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[draken-heart]

Plus with Anders they could set the canon that he got dragged back into the wardens.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Plus with Anders they could set the canon that he got dragged back into the wardens.

Then you agree that some canon must be set. But gamers will disagree that the canon should be that Andders got dragged back to the wardens considering he is an abomination with the power to lay waste to the order.

The problem is that everyone does not agree with what can be canon. Bioware has to set the canon. As I stated some players did the DR and got an OGB others did not. If Bioware does not set a canon for that choice it is a story that can never be told and have any major impact on the game or series.

Why would the Inquistor care about the warden who may be dead or Hawke who does not want to be found? Hawke is at least easier to incorporate into the game because he is not dead at the end of DA2. The warden could be dead at the end of DAO.

So if the warden is included in DA3 or subsequent games then the warden's death gets handwaved (retconned) like in Awakening or can never be more than a codex entry saying the warden died killing the ArchDemon.

Bioware already created an outcry when they retconned (essentially setting canon)  Leliana and handwaved her death in the Exiled Prince DLC.
Gamers felt the choice they made in DAO did not matter. This is why in my opinion the save import system is not a good design choice. If you have the same characters from game to game it would make sense but that is not the case because each game will have a new protagonist. The choices the previous character made would have little impact on the new protagonist.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Plus with Anders they could set the canon that he got dragged back into the wardens.

Then you agree that some canon must be set. But gamers will disagree that the canon should be that Andders got dragged back to the wardens considering he is an abomination with the power to lay waste to the order.

The problem is that everyone does not agree with what can be canon. Bioware has to set the canon. As I stated some players did the DR and got an OGB others did not. If Bioware does not set a canon for that choice it is a story that can never be told and have any major impact on the game or series.

Why would the Inquistor care about the warden who may be dead or Hawke who does not want to be found? Hawke is at least easier to incorporate into the game because he is not dead at the end of DA2. The warden could be dead at the end of DAO.

So if the warden is included in DA3 or subsequent games then the warden's death gets handwaved (retconned) like in Awakening or can never be more than a codex entry saying the warden died killing the ArchDemon.

Bioware already created an outcry when they retconned (essentially setting canon)  Leliana and handwaved her death in the Exiled Prince DLC.
Gamers felt the choice they made in DAO did not matter. This is why in my opinion the save import system is not a good design choice. If you have the same characters from game to game it would make sense but that is not the case because each game will have a new protagonist. The choices the previous character made would have little impact on the new protagonist.

I just said they could, not that ther must be canon.

In the end, this is Bioware we are talking about, and they will do what they think is best, not what we players want from them.

plus if they set the canon, then the other games have no meaning and they should no be played if you choices mean nothing because they aren't canon. Stronger story invaldates player choice by stting it into "alternate universe":blush:

In the end, you cannot have players choice and strong story as both are mutually exclusive. plus I think Bioware will never admit Save imports in DA is a mistake, which would be the only thing that makes them remove it.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[sarcastictruths]

There are those who are against the save import because they believe that it takes away from the story, and while I admitted that this could be true. I have a hard time actually believing it. To me a good story is a good story, and the use of the save import don't add or take away from that. I know that some used the Fallout game as an example, saying that the lastest game was the best game, and this was because the save import was excluded.

How do you know this? It could have been a good game just because it was, and the save import or lack of had nothing to do with it. In my opinion that was probably the case. Then there is the case that 'good' is a matter of personally taste. I talked to a friend, and he hated that game. Was it because of the save imports? Would he liked it if they were included. No. He would have still hated the game.

I realize that some believe the save imports are pointless, that they only include brief cameos. I am curious on what more did you expect? Did you expect an entire act dedicated to a choice made in Dragon age: Origins, or at least a mission that lasted more then a few lines? If that is the case then yes the import system doesn't work. However, I never expected such things, and that is why the import works for me. I also have this belief that things not address in the second game would be addressed in later games. Delusional perhaps. I will still believe that.

