637 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

draken-heart wrote...

What about the quiet majority (the ones who are fans of Biowar, but do not post on these threads)? Don't they have a say in what bioware does? just because you and a few others belive this does not mean that those who do not post on these forums agree.

Bioware has more fans than the ones on these forums to think about.

Okay, who cares? You don't know what the silent majority wants, why are you trying to speak for them? Unless you have some random sampling to pull out, they're not a relevant point of discussion.

It's a discussion board, not a "Bioware must implement every idea I have" board.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:37 .

[JuGonzo]

Don't worry, I'll abandon it...

... the whole Dragon Age:3 game.

[draken-heart]

Il Divo wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

What about the quiet majority (the ones who are fans of Biowar, but do not post on these threads)? Don't they have a say in what bioware does? just because you and a few others belive this does not mean that those who do not post on these forums agree.

Bioware has more fans than the ones on these forums to think about.

Okay, who cares? You don't know what the silent majority wants, why are you trying to speak for them? Unless you have some random sampling to pull out, they're not a relevant point of discussion.

It's a discussion board, not a "Bioware must implement every idea I have" board.

Still, I consider these threads pointless because it sounds like they are trying to get Bioware to remove a key feature in it's franchise. Plus Bioware may have did imports the way they did, and likely lied about how much they would matter to get people into the game. Ignoring the import for anything other than shoringup world consistency makes things smoother.

If they wanted to make each DA game a stand-alone game, they would have with DA2, they didn't, therefore itis clear they want choices in each game to have some effect on the next.

/thread

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 octobre 2012 - 12:54 .

[Twisted Path]

I'd be all for dropping the save import, or just limiting it to something like Knights of the Old Republic 2 where a couple of broad things are established from the first game and everything else is left vague. In KotOR 2 it was whether Darth Revan was a man or woman and whether she/he took the darkside or lightside path. (And yes I know KotOR 2 didn't have an import per say, you just established the cannon for the first game in an early conversation in game.)

In this case it could be the origin/sex of the Warden was, whether the warden died, whether Morrigan had her sequel-hook-god-baby and who the king/queen of Fereldan is. Um...and what gender Hawke was. You could ignore the rest of Dragon Age 2 because no significant world altering choices are made in that game.

It was really obvious that Origins was not made with the save import thing in mind and that the Dragon Age 2 writers felt hamstrung by the possible choices people could have made in the first game. For instance in Origins you can kill just about anyone at some point in the game and you determine who rules Ferelden, etc. Then the save import happened in DA2 and it just led to a bunch of silly cameos, callbacks and retcons that I could have done without.

The next game should just mention past events in really broad strokes and then move on from there. This could be done without a save import, or by just importing a few really broad elements.

[draken-heart]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'd be all for dropping the save import, or just limiting it to something like Knights of the Old Republic 2 where a couple of broad things are established from the first game and everything else is left vague. In KotOR 2 it was whether Darth Revan was a man or woman and whether she/he took the darkside or lightside path. (And yes I know KotOR 2 didn't have an import per say, you just established the cannon for the first game in an early conversation in game.)

In this case it could be the origin/sex of the Warden was, whether the warden died, whether Morrigan had her sequel-hook-god-baby and who the king/queen of Fereldan is. Um...and what gender Hawke was. You could ignore the rest of Dragon Age 2 because no significant world altering choices are made in that game.

It was really obvious that Origins was not made with the save import thing in mind and that the Dragon Age 2 writers felt hamstrung by the possible choices people could have made in the first game. For instance in Origins you can kill just about anyone at some point in the game and you determine who rules Ferelden, etc. Then the save import happened in DA2 and it just led to a bunch of silly cameos, callbacks and retcons that I could have done without.

The next game should just mention past events in really broad strokes and then move on from there. This could be done without a save import, or by just importing a few really broad elements.

I could live with that, as long as it is does not get into any mention of romance (Not even no romance, like Have Leliana mention that she misses the warden, and people can believe that they haven't seen each other is so long that the romance technically ended) same with Hawke, only have them and LI Break up off-screen and have the LIs say they miss having Hawke around, works for both sides.

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[DreamwareStudio]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'd be all for dropping the save import, or just limiting it to something like Knights of the Old Republic 2 where a couple of broad things are established from the first game and everything else is left vague. In KotOR 2 it was whether Darth Revan was a man or woman and whether she/he took the darkside or lightside path. (And yes I know KotOR 2 didn't have an import per say, you just established the cannon for the first game in an early conversation in game.)

