply because of the game age, but how many pure shooters loose their audience so quickly? 

And your original question was, if I am not mistaken, "do you really think that MP would be less popular should people be more satisfied with SP endings". Which I took as "endings you could only get with high enough level of EMS points" and answered - "yes, here is why".

It's tough to disassociate the attrition with the simple fact that some people may have just moved on, however.  In order to get the "best" ending in Mass Effect 3, I only needed to do a handful of games worth of MP to make some rather huge gains on my galactic readiness.  This was in just a two man group to boot (a friend and I were just farting around with the game at one point as we were curious what the MP was like).

So is the MP less popular now because people no longer need to do it to get the best ending in SP, or is it less popular now simply because the game is older?  I stopped playing several months ago because while it was fun, it did get repetitive and other stuff came up and I didn't come back.


My original question is basically: "If the ending of ME3 was awesomesauce and didn't require any MP, would you expect the MP to be less popular than it is today?"

Granted, there probably have been some people that begrudgingly played
the MP since they heard it was necessary, and then ended up liking it. 
Though by the same token, how many people that raged on the game's
ending and sold their game in response may have given the MP a chance
had they still owned the game?  It's tough to factor in those numbers.  How many people refused to play it because they are mad at BioWare for how the game was treated?

My opinion is that any loss of popularity is probably more likely attributed to the fact that the game came out almost 8 months ago.

Many people feel that the game sold less copies in light of the ending backlash.  If this is true, they're also stating that there are less potential MP players than there could have been.  I'd be surprised if those potential lost sales would have a 0% attach rate.

While it's essentially apples to oranges, if you look today, you can still find NWN's server up and running.  The numbers are likely drastically reduced, and as I said, it's more like apples to oranges, but a well done MP stays relevent, often long after the game becomes less relevent.  I played NWN's MP for 5 years and change, not to mention scripting(novice level), writing plots, area design, and eventually ran my own server for a few months as  a counterpoint to the High Magic Worlds I was a regular member of.  I could see MP like this being popular in this setting, if there's a toolset that doesn't require a college degree to run with.  Frankly, that's the way I would love to see MP attached to this game; completely seperate from the SP campaign.

[Allan Schumacher]

While it's essentially apples to oranges, if you look today, you can still find NWN's server up and running. The numbers are likely drastically reduced, and as I said, it's more like apples to oranges, but a well done MP stays relevent, often long after the game becomes less relevent

It is a bit apples to oranges because NWN also has the advantage of shipping with a pretty straight forward (and by this point well documented) toolset, to help maintain its relevancy, but you can find other games that still have some level of following simply because fans liked that version of the game, so you do have a point.


EDIT: Just to be clear, you do make comments about the toolset being a factor too, so it's not like I willfully misquoted you or something

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:54 .

[robertthebard]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

While it's essentially apples to oranges, if you look today, you can still find NWN's server up and running. The numbers are likely drastically reduced, and as I said, it's more like apples to oranges, but a well done MP stays relevent, often long after the game becomes less relevent

It is a bit apples to oranges because NWN also has the advantage of shipping with a pretty straight forward (and by this point well documented) toolset, to help maintain its relevancy, but you can find other games that still have some level of following simply because fans liked that version of the game, so you do have a point.


EDIT: Just to be clear, you do make comments about the toolset being a factor too, so it's not like I willfully misquoted you or something

Yeah, the toolset thing would be grand, and might even breathe even more life into the DA series, especially if, as with NWN's if you want to play, you have to own the game.  I wouldn't go retroactive or anything, but attaching it to DA 3, and letting it roll from there as was done with NWN's would work really well, I think.  There are, after all, some damn creative people in this community, and if they can get turned loose with a toolset, they make other people want to buy the game to play what they're doing.  I seriously know of at least 10 people that never finished any of the NWN's campaigns, but played MP every night, and all day on Saturday.

[WhiteThunder]

I hope it has just as much of a presence in the game and in the resources being used to make the game as it did in Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2.

EDIT:  Unless it's BG or NWN-style.

Modifié par WhiteThunder, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:09 .

[habitat 67]

The guys who render the multiplayer maps For Mass 3 do an incredible visual job fleshing out the universe and I am hoping for something similar.

[Fawx9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

While it's essentially apples to oranges, if you look today, you can still find NWN's server up and running. The numbers are likely drastically reduced, and as I said, it's more like apples to oranges, but a well done MP stays relevent, often long after the game becomes less relevent

It is a bit apples to oranges because NWN also has the advantage of shipping with a pretty straight forward (and by this point well documented) toolset, to help maintain its relevancy, but you can find other games that still have some level of following simply because fans liked that version of the game, so you do have a point.