Finally, there is the belief that the way bioware does the save import doesn't work. Alright, there are clearly flaws with it, but how can bioware fix these flaws if they scrap the entire concept all together. A violonist doesn't become a better player if he stops practicing because he not great. Practice makes perfect. That is my belief with the save import. I might be clinging to a false idea, that even with time the save import won't improve. There is also the possibilty that the techonolgy isn't ready for the save import, and if people expect every little detail to affect their game greatly then it won't be ready until AI are installed into the game that can rewrite the game according to every decision.

However, even if that is the case I will still stand by the save imports. It's not a matter of I need the save imports to be enjoyable for the game, through I do enjoy using the save imports to connect my games, to make it feel like its apart of an ongoing series. But, rather I have belief that if Bioware keeps the save import that same day they will be able to use them in such a way that makes all the players happy.

[draken-heart]

sarcastictruths wrote...

There are those who are against the save import because they believe that it takes away from the story, and while I admitted that this could be true. I have a hard time actually believing it. To me a good story is a good story, and the use of the save import don't add or take away from that. I know that some used the Fallout game as an example, saying that the lastest game was the best game, and this was because the save import was excluded.

How do you know this? It could have been a good game just because it was, and the save import or lack of had nothing to do with it. In my opinion that was probably the case. Then there is the case that 'good' is a matter of personally taste. I talked to a friend, and he hated that game. Was it because of the save imports? Would he liked it if they were included. No. He would have still hated the game.

I realize that some believe the save imports are pointless, that they only include brief cameos. I am curious on what more did you expect? Did you expect an entire act dedicated to a choice made in Dragon age: Origins, or at least a mission that lasted more then a few lines? If that is the case then yes the import system doesn't work. However, I never expected such things, and that is why the import works for me. I also have this belief that things not address in the second game would be addressed in later games. Delusional perhaps. I will still believe that.

Finally, there is the belief that the way bioware does the save import doesn't work. Alright, there are clearly flaws with it, but how can bioware fix these flaws if they scrap the entire concept all together. A violonist doesn't become a better player if he stops practicing because he not great. Practice makes perfect. That is my belief with the save import. I might be clinging to a false idea, that even with time the save import won't improve. There is also the possibilty that the techonolgy isn't ready for the save import, and if people expect every little detail to affect their game greatly then it won't be ready until AI are installed into the game that can rewrite the game according to every decision.

However, even if that is the case I will still stand by the save imports. It's not a matter of I need the save imports to be enjoyable for the game, through I do enjoy using the save imports to connect my games, to make it feel like its apart of an ongoing series. But, rather I have belief that if Bioware keeps the save import that same day they will be able to use them in such a way that makes all the players happy.

Bolded is exactly what imports are about. Imagine if ME3 set canon. It would invalidate the entire first two game and creat more outcry than is in this thread or about Leliana, who was alive because Bioware made her a seeker not because of Exiled prince, play without it and she is there at the end.

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

There are those who are against the save import because they believe that it takes away from the story, and while I admitted that this could be true. I have a hard time actually believing it. To me a good story is a good story, and the use of the save import don't add or take away from that. I know that some used the Fallout game as an example, saying that the lastest game was the best game, and this was because the save import was excluded.

How do you know this? It could have been a good game just because it was, and the save import or lack of had nothing to do with it. In my opinion that was probably the case. Then there is the case that 'good' is a matter of personally taste. I talked to a friend, and he hated that game. Was it because of the save imports? Would he liked it if they were included. No. He would have still hated the game.

I realize that some believe the save imports are pointless, that they only include brief cameos. I am curious on what more did you expect? Did you expect an entire act dedicated to a choice made in Dragon age: Origins, or at least a mission that lasted more then a few lines? If that is the case then yes the import system doesn't work. However, I never expected such things, and that is why the import works for me. I also have this belief that things not address in the second game would be addressed in later games. Delusional perhaps. I will still believe that.