In this case it could be the origin/sex of the Warden was, whether the warden died, whether Morrigan had her sequel-hook-god-baby and who the king/queen of Fereldan is. Um...and what gender Hawke was. You could ignore the rest of Dragon Age 2 because no significant world altering choices are made in that game.

It was really obvious that Origins was not made with the save import thing in mind and that the Dragon Age 2 writers felt hamstrung by the possible choices people could have made in the first game. For instance in Origins you can kill just about anyone at some point in the game and you determine who rules Ferelden, etc. Then the save import happened in DA2 and it just led to a bunch of silly cameos, callbacks and retcons that I could have done without.

The next game should just mention past events in really broad strokes and then move on from there. This could be done without a save import, or by just importing a few really broad elements.

See, I think this is where EA/Bioware has gotten into trouble. Everything seems to happen on an almost global level. Why not write stories and develop games that do not effect the entire world, especially since each story is pretty much a stand-alone? Get away from global events and you get away from the need to do imports at all. Besides, unless they're doing a sequel, there's no real requirement for an import. If past events need to come up, like you said, really broad strokes.

If I ever do buy DA 3 and should I see another retcon...

The fricking DVD is going in the trash. That in itself would be a sequel seeing as how DA 2 ended up there.

Modifié par google_calasade, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .

[NedPepper]

wright1978 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...


And then you have the books written by Gaider.  Canon or not?  Well, I hope so, because otherwise....why did I waste my time reading them?  Are Maric's stories canon?  Is Alistar half elf?  Does Fiona exist?  Does Cole exist?  Was Wynne's REAL death in Asunder?  It was incredibly moving.  Did she die there or she did die when you wanted to side with the Templars in Origins on one of your playthroughs?  Does her son, Rhys, exist as a mage in Orlais?  None of this stuff can be followed up on because the save import, which is basically creates a fractured universe with a thousand alternate universes, and can't realistically be held in any kind of order from one person's playthrough to another.  

By that logic if they removed the import you would see no point in playing the game?

As far as i'm concerned they are an alternative universe, a diversion where people can enjoy looking in on how Gaider's own personal canon plays out. The characters most certainly exist but the events will not necessarily have panned out identically based on people's own canon universes. In mine Alistair is dead and i certainly don't want the game universe suddenly ignoring that fact. As a Wynne's concerned she's either dead before or in Asunder and won't appear again.

I may get flamed for this, but David Gaider created these characters.  It really is HIS story.  It's Bioware's.  They allow me to roleplay a character within a game and a universe they created.  But the story and the characters don't just come up out of thin air.  They were written.  There's a narrative.  There's continuity, but it has to be FLUID.  You can't have a million different versions of Thedas and expect to keep making sequels reflecting every little thing you do.  Eventually, the story will just topple over on itself if some things are not canonized. The save import is an illusion.  But it's not even an effective illusion.

[draken-heart]

nedpepper wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...


And then you have the books written by Gaider.  Canon or not?  Well, I hope so, because otherwise....why did I waste my time reading them?  Are Maric's stories canon?  Is Alistar half elf?  Does Fiona exist?  Does Cole exist?  Was Wynne's REAL death in Asunder?  It was incredibly moving.  Did she die there or she did die when you wanted to side with the Templars in Origins on one of your playthroughs?  Does her son, Rhys, exist as a mage in Orlais?  None of this stuff can be followed up on because the save import, which is basically creates a fractured universe with a thousand alternate universes, and can't realistically be held in any kind of order from one person's playthrough to another.  

By that logic if they removed the import you would see no point in playing the game?

As far as i'm concerned they are an alternative universe, a diversion where people can enjoy looking in on how Gaider's own personal canon plays out. The characters most certainly exist but the events will not necessarily have panned out identically based on people's own canon universes. In mine Alistair is dead and i certainly don't want the game universe suddenly ignoring that fact. As a Wynne's concerned she's either dead before or in Asunder and won't appear again.