EDIT: Just to be clear, you do make comments about the toolset being a factor too, so it's not like I willfully misquoted you or something

Please remind someone that can remind EA that they made/published BF:1942 which was moddable, which spawned some of the greatest mods of all time, such as Desert Combat, BF: Pirates, etc. Which not only added to the variety of the game but extended it life period greatly.

In other words, please try to push through a toolset. We will love you for it.

Continuing the ME3 example. Wouldn't it be cool if MP would have custom game mods that were legal? IE Husk mode, geth + cerb, new skins. All stuff that's doable, but locked down cause of 'reasons'.

One more thing.

I can go and play the SP campaign of BF 3 right now, and not have to worry about the campaign being affected by the MP. Yet ME3, a more SP focused game, released with MP being the only way to get a certain ending. That's just all kinds of messed up and backwords. AKA Don't do it again.

Modifié par Fawx9, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:21 .

[saintjimmy43]

I agree with the OP a little. When I was playing DA2 there were a ton of cool-looking items that were available for hundreds of sovereigns - if I bought every backpack pouch, armor upgrade, and a bunch of runes, I just wouldn't have the long-term saving capacity for these items, and that's not a fun game to play. The rune of fortune was pretty handy, but I think it'd be simpler if we could get some gold from our MP success deposited in some kind of house chest in SP.
It would have to be a miniscule amount, so as not to unbalance the game, but I don't think there's a huge argument against this.

[Warrior Craess]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I personally think MP is successful in spite of the SP campaign, much to the chagrin of those who care much more about the SP than the MP. It has become a crutch to those who feel like the SP can't give them anything anymore, whereas it wouldn't be otherwise.

I'm still a bit confused though.  Do you think that these people would not have played the multiplayer if they enjoyed the single player more?

As one of those who plays ME3 MP instead of SP.. yes I can honestly say that if the endings had been better, I would not have played so much MP. I love the ME universe but the only way I can play it with out getting annoyed at the ending is to play the MP portion, which doesn't actually have an ending (yet)....

[indyracing]

I'd prefer no multiplayer in DA3, but I'm assuming there's an EA mandate to include it, so I'd like it to:

1 - have ZERO impact on the single player campaign (IE, no war asset BS)

2 - be fun (ME3's largely was, but did get old rather quickly, IMO)

3 - probably not possible, but I'd actually prefer a co-op type of multiplayer - where people can drop into your game (assuming you allow it) and you can do whatever quests together (taking the place of a party member).

What I'm picturing as the likely MP for DA3, however, is something like what's in MMO's, ala WoW, with the 5 man instances and trash mobs/bosses at the end.  It's about as shooter-esque as I can see the gameplay going, and it's all player vs mobs.  Almost like running a dungeon in an MMO.  And not something that sounds terribly interesting.

[indyracing]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The huge success is contributed by the SP campaign being an utter failure for a lot of people. The only way they can hold onto their beloved Mass Effect, *without* becoming emotionally invested.. Is too play the MP.. Or go on BSN.

Are you implying that Mass Effect's multiplayer would be less successful if the endings and single player campaign in general were better received?

I can look at this in 2 ways.

1 - The MP in ME3 is largely fun, but for myself I tired of it quickly (especially once the full impact of the RNG loot system dawned on me).

 2 - My SP playthrough completion was delayed by a few weeks because I was having fun in MP (and I'll be honest, I only tried MP because I felt forced to by the War Assets - that's not a good decision).

3 - Once I finally completed the SP, I simply removed the disc from my Xbox, I was so disgusted.   A couple weeks later I tried to play more MP (remembering how it was fun), but that lasted only about 2 days before, well, I removed the disc again, never to touch it again.

To answer your question - I would have played more ME 3 MP, overall, if I wasn't so annoyed with the SP ending.  It may have taken a while, because I would have repalyed the SP at least one more time, probably 2 or 3 more times, but the point is the disc would have still been in my system, or at least an option.  Within a week of finishing the SP story, the idea of donig anything ME related was simply not an option, and that has not (and won't) change.

I can see the point, though, that many people who WANTED to play some ME, but were annoyed with the SP story ending, chose to keep playing ME 3 multiplayer to get their "ME fix".  It is reasonably fun for a tacked on and forced MP addition to a single player universe.

Overall, the bad story endings in the single player game in no way helped the ME universe in any way, though.