Finally, there is the belief that the way bioware does the save import doesn't work. Alright, there are clearly flaws with it, but how can bioware fix these flaws if they scrap the entire concept all together. A violonist doesn't become a better player if he stops practicing because he not great. Practice makes perfect. That is my belief with the save import. I might be clinging to a false idea, that even with time the save import won't improve. There is also the possibilty that the techonolgy isn't ready for the save import, and if people expect every little detail to affect their game greatly then it won't be ready until AI are installed into the game that can rewrite the game according to every decision.

However, even if that is the case I will still stand by the save imports. It's not a matter of I need the save imports to be enjoyable for the game, through I do enjoy using the save imports to connect my games, to make it feel like its apart of an ongoing series. But, rather I have belief that if Bioware keeps the save import that same day they will be able to use them in such a way that makes all the players happy.

Bolded is exactly what imports are about. Imagine if ME3 set canon. It would invalidate the entire first two game and creat more outcry than is in this thread or about Leliana, who was alive because Bioware made her a seeker not because of Exiled prince, play without it and she is there at the end.

You know I didn't give it much thought when people said Leliana showed up in the Exiled prince. You are right she would be there even without the Exiled prince. My first playthrough, and second and third were without that DLC. Mind you it was with the same character. I was trying to get my friendship maxed out on all the characters, and was having a difficult time getting Aveline and Isabela. I finally figured it out. Anyway, Lelianna was at the end with or without the Exiled prince.

[Madeline McQueen]

In my opinion, importing your previous games to the next is one of the best parts! It's one of the reasons why I'm hooked on the game. Get rid of that and it's like any old normal game. This is one of the good features that make this game unique, special and excellent in its own way.

[NedPepper]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

To continue to see Merrill grow as a character?

Of course. But I don't want to see her growth begin at a point where some jerk made her feel like what happened with her clan was her fault. I would rather have Merrill be an extremely minor cameo or even never see her again than have her be a major character who got the wrong character development last game because someone decided they didn't like save imports.

Part of making something canon is combining different aspects of the choices made with Merrill.  But that's beside the point.  I was just listing characters.  I just happen to like Merrill.  That's my own bias.  Bioware can bring back whoever they want. 

Truthfully, Merrill's story is probably done, even though it doesn't FEEL like it had any resolution.

But again, I'll go with their canon.  Forget Merrill for a second.  Merrill is so Hawke-centric, as were many characters in DA 2, that it'll be a challenge regardless.  Let's go back to, say, Sten.  Sten is the Arishok in the comics.  It's a great move.  It's a natural story progression. 

Having this appear as canon, regardless of whether someone wants to argue that they left him in a cage to rot and be eaten by darkspawn, is just a good idea.  People liked Sten.  We wonder what happened to him.  He's the Arishok.  I  don'y want to just see it in a comic book as Gaider's alternate canon.   I want to see him in this role in Dragon Age 3.  I want it to be canon, because it just WORKS.  To not do it is a waste of huge potential, especially just for the sake of the silly save import.

[sarcastictruths]

Madeline McQueen wrote...

In my opinion, importing your previous games to the next is one of the best parts! It's one of the reasons why I'm hooked on the game. Get rid of that and it's like any old normal game. This is one of the good features that make this game unique, special and excellent in its own way.

I know what you mean. When I first heard about the save import. I was like wow that is a cool idea, and I still have that belief.

[Archyyy]

Completely disagree. I dont want bioware ruining my warden or even my hawke (it was still my hawke despite often doing and saying things i really didnt mean him to). If there are no save imports the choice if they write a canon version of each character (hated seeing revan and the exile being something else than what I intended them to be in swtor) or have them disappear. First is worse than the second but both are bad.

Stick with save imports. They establish continuity and I get to see the world and characters shaped through the choices I made.