I may get flamed for this, but David Gaider created these characters.  It really is HIS story.  It's Bioware's.  They allow me to roleplay a character within a game and a universe they created.  But the story and the characters don't just come up out of thin air.  They were written.  There's a narrative.  There's continuity, but it has to be FLUID.  You can't have a million different versions of Thedas and expect to keep making sequels reflecting every little thing you do.  Eventually, the story will just topple over on itself if some things are not canonized. The save import is an illusion.  But it's not even an effective illusion.

they could do something like Twizted said, KotoR2 way of "Importing" early dialogue of what happened with two choices. Two sets of canon and people get to create the world's events, compromise.

I thoroughly enjoyed KotoR 2 because I still had choice, both for the game itself and for the story, and that did not have an import. Though it was a different company.

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 octobre 2012 - 01:40 .

[Realmzmaster]

The save import system consumes resources. Take for example the appearance of Alistair. Three different scenarios had to be written (king, warden and drunk) depending on the import. If canon was set there would be only one and the resources could be used in other places in the game.
The retcon with Leliana did not have to happen (other than fan service). Sister Nightingale could have been any other seeker. No mention of love interest needed to happen.

Nothing in DAO needed to be reflected in DA2. Did not have to mention Queen Anora or King Alistair could have easily said the king or queen of Ferelden. No one cared in Kirkwall who the warden romanaced. Why would Hawke care? What difference did it make in Kirkwall who was king of Orzammar?
The three histories at the beginning covered most of the major points. There was no real reason for an import.
What about the OGB? If it were to appear in DA3 it would be relegated to a guest appearance because every import does not have an OGB unless Bioware makes it canon or sets up a history for it in DA3.

I am far more interested in in-game choices and consequences than choices that carry over because it will eventually if not already limit the story.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The save import system consumes resources. Take for example the appearance of Alistair. Three different scenarios had to be written (king, warden and drunk) depending on the import. If canon was set there would be only one and the resources could be used in other places in the game.
The retcon with Leliana did not have to happen (other than fan service). Sister Nightingale could have been any other seeker. No mention of love interest needed to happen.

Nothing in DAO needed to be reflected in DA2. Did not have to mention Queen Anora or King Alistair could have easily said the king or queen of Ferelden. No one cared in Kirkwall who the warden romanaced. Why would Hawke care? What difference did it make in Kirkwall who was king of Orzammar?
The three histories at the beginning covered most of the major points. There was no real reason for an import.
What about the OGB? If it were to appear in DA3 it would be relegated to a guest appearance because every import does not have an OGB unless Bioware makes it canon or sets up a history for it in DA3.

I am far more interested in in-game choices and consequences than choices that carry over because it will eventually if not already limit the story.

What if you had the ability to choose your canon, ala Kotor 2 or Genesis comic? would you be ok with that?

For me it would be somewhat ok, because I still have somewhat of a sense of contro over what happens in the gam world's history. Force a specific set of canon choice onto me, I will probably never get into the game and never finish it, instead youtube everything.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The save import system consumes resources. Take for example the appearance of Alistair. Three different scenarios had to be written (king, warden and drunk) depending on the import. If canon was set there would be only one and the resources could be used in other places in the game.
The retcon with Leliana did not have to happen (other than fan service). Sister Nightingale could have been any other seeker. No mention of love interest needed to happen.

Nothing in DAO needed to be reflected in DA2. Did not have to mention Queen Anora or King Alistair could have easily said the king or queen of Ferelden. No one cared in Kirkwall who the warden romanaced. Why would Hawke care? What difference did it make in Kirkwall who was king of Orzammar?
The three histories at the beginning covered most of the major points. There was no real reason for an import.
What about the OGB? If it were to appear in DA3 it would be relegated to a guest appearance because every import does not have an OGB unless Bioware makes it canon or sets up a history for it in DA3.

I am far more interested in in-game choices and consequences than choices that carry over because it will eventually if not already limit the story.

What if you had the ability to choose your canon, ala Kotor 2 or Genesis comic? would you be ok with that?

For me it would be somewhat ok, because I still have somewhat of a sense of contro over what happens in the gam world's history. Force a specific set of canon choice onto me, I will probably never get into the game and never finish it, instead youtube everything.

What you are suggesting is still resource intensive. Tthe developers would have to  limit what can be done and selected within the comic. (Which will probably still upset many gamers). That makes it almost no different from the pre-set histories of DA2. Bioware is going to end up painting themselves into story corners and eventually will have to set canon.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:12 .

[TheRealJayDee]

The import feature was one of the things that got me the most excited about the DA and ME franchises. After experiencing it with DA:O->DA2 and ME->ME2->ME3 I can say that I still very much love the concept behind it, but have been shown by Bioware that it can't or won't be used in a way that makes up for what each individual games loses by it.
 
It breaks my heart, but unless the folks at Bioware drastically change their policy about not making larger amounts of unique content based on the decisions imported there really is little point in having them at all.

Emzamination wrote...

I don't believe that these anti-import people's arguments are entirely altruistic. I suspect it may have something to do with a lack of expansions or Dl.c, since upon thread review, most of those championing this campaign are lacking either registration badges or completed characters.

Not sure I can follow you there. What exactly do you suspect the people without game registrations hope to achieve with their well thought out arguments against the import feature?

[Sharn01]

When you start a game in DA3, allow player's to select the choices from previous games that will appear in the new one, this will solve a lot of problem's.

It allows player's to keep their previous choices if they lost their saved games or got the game on a different system then the previous one.

It allows new player's who have not played the previous games to have input on the storyline.

It allows Bioware to not have to deal with buggy import files.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The save import system consumes resources. Take for example the appearance of Alistair. Three different scenarios had to be written (king, warden and drunk) depending on the import. If canon was set there would be only one and the resources could be used in other places in the game.
The retcon with Leliana did not have to happen (other than fan service). Sister Nightingale could have been any other seeker. No mention of love interest needed to happen.

Nothing in DAO needed to be reflected in DA2. Did not have to mention Queen Anora or King Alistair could have easily said the king or queen of Ferelden. No one cared in Kirkwall who the warden romanaced. Why would Hawke care? What difference did it make in Kirkwall who was king of Orzammar?
The three histories at the beginning covered most of the major points. There was no real reason for an import.
What about the OGB? If it were to appear in DA3 it would be relegated to a guest appearance because every import does not have an OGB unless Bioware makes it canon or sets up a history for it in DA3.

I am far more interested in in-game choices and consequences than choices that carry over because it will eventually if not already limit the story.

What if you had the ability to choose your canon, ala Kotor 2 or Genesis comic? would you be ok with that?

For me it would be somewhat ok, because I still have somewhat of a sense of contro over what happens in the gam world's history. Force a specific set of canon choice onto me, I will probably never get into the game and never finish it, instead youtube everything.

What you are suggesting is still resource intensive. Tthe developers would have to  limit what can be done and selected within the comic. (Which will probably still upset many gamers). That makes it almost no different from the pre-set histories of DA2. Bioware is going to end up painting themselves into story corners and eventually will have to set canon.

People will complain anyways, even if the canon Bioware sets means nothing to the game by their word. People will find things to complain about, look at ME3. they found the endings to be horribl eand complained. Same with DA2, people found things to complain about and none of it was, to my knowledge, about how importing a save ruined it.

[wsandista]

Please just drop the import. I would rather play an amazing individual game that can end in a variety of different ways and responds to all choices than one that limits choice just to have a reference to a choice made by a PC in a previous game.

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

Please just drop the import. I would rather play an amazing individual game that can end in a variety of different ways and responds to all choices than one that limits choice just to have a reference to a choice made by a PC in a previous game.

I said it once, I will say it again, this thread sounds like it is trying to convince Bioware to remve a feature they deemed necessary to the franchise. Let them think and decide for themselves. And dont try to make people see your way and then blow off their beliefs with the phrase "It constrics the writers to account for every choice and the game could be better without it." Sure it could, but ME3 and DA were in my mind Great games, not because of the import, though it was a good touch, but because I enjoyed the story the games had (ME3 had the Reaper war, and DA2 was Hawke's rise to power in Kirkwall).

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:30 .

[NedPepper]

draken-heart wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...


And then you have the books written by Gaider.  Canon or not?  Well, I hope so, because otherwise....why did I waste my time reading them?  Are Maric's stories canon?  Is Alistar half elf?  Does Fiona exist?  Does Cole exist?  Was Wynne's REAL death in Asunder?  It was incredibly moving.  Did she die there or she did die when you wanted to side with the Templars in Origins on one of your playthroughs?  Does her son, Rhys, exist as a mage in Orlais?  None of this stuff can be followed up on because the save import, which is basically creates a fractured universe with a thousand alternate universes, and can't realistically be held in any kind of order from one person's playthrough to another.  

By that logic if they removed the import you would see no point in playing the game?