Modifié par Archyyy, 28 octobre 2012 - 07:52 .

[SirGladiator]

Obviously Imports are one of the best parts of any Bioware game, its one of the major things their games are known for, that choices matter, and they carry over from one game to the next. Obviously, if the rumors are true, they're going to have to do something for the console players who will be playing DA3 on a whole new console and thus not able to import their saves, and I'm sure they can handle that without too much difficulty, but for the rest of us, I definitely look forward to importing my decisions from the first two games into the third, and the fourth, and so on. Certainly assuming that DA3 is one of the very first games on the next-gen consoles, DA3's decisions should be the most important yet for carrying over, because it will be a whole new beginning in a way. Importing is always awesome, and hopefully DA3 will be the best game yet for it.

[Wozearly]

Calob wrote...

I would defintley rather have my own unique story than a stand alone. Thats why Bioware has been successful and unique. Actually, more RPGs should follow in Mass Effect and Dragon Age's footsteps for importing saves, makes the experience a whole lot better.

Aye...but then to get that value, you actually have to recognise the player's choices when allowing an import.

Which is where the unexplained Leliana and Anders controversies causes damage, because it waves in your face that the decisions you made don't matter, unless they happen to fit with the story Bioware wants to tell.

DA:O didn't help itself by letting you kill off so many of your companions, but if the desire was to keep canon intact then the starting point should have been that cameos would only happen if that character was alive at the end of DA:O, meaning that quest would be missing or another character in their place. My guess is that the general rush-out-the-door feel to DA2 knocked that on the head.

[draken-heart]

In my opinion, people who argue against save imports seem to forget that If bioware made a set canon, there "world" would be made a "alternate universe" or invaldating your choices saying "we make the canon, you choose your alternate world." that or people seem to think that the story is all the game would have for it.

let's look at Skyrim, which Bioware is looking into: Syrim has a great gameplay aspect with using "dragon magic" aka Shouting, but the story is not exactly different from the basic hero has destiny, hero fights evil dragon to face destiny. You people focus on the story too much, it's just one part of the game.

[draken-heart]

nedpepper wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

To continue to see Merrill grow as a character?

Of course. But I don't want to see her growth begin at a point where some jerk made her feel like what happened with her clan was her fault. I would rather have Merrill be an extremely minor cameo or even never see her again than have her be a major character who got the wrong character development last game because someone decided they didn't like save imports.

Part of making something canon is combining different aspects of the choices made with Merrill.  But that's beside the point.  I was just listing characters.  I just happen to like Merrill.  That's my own bias.  Bioware can bring back whoever they want. 

Truthfully, Merrill's story is probably done, even though it doesn't FEEL like it had any resolution.

But again, I'll go with their canon.  Forget Merrill for a second.  Merrill is so Hawke-centric, as were many characters in DA 2, that it'll be a challenge regardless.  Let's go back to, say, Sten.  Sten is the Arishok in the comics.  It's a great move.  It's a natural story progression. 

Having this appear as canon, regardless of whether someone wants to argue that they left him in a cage to rot and be eaten by darkspawn, is just a good idea.  People liked Sten.  We wonder what happened to him.  He's the Arishok.  I  don'y want to just see it in a comic book as Gaider's alternate canon.   I want to see him in this role in Dragon Age 3.  I want it to be canon, because it just WORKS.  To not do it is a waste of huge potential, especially just for the sake of the silly save import.

As someone who never read the comics, this would not mean a thing as I never knew that Sten was the arishok until it was mentioned. They could do it, but some-most people would not recognize him as sten until it gets mentioned.

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 12:53 .

[Pzykozis]

draken-heart wrote...