As far as i'm concerned they are an alternative universe, a diversion where people can enjoy looking in on how Gaider's own personal canon plays out. The characters most certainly exist but the events will not necessarily have panned out identically based on people's own canon universes. In mine Alistair is dead and i certainly don't want the game universe suddenly ignoring that fact. As a Wynne's concerned she's either dead before or in Asunder and won't appear again.

I may get flamed for this, but David Gaider created these characters.  It really is HIS story.  It's Bioware's.  They allow me to roleplay a character within a game and a universe they created.  But the story and the characters don't just come up out of thin air.  They were written.  There's a narrative.  There's continuity, but it has to be FLUID.  You can't have a million different versions of Thedas and expect to keep making sequels reflecting every little thing you do.  Eventually, the story will just topple over on itself if some things are not canonized. The save import is an illusion.  But it's not even an effective illusion.

they could do something like Twizted said, KotoR2 way of "Importing" early dialogue of what happened with two choices. Two sets of canon and people get to create the world's events, compromise.

I thoroughly enjoyed KotoR 2 because I still had choice, both for the game itself and for the story, and that did not have an import. Though it was a different company.

I feel like you're missing the bigger point here.  Every game should have big choices that mean something.  Divergent paths.  Interesting twists. 

BUT, it should be just for the game itself.   Afterwards, with the import, all those important decisions, are made IRRELEVANT.  Because you end up with a fractured universe, and development either trying to import it all in a senseable fashion, or IGNORING IT COMPLETELY.  The Anvil.  The Urn.  Alistar shows up in meaningless cameo to make a swooping joke.  As a fan of the game, I WANT TO SEE ALISTAR.  I want to see Sten again.  But if they're dead on half of the people's playthroughs, they no longer having any importance in this series.  They can't.  It's not affordable.

Look at how people react to Leliana and Anders being alive.  Their choices were "violated." 

So now, anything that has import on it either has to be retconned in story in a hamfisted way, or ignored.

What ends up happening is they STOP GIVING YOU CHOICES.  There is on ZERO difference in the end of Dragon Age 2.  Why?  Because they didn't want the import messing up the narrative.  Regardless of who Hawke sided with, the end result was the same.

Eventually, it causes railroading into a very linear story where only minor things can have importance to be imported over.

It's not cost efficient.  It doesn't really work, as evidenced by multiple people here.  And it creates a mess of continuity.

Gaider himself said on this very forum that he regretted the Old God Baby decision.  Why?  Because they can't do anything with it.  Because not everyone made the choice.  So, now he has to figure out how such a huge plot point can be acknowledged going forward, or just ignoring it as if it never happened.  And that's a shame.  Because Morrigan and her baby had a TON of potential.  See what I'm saying?

Could they do an interactive comic?  I guess.  But people are still choosing one or the other, and anytime you have the chance of a 50/50 split, how much does the writer put into a story that only half the people will ever experience?

The solution:  Create lots of choices in the game and have them actually mean something.  Moving forward, pick a canon and go from there Baldur's Gate style.  Imagine if the import had been in Baldur's Gate 2.  No Minsc.  One of the most popular characters in Bioware's history.

Why should I never get to see Sten, or Oghren, or Merrill, or Alistar again in any important context because some guy somewhere on one playthough killed them?  It's becomes inherently selfish and short sighted.

I, like everyone else, wanted to like the import.   But the logistics didn't work.  Not in Mass Effect where it was actually IMPORTANT.  So why do we need it  in Dragon Age?

Unless Hawke or the Warden show up again in any meaningful way, it's just a wink-wink.  A very expensive, limiting wink of the eye.  It's a bad pigeon joke by a bartender in the Hangman.  That's it.  Is it really worth saving?

[TheRealJayDee]

I think I remember not agreeing with you on DA related things in the past, nedpepper, but on this I'm with you 100%. Great and relevant posts in this thread!

[draken-heart]

nedpepper wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...


And then you have the books written by Gaider.  Canon or not?  Well, I hope so, because otherwise....why did I waste my time reading them?  Are Maric's stories canon?  Is Alistar half elf?  Does Fiona exist?  Does Cole exist?  Was Wynne's REAL death in Asunder?  It was incredibly moving.  Did she die there or she did die when you wanted to side with the Templars in Origins on one of your playthroughs?  Does her son, Rhys, exist as a mage in Orlais?  None of this stuff can be followed up on because the save import, which is basically creates a fractured universe with a thousand alternate universes, and can't realistically be held in any kind of order from one person's playthrough to another.  