In my opinion, people who argue against save imports seem to forget that If bioware made a set canon, there "world" would be made a "alternate universe" or invaldating your choices saying "we make the canon, you choose your alternate world." that or people seem to think that the story is all the game would have for it.

let's look at Skyrim, which Bioware is looking into: Syrim has a great gameplay aspect with using "dragon magic" aka Shouting, but the story is not exactly different from the basic hero has destiny, hero fights evil dragon to face destiny. You people focus on the story too much, it's just one part of the game.

I wouldn't really care, Dawn of War whilst not a story heavy game has canonical space marine campaigns but the Chaos / Ork / Imperial Guard ones are the most fun. Just because in a later game they ignore the fact that I played X army and completed the game X way doesn't demean or otherwise take away from the fun I got from the previous game.

The point is I'd rather have a lot more fun in DA3 with wide ranging choices that have impact in that game and then have DA4 chosen by the writers as what they see to be the most interesting world state and have them go from there again to have more interesting wide ranging choices on that, than have nudges and winks to previous games which have no real bearing on anything whilst also sacrificing the ability for a choice to go off the rails in the game. Alternative universes within resource scope allows choices to have some incredible consequences, instead of being so heavily constrained to stop things going crazy when imported.

Meh.

[Sgt Reed 24]

rapscallioness wrote...

Besides a throwaway line, or two, and the occasional cameo. It had absolutely no impact on our game. None.
 

And I believe that is the point of the OP.

You basically get nothing from these imports b/c they can't cater the game to every person's decisions from the last game. So you end up with everything turning out the same (hello ME3 ending) no matter what you chose during the games. 

He's saying we could all have choices that have greater impact during the game b/c not having an import frees the writers to go crazy b/c they don't have to worry about how the decisions will import. 

I think I can agree with the OP after the ME3 crap. 

I'd prefer my choices to actually matter during the game rather than waiting for the consequences in subsequent games and getting nothing. 

[draken-heart]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Besides a throwaway line, or two, and the occasional cameo. It had absolutely no impact on our game. None.
 

And I believe that is the point of the OP.

You basically get nothing from these imports b/c they can't cater the game to every person's decisions from the last game. So you end up with everything turning out the same (hello ME3 ending) no matter what you chose during the games. 

He's saying we could all have choices that have greater impact during the game b/c not having an import frees the writers to go crazy b/c they don't have to worry about how the decisions will import. 

I think I can agree with the OP after the ME3 crap. 

I'd prefer my choices to actually matter during the game rather than waiting for the consequences in subsequent games and getting nothing. 

Yet it invaldates player choice, as in makes the choices mean nothing because it places canon into the hands of the devs, who may not know what the majority want because they are quiet, sucking up whatever bioware throws at them.

As I said before, give me control of the information about the old protagonist and I will be fine. ME 2 did it if you do not import, making your shepard the one who made the decision, why not let us decide which warden or Hawke made the decision? other than the fact that it means nothing to the plot and thus should be canonized, if it means nothing then why make it a canon? In the end, Bioware has no Idea how I want the warden or Hawke, why choose for me who made what decision.

Which leads to the conundrum that gave us save imports, Stronger story or player choice?

Modifié par draken-heart, 28 octobre 2012 - 07:37 .

[draken-heart]

If they were to have a canon story, then they need this:

Bhelen king of Orzamar
Alistair rules Ferelden with Anora
Dark Ritual NOT performed and Loghain sacrificed to kill Archdemon.

Simple and I don't care about what you guys want. /sarcasm

[sarcastictruths]

draken-heart wrote...

Yet it invaldates player choice, as in makes the choices mean nothing because it places canon into the hands of the devs, who may not know what the majority want because they are quiet, sucking up whatever bioware throws at them.

As I said before, give me control of the information about the old protagonist and I will be fine. ME 2 did it if you do not import, making your shepard the one who made the decision, why not let us decide which warden or Hawke made the decision? other than the fact that it means nothing to the plot and thus should be canonized, if it means nothing then why make it a canon? In the end, Bioware has no Idea how I want the warden or Hawke, why choose for me who made what decision.