By that logic if they removed the import you would see no point in playing the game?

As far as i'm concerned they are an alternative universe, a diversion where people can enjoy looking in on how Gaider's own personal canon plays out. The characters most certainly exist but the events will not necessarily have panned out identically based on people's own canon universes. In mine Alistair is dead and i certainly don't want the game universe suddenly ignoring that fact. As a Wynne's concerned she's either dead before or in Asunder and won't appear again.

I may get flamed for this, but David Gaider created these characters.  It really is HIS story.  It's Bioware's.  They allow me to roleplay a character within a game and a universe they created.  But the story and the characters don't just come up out of thin air.  They were written.  There's a narrative.  There's continuity, but it has to be FLUID.  You can't have a million different versions of Thedas and expect to keep making sequels reflecting every little thing you do.  Eventually, the story will just topple over on itself if some things are not canonized. The save import is an illusion.  But it's not even an effective illusion.

they could do something like Twizted said, KotoR2 way of "Importing" early dialogue of what happened with two choices. Two sets of canon and people get to create the world's events, compromise.

I thoroughly enjoyed KotoR 2 because I still had choice, both for the game itself and for the story, and that did not have an import. Though it was a different company.

I feel like you're missing the bigger point here.  Every game should have big choices that mean something.  Divergent paths.  Interesting twists. 

BUT, it should be just for the game itself.   Afterwards, with the import, all those important decisions, are made IRRELEVANT.  Because you end up with a fractured universe, and development either trying to import it all in a senseable fashion, or IGNORING IT COMPLETELY.  The Anvil.  The Urn.  Alistar shows up in meaningless cameo to make a swooping joke.  As a fan of the game, I WANT TO SEE ALISTAR.  I want to see Sten again.  But if they're dead on half of the people's playthroughs, they no longer having any importance in this series.  They can't.  It's not affordable.

Look at how people react to Leliana and Anders being alive.  Their choices were "violated." 

So now, anything that has import on it either has to be retconned in story in a hamfisted way, or ignored.

What ends up happening is they STOP GIVING YOU CHOICES.  There is on ZERO difference in the end of Dragon Age 2.  Why?  Because they didn't want the import messing up the narrative.  Regardless of who Hawke sided with, the end result was the same.

Eventually, it causes railroading into a very linear story where only minor things can have importance to be imported over.

It's not cost efficient.  It doesn't really work, as evidenced by multiple people here.  And it creates a mess of continuity.

Gaider himself said on this very forum that he regretted the Old God Baby decision.  Why?  Because they can't do anything with it.  Because not everyone made the choice.  So, now he has to figure out how such a huge plot point can be acknowledged going forward, or just ignoring it as if it never happened.  And that's a shame.  Because Morrigan and her baby had a TON of potential.  See what I'm saying?

Could they do an interactive comic?  I guess.  But people are still choosing one or the other, and anytime you have the chance of a 50/50 split, how much does the writer put into a story that only half the people will ever experience?

The solution:  Create lots of choices in the game and have them actually mean something.  Moving forward, pick a canon and go from there Baldur's Gate style.  Imagine if the import had been in Baldur's Gate 2.  No Minsc.  One of the most popular characters in Bioware's history.

Why should I never get to see Sten, or Oghren, or Merrill, or Alistar again in any important context because some guy somewhere on one playthough killed them?  It's becomes inherently selfish and short sighted.

I, like everyone else, wanted to like the import.   But the logistics didn't work.  Not in Mass Effect where it was actually IMPORTANT.  So why do we need it  in Dragon Age?

Unless Hawke or the Warden show up again in any meaningful way, it's just a wink-wink.  A very expensive, limiting wink of the eye.  It's a bad pigeon joke by a bartender in the Hangman.  That's it.  Is it really worth saving?

Is DA itself worth saving at this point? I doubt it, peopel will still remember the horror that they consider DA2, which was rushed.

If they actually admitted they made a mistake and that save imports were the reason DA2's story was so terrible, then I would agree with most of you. But i do not really see them outright saying that as the save file transfer system is established as part of the series.

Modifié par draken-heart, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:43 .

[LinksOcarina]

Il Divo wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

What about the quiet majority (the ones who are fans of Biowar, but do not post on these threads)? Don't they have a say in what bioware does? just because you and a few others belive this does not mean that those who do not post on these forums agree.

Bioware has more fans than the ones on these forums to think about.

Okay, who cares? You don't know what the silent majority wants, why are you trying to speak for them? Unless you have some random sampling to pull out, they're not a relevant point of discussion.

It's a discussion board, not a "Bioware must implement every idea I have" board.

Usually the rule is 80%:20% or the Pareto principle, that tends to govern these things. So in this case, 80% of the complaints on these forums come from 20% of the major userbase. 

Which seems to be slightly accurate, sometimes. So the silent majority does kind of have a say in their silent approval in the end. Saying nothing is basically saying, good job or bad job, in the end the sales will govern what happens, not the cries of fans who normally have no say in making a game.

As to the topic here, losing the save import loses any interest in Dragon Age, in fact, the reason to keep playing is because of that import, it allows multiple storylines to progress through via the choices made. So it should be kept, because it makes the world of Thedas more alive in the long run.

Of course, that means we have to think fourth dimensionally, and realize choices made in game one should affect game four somehow. As long as BioWare is doing that I see no problem here. 

[saintjimmy43]

No......just......no.......

[wsandista]

draken-heart wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Please just drop the import. I would rather play an amazing individual game that can end in a variety of different ways and responds to all choices than one that limits choice just to have a reference to a choice made by a PC in a previous game.

I said it once, I will say it again, this thread sounds like it is trying to convince Bioware to remve a feature they deemed necessary to the franchise. Let them think and decide for themselves. And dont try to make people see your way and then blow off their beliefs with the phrase "It constrics the writers to account for every choice and the game could be better without it." Sure it could, but ME3 and DA were in my mind Great games, not because of the import, though it was a good touch, but because I enjoyed the story the games had (ME3 had the Reaper war, and DA2 was Hawke's rise to power in Kirkwall).

ME3 didn't need choices from previous games, because all they really amounted to is 1) Which VS is alive and who is alive from ME2 and 2)several Cameos and variations of (whatever they called the resources)

DA2 handwaived away several choices as well, not to mention some of the boons.

If Bioware can't do imports well, then they shouldn't do them. Having a small reference to a choice made in a previous game is not as important as giving the player plenty of choices with consequence.

[marshalleck]

draken-heart wrote...
Is DA itself worth saving at this point? I doubt it, peopel will still remember the horror that they consider DA2, which was rushed.

If they actually admitted they made a mistake and that save imports were the reason DA2's story was so terrible, then I would agree with most of you. But i do not really see them outright saying that as the save file transfer system is established as part of the series.

Yes, Dragon Age is salvageable by phasing out save game imports and placing renewed emphasis on choices within each title. Your post is the intellectually lazy option: "I don't want to admit that nedpepper is right, so I'll suggest throwing everything away!"

Modifié par marshalleck, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:47 .

[draken-heart]

wsandista wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Please just drop the import. I would rather play an amazing individual game that can end in a variety of different ways and responds to all choices than one that limits choice just to have a reference to a choice made by a PC in a previous game.

I said it once, I will say it again, this thread sounds like it is trying to convince Bioware to remve a feature they deemed necessary to the franchise. Let them think and decide for themselves. And dont try to make people see your way and then blow off their beliefs with the phrase "It constrics the writers to account for every choice and the game could be better without it." Sure it could, but ME3 and DA were in my mind Great games, not because of the import, though it was a good touch, but because I enjoyed the story the games had (ME3 had the Reaper war, and DA2 was Hawke's rise to power in Kirkwall).

ME3 didn't need choices from previous games, because all they really amounted to is 1) Which VS is alive and who is alive from ME2 and 2)several Cameos and variations of (whatever they called the resources)

DA2 handwaived away several choices as well, not to mention some of the boons.

If Bioware can't do imports well, then they shouldn't do them. Having a small reference to a choice made in a previous game is not as important as giving the player plenty of choices with consequence.

I will use NV, Did it's choices have any impact on the game itself? not really. If choices do not matter till endgame, then why have choices anywhere but endgame?

[NedPepper]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I think I remember not agreeing with you on DA related things in the past, nedpepper, but on this I'm with you 100%. Great and relevant posts in this thread!

Appreicate it.  Every now and again, I try to make some sense.

Modifié par nedpepper, 26 octobre 2012 - 02:48 .