Which leads to the conundrum that gave us save imports, Stronger story or player choice?

Those opposed to the save import will probably say something along the lines that the save imports gives neither a stronger story or incorparate the player choices in a meaningful manner. They will say that if the save import are removed then the writers will have more time to create a great story, a story that will be far superior to the story that they would create if they have to worry about the save import, because they wouldn't have to worry about how to make all those decisions people could make in the previous games.

I am wondering if this is true then couldn't the same thing be said about choices period. Anytime, you have a game where player can picked between multiple choices then you have the issue of how those choices would affect the game, and if the save imports takes away from the storyline then wouldn't allowing players to have choices in a game period take away from the storyline as well. So, the best storylines will be created in games where everything is decided by the creators and not the player.

We have games in which that is exactly what happens. I like those games. Love them even. But, I don't think that the storylines in these games are superior to the ones where the player gets to make decisions for.

Modifié par sarcastictruths, 28 octobre 2012 - 08:26 .

[draken-heart]

sarcastictruths wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Yet it invaldates player choice, as in makes the choices mean nothing because it places canon into the hands of the devs, who may not know what the majority want because they are quiet, sucking up whatever bioware throws at them.

As I said before, give me control of the information about the old protagonist and I will be fine. ME 2 did it if you do not import, making your shepard the one who made the decision, why not let us decide which warden or Hawke made the decision? other than the fact that it means nothing to the plot and thus should be canonized, if it means nothing then why make it a canon? In the end, Bioware has no Idea how I want the warden or Hawke, why choose for me who made what decision.

Which leads to the conundrum that gave us save imports, Stronger story or player choice?

Those opposed to the save import will probably say something along the lines that the save imports gives neither a stronger story or incorparate the player choices in a meaningful manner. They will say that if the save import are removed then the writers will have more time to create a great story, a story that will be far superior to the story that they would create if they have to worry about the save import, because they wouldn't have to worry about how to make all those decisions people could make in the previous games.

I am wondering if this is true then couldn't the same thing be said about choices period. Anytime, you have a game where player can picked between multiple choices then you have the issue of how those choices would affect the game, and if the save imports takes away from the storyline then wouldn't allowing players to have choices in a game period take away from the storyline as well. So, the best storylines will be created in games where everything is decided by the creators and not the player.

We have games in which that is exactly what happens. I like those games. Love them even. But, I don't think that the storylines in these games are superior to the ones where the player gets to make decisions for.

Bold is for truth. Let's see people against Save imports argue this.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

If they were to have a canon story, then they need this:

Bhelen king of Orzamar
Alistair rules Ferelden with Anora
Dark Ritual NOT performed and Loghain sacrificed to kill Archdemon.

Simple and I don't care about what you guys want. /sarcasm

Which would be fine with me, because now Bioware would not have to waste resources on writing a quest for the OBG. The warden is alive and can appear in other games in the series. Bhelen as king means that he is seen as a tyrant by some and beloved by the casteless which sets up a whole other sroey to tell. 

I would add that Anders is alive and leading the mage rebellion. Sebastian has gone back to Starkhaven and has began preparations to build an army to hunt down Anders and side with the templars aganist the mage rebellion for revenge.

No sarcasm intended.If it frees the developers to write the stories. I can get behind your suggestions.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

If they were to have a canon story, then they need this:

Bhelen king of Orzamar
Alistair rules Ferelden with Anora
Dark Ritual NOT performed and Loghain sacrificed to kill Archdemon.

Simple and I don't care about what you guys want. /sarcasm

Which would be fine with me, because now Bioware would not have to waste resources on writing a quest for the OBG. The warden is alive and can appear in other games in the series. Bhelen as king means that he is seen as a tyrant by some and beloved by the casteless which sets up a whole other sroey to tell. 

I would add that Anders is alive and leading the mage rebellion. Sebastian has gone back to Starkhaven and has began preparations to build an army to hunt down Anders and side with the templars aganist the mage rebellion for revenge.

No sarcasm intended.If it frees the developers to write the stories. I can get behind your suggestions.

Or they could say the wardens tried to drag him to the warden HQ in Anderfels and a fight broke out in which he was killed.

And I was being sarcastic throughout the whole post,  I did not mean any of it, Plus I always said, give me control over the information of the warden/Hawke*, and they deal with the choices themselves for all I care.

(*=and romance)

[sarcastictruths]

Realmzmaster wrote...


Which would be fine with me, because now Bioware would not have to waste resources on writing a quest for the OBG. The warden is alive and can appear in other games in the series. Bhelen as king means that he is seen as a tyrant by some and beloved by the casteless which sets up a whole other sroey to tell. 

I would add that Anders is alive and leading the mage rebellion. Sebastian has gone back to Starkhaven and has began preparations to build an army to hunt down Anders and side with the templars aganist the mage rebellion for revenge.

No sarcasm intended.If it frees the developers to write the stories. I can get behind your suggestions.

Bioware should make Anders alive period even with the save import, and no matter what decisions the player make in Dragon Age 2. Also, in three you should have the option to kill him, and in the next game ( Dragon age 4) he should be alive again. And it should be that way for every game afterwards until the end of the Dragon age series.

It will be like the Bioware team going ' No, matter how hard you try Anders will never die' and then bursting into evil laughter.

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

sarcastictruths wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Yet it invaldates player choice, as in makes the choices mean nothing because it places canon into the hands of the devs, who may not know what the majority want because they are quiet, sucking up whatever bioware throws at them.

As I said before, give me control of the information about the old protagonist and I will be fine. ME 2 did it if you do not import, making your shepard the one who made the decision, why not let us decide which warden or Hawke made the decision? other than the fact that it means nothing to the plot and thus should be canonized, if it means nothing then why make it a canon? In the end, Bioware has no Idea how I want the warden or Hawke, why choose for me who made what decision.

Which leads to the conundrum that gave us save imports, Stronger story or player choice?

Those opposed to the save import will probably say something along the lines that the save imports gives neither a stronger story or incorparate the player choices in a meaningful manner. They will say that if the save import are removed then the writers will have more time to create a great story, a story that will be far superior to the story that they would create if they have to worry about the save import, because they wouldn't have to worry about how to make all those decisions people could make in the previous games.

I am wondering if this is true then couldn't the same thing be said about choices period. Anytime, you have a game where player can picked between multiple choices then you have the issue of how those choices would affect the game, and if the save imports takes away from the storyline then wouldn't allowing players to have choices in a game period take away from the storyline as well. So, the best storylines will be created in games where everything is decided by the creators and not the player.

We have games in which that is exactly what happens. I like those games. Love them even. But, I don't think that the storylines in these games are superior to the ones where the player gets to make decisions for.

Bold is for truth. Let's see people against Save imports argue this.

The choices in game have aready been taken into account and are built into the story with the consequences already thought out. The story is stronger because the developer  will resolve those choices in the game. There will nothing left dangling that cause problems with a subsequent game. The developer already knowshow those choices will conclude.

For example as stated before what can you do with the story of the OGB. Nothing!, because half the population did not do the DR. So it remains a story untold. Or if Anders is dead how can the writers write a story of about Anders as a leader of the mage rebellion. Simply they cannot unless they invalidate a player choice and bring him back to life like they did Leliana.

Contrast that with Isabela coming or not coming back with the tome. That issue resolves itself in game and all the possible choices are account for. including if you give her to the Arishok. Hawke finds out she escapes. The same with Fenris if Hawke gives him up. Danarius sends a letter to Hawke stating that Fenris is back to his old compliant self now that his memories have been removed. Otherwise Fenris is free and Danarius is dead.

The choice resolves itself in game. That is why I say a stronger story can be written without the save